Flathead V8

Lorenz · 23-06-2015, 09:45 PM

Just wanted to pick everyones brains about their thoughts of the later flathead V8's (1949-1954) and what options are for them.
My '53 Ford hasn't been registered since 1986 and the flathead only has 70k miles from new. It has a stuck valve and I want to use my car regularly and reliably so wanted to see what everyones experiences are with the flatty.
My options are to either
(a) just fix the stuck valve and do the bare minimum to get it running
(b) get a local shop here in WA to go through the flathead and do a full rebuild, which can get pretty expensive for marginal performance
(c) get myself a freshly built flathead out of the States (about $6k for a nice one)
(d) do a conversion to a later model Ford motor and driveline. I am thinking XR6 turbo potentially or even the American 5.4's which are cheap and probably easy to find an off the shelf conversion.

Anyways, just wanted to pick everyones brain and see what the brains trust thinks. This is my first flathead.

Cheers!

66FAIRLANE · 23-06-2015, 10:44 PM

There's a guy here near Adelaide that does some pretty cool flatty stuff. Might be worth a call.

http://www.flatattackracing.com/

XR Martin · 23-06-2015, 10:57 PM

5.4s are bloody heavy things, and are as big as a 460 big block.

2011G6E · 23-06-2015, 11:00 PM

For gods sake, keep the flathead!!!!

Pop the bonnet, modern running gear or a Clevo or something..."Oh...that's nice...just like a hundred others..."
Pop bonnet, nicely modded trad flathead..."Holy crap, come have a look at this thing!".

There's still a staggeringly huge amount of speed equipment for the old girls, and they can look absolutely amazing done up to show standard. The mods are really only limited to your bank balance and imagination.

Franco Cozzo · 23-06-2015, 11:14 PM

I reckon go something like an L98 from the VE SS Commodore:

http://www.holmart.com.au/online/prod1567.htm

Its light weight and small package, engine management can be done by this:

http://www.msdperformance.com/AtomicEFI/Atomic_LS.aspx

It self tunes and is in an easy to setup package, no messy wiring to deal with etc. The engine is very common here in Australia and in the USA, so its not like no one would know what it is.

Its probably going to be easier (and probably cheaper) to get the original engine done up though.

I'm a fan of modern engines in older cars, not a fan of ye olde pre efi stuff really, but I guess something like the flathead, its been around for a bazillion years, and there is a huge following there so someone could knock you up something nice anyway with what you already have.

Surely with the following in the states that the flathead has, they could knock you up something in the 150-200kw range?

**SSD-85** · 23-06-2015, 11:19 PM

Be a rebel & rebuild the Flattie!

Too many good cars out there ruined with another boring crate motor.

2011G6E · 23-06-2015, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSD-85

Be a rebel & rebuild the Flattie!

Too many good cars out there ruined with another boring crate motor.

Glad it's not just me...
A little like the people I've talked to about my WB ute with the worked 253...so many just say excitedly "Throw a Gen III in it!!!".
Sorry...as the sticker on the back window says, "Steel body, chrome bumpers, cast iron engine...just as nature intended"...

Every man and his dog throws crate engines in old metal...much more interesting and memorable to do the flatty...

**ebxr8240** · 24-06-2015, 12:27 AM

Add some alloy heads to it .. Tidy up ports in the block..
Elect ignition .. NICE ..

timeout · 24-06-2015, 01:29 AM

Stick with the side valve everyone does a chef conversion...

You will need to count the head studs and find what version the motor is. Flat attack racing is a good start also look at;

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ifications.htm

You will need a specific valve tool a normal ohv won't reach.

Look into a dual
Carb manifold, msd distributor, alloy heads and a decent cam.

mik · 24-06-2015, 02:43 AM

I like the flathead , look great done up ,sound great,
but for ease of getting a more power and more easily to aquire and abundant parts a little Windsor sounds like an easier path to nirvana.

XR398BOSS · 24-06-2015, 05:29 AM

Another vote for the flathead, especially if it's the original engine.

Moby Vic · 24-06-2015, 07:06 AM

Flatheads have a very distinctive growl, also.

rex351 · 24-06-2015, 07:47 AM

Stay with the flathead, like others have said, do heads, ports, cam, carb and electronic ignition and it will go great. My old man's 56 cusso needed an engine rebuild and we nearly went the Cleveland route but decided to keep the y block it was born with.

You Yangs · 24-06-2015, 08:19 AM

Keep the Flathead, do the bare minimum to get it running then look into modern ignition and a Triple Stromberg Carbie setup, some nice pipes and she will sound AWESOME.

39ClevoUte · 24-06-2015, 09:13 AM

Keeping the Flathead would be nice.
Whilst they will keep going in a low performance mode for many years quiet often the blocks are stuffed and often unrepairable. Not unusual for guys to buy 4 or 5 before finding a good block.
Go with an engine builder that is known for doing Flatheads, not can do a Flathead.
A build with quality parts, performance and some nice bits would be around $13k, and will see you out.

Lorenz · 24-06-2015, 10:49 AM

Awesome - good to see that there is some love for the flatty on here. I am definitely more inclined to keep it I suppose it is just a matter of the economics of it.
Does anyone have any leads on someone that is familiar and experienced with the flatheads? Mine is a 239 cube motor or 8BA.
I have spoken with my guys I typically use for my motors and they said sure they can rebuild it but I would prefer to use someone who does flatheads regularly and knows all the old techniques and secrets preferably.
Secondly, if anyone out there has had a flatty built can you chime in with what it cost and to what spec/level it was built?
I have heard that they are pretty pricey to have built. I am just after a mild combo and need to weigh up if I should go with a pro built flathead from the States as a complete motor for about $6k (ally heads, Merc cam,
Dual carbs etc) or get mine built here. I have a feeling Aussies engine builders are going to be way off that mark though.
I have also been looking into the possibility of switching to a 4150 style intake and running a self tuning EFI from FAST, Holley or MSD who all have good kits for pretty good prices.

LyleXR8 · 24-06-2015, 12:47 PM

6k is hard to turn down for any brand of V8 engine, the extra money saved can get a new intake with triple carbs!!!!

timeout · 24-06-2015, 01:58 PM

Read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/188408...8276BK3MERT74D

Sure your not going to get Miami or Chev performance however these things are/were used for salt flat racing and speed records. + ski boats back in the day.

They are not that mystical once you pull one apart and yes they do sound great.

Yes they are different but work working with for a history lesson.
Worth a mention you will bend a 500kg engine lifter with one.

The 8ba's have normal bearings where the early ones had floating mains.

mik · 24-06-2015, 02:06 PM

i found a nice little article on the history and bit of hot rodding the flattie, it also has a reference to an australian company that made some bits for the flattie.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...athead-engine/

Vesper Martini · 24-06-2015, 02:38 PM

I don't know a lot about flatheads, but I would keep it.

They sound good, and its not all about speed when your looking at a 53 ford.

forget the XR6T engine they are huge, and that engine bay looks too small.

39ClevoUte · 24-06-2015, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timeout

Read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/188408...8276BK3MERT74D

Sure your not going to get Miami or Chev performance however these things are/were used for salt flat racing and speed records. + ski boats back in the day.

They are not that mystical once you pull one apart and yes they do sound great.

Yes they are different but work working with for a history lesson.
Worth a mention you will bend a 500kg engine lifter with one.

The 8ba's have normal bearings where the early ones had floating mains.

Agree they run Salt Flat and they blow up occasionally. Same with any engine, you can make it into a dragster but how long will it last?
If this guy wants a driver, getting 3 or 4 runs on the salt flats is not worth a thing.
Don't get me wrong I reckon a good reco flattie is good, but we need to stick to usage and compare costs against usage and required life.
Modern engines can do 100 of thousands of ks on highways at high rev and high power and torque, these old engines never had to cope with that. As long as your happy with that and understand what you have and what it can do that is all good. If you want a hot rod or custom to drive all over Australia to go to runs and shows then maybe a sidey is not a great idea. If you are going to drive 20ks every weekend to a local show and shine, swap meet or malt shop. then go for it.
Our man really needs to say what his usage will be???????

Stefan · 24-06-2015, 08:39 PM

How F'ing cool is that flattie...

HMMM I could junk the Boss 302 from my BF and install a flattie...how cool would that be.

The Yeti · 24-06-2015, 09:10 PM

As a flatty owner I say keep it a flatty, you have to own one to truly appreciate one

Lorenz · 24-06-2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37Clevo

Agree they run Salt Flat and they blow up occasionally. Same with any engine, you can make it into a dragster but how long will it last?
If this guy wants a driver, getting 3 or 4 runs on the salt flats is not worth a thing.
Don't get me wrong I reckon a good reco flattie is good, but we need to stick to usage and compare costs against usage and required life.
Modern engines can do 100 of thousands of ks on highways at high rev and high power and torque, these old engines never had to cope with that. As long as your happy with that and understand what you have and what it can do that is all good. If you want a hot rod or custom to drive all over Australia to go to runs and shows then maybe a sidey is not a great idea. If you are going to drive 20ks every weekend to a local show and shine, swap meet or malt shop. then go for it.
Our man really needs to say what his usage will be???????

Thanks everyone for chiming in, always good to get everyones opinion.
Important question here is what I am going to use the car for - probably going to get a few laughs but here it is haha

I am going to go through it completely and turn it into a bit of a hot rod camper so I can hit the road with my girl. I have no doubt that a properly built flathead can run reliably and I still want it to look cool obviously.
I am interested in replacing the Stromberg 97 carb with a self tuning EFI setup though, might make a nice difference in economy and drivability..
Anyway, I will just tear into the flatty and hopefully it is rebuildable.

Moby Vic · 24-06-2015, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timeout

Read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/188408...8276BK3MERT74D

Good book. You may have noticed my recent post about the author's death.

Vesper Martini · 25-06-2015, 12:19 PM

Now that I've seen it, I'm going to recommend putting a Toyota v8 diesel in it.
1VD-FTV
looks like it will be mixing it with the Landcruisers in the Camping Grounds.

and they can sound good too

OzJavelin · 25-06-2015, 01:34 PM

My uncle has an A-roadster with stock 8BA flatty (probably same as yours) in it. Even in stock form flatheads had a great note ...

Keep the ORIGINAL flathead. $6K is likely overkill for a mild rebuild of it. More than likely you could unstick the valve and it would go well for a long time to come. Remember those things powered countless military vehicles, stationary engines, etc. They aren't some Toyota engine!

snowcone · 26-06-2015, 05:22 PM

I would ditch the whole back end and make it a tray back hotrod.
Leave the flattie alone unless you want to dress it up a bit with Offie heads etc.
There are twin carby manifolds around but it is not easy tuning those old Strombergs in pairs or triples

Franco Cozzo · 27-06-2015, 12:06 PM

Atomic EFI looks the goods vs the others if you want to run one of those self tuning EFI setups that look like carbies.

cowboy · 28-06-2015, 12:37 AM

Flatty all the way, they sound amazing. I'm running one in my 49 ford pickup. Not massive power but they keep going and going and going. Where are you located, my engine guy does one or two a week generally.

Start by pulling the heads and intake, see if it's cracked between the valve pockets and pots which is quite common in these, then make a decision from there. If the bores look ok with no cracks or big lips then just free up the valves, clean out the sump and fire it up, it might surprise you. If it comes to a full rebuild then the motor from the states will likely be cheaper, they are pricey to rebuild, particularly once you start buying speed gear for it.

Oh yeah, and a pretronix ignition conversion works wonders on them too.