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#1 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,087
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Growing up I could always remember either the falcon or the commodore at the top of the sales charts. Every motor/wheels magazine was a falcon vs commodore shoot out. The Australian public loved them and there was daylight to anything else.
But somewhere along the way it all went out the window? Now from 2016 falcon will be gone and commodore likely to go too. It seems no one wants them anymore? But where did it all go so wrong? Have the cars grown up in size too much? Too much competitive pressure from other car makers? Needs of the common family changed? Fuel prices and living costs? Requirement to have baby seats in cars? A particular model was released? Government departments started buying other cars?? Australian industry couldn't keep pace with other nations? What's your rationale for when things started to go horribly wrong and lead the falcodore to demise? When the war is over come 2016, Do we simply down tools and walk away? pick another car manufacturer? This community and the ls1 community become largely extinct? What happened from what seemed like market domination to extinction? Last edited by HULK_I6T; 10-12-2013 at 12:20 AM. |
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#3 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
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SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
I f people stop buying foreign cars then the problem is fixed. If people don't buy second hand foreign cars then people wont buy new because they have no resale value. If people elected a decent government with balls .....then the problems fixed. Don't blame the government because THE PEOPLE ELCTED IT Simply the only problem with Australia going down the ****** shoot is Australians
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#4 | |||
Solution Was Boost 4?, 6 & 8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 23,624
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Quote:
Picking another manufacturer means your going to buy an overseas car which will be our only option, unless you want a Camry and there still here in 2016.
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AUTOTECH TUNED EDELEBROCK CHARGED 2017 GT Mustang Plenty of RWKW Last edited by SpoolMan; 10-12-2013 at 02:05 AM. |
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#5 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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I spent most of my life with falcon being an import anyway, so I guess it's not a big thing for me to cross shop other imports, but I can certainly see why for some its a bigger step to be looking at imports as the only option.
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#6 | ||
Racing improves the breed
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SE Melbourne
Posts: 3,981
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Hulk, people aren't buying large sedans and wagons anymore, plus there's so much more choice in the way of reliable, tech packed cheap imports.
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1970 Mini Cooper S Historic Group Nc Touring car 1964 Mini Cooper S Historic Group Nb Touring car Victorian Hill Climb Championship |
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#7 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 308
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Where did they go wrong?
It's a market shift where the majority of the buying public now want either an SUV or a "city car", for lots of good reasons. Mainly something different as the need for larger sedans has faded due to smaller family structures and changed motoring behaviour - most now fly interstate rather than drive, as it's cheaper and quicker, so who needs a capable long-distance sedan? etc etc. But, one of the BIG reasons is that the newly dominant SUV's and city cars are CHEAP, and loaded with gadgets. Gone are the days when a car was purchased for comfortable travel - now it's more important to have double-overhead-transmogrifying-electron drive scuff plates. Simply put, the world has changed. But I still absolutely love the way my XR6 Turbo eats country miles!! Even after 900km you step out fresh-as. P |
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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A market shift ? .......................if supremely focused japanese company like Toyota cant build and make a corolla or an aurion for a profit in Australia without exporting to keep them going (and that is debateable without govco funding)................ I'd say it is not just a ford/holden/commy /falcon problem, this is an industry wide cost problem...... and not only car maker problem on our little ozzy rock.
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#9 | ||
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
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This community is safe- Ford's future in this country is looking bright. The Mustang arrival is going to kickstart a new wave of enthusiasm that the brand hasn't seen in many years. Add that to all of the new global Ford products that we'll receive, things are looking good.
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#10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,040
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There's a big difference between oohhs and aahhs at a motor show, or likes on a FB page, and people actually opening their wallet. What good is a big 2-door to the average person?
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#11 | ||
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
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I wasn't talking about sales, just enthusiasm for the brand. If it gets people back into Ford showrooms, it's done its job.
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#12 | ||
Performance moderator
![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Clair..N.S.W
Posts: 14,875
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Economy of scale , eventually they got too expensive to make here ! Much like our clothing industry 20 years ago. The cost per item is just too expensive now that thers a world market. Freight is way cheaper. Etc etc
Our fuel is imported now for much the same reasons. One big central plant is cheaper than 100's around the world .. Where they are talking 100's of millions not 1000's !
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Real cars are not driven by front wheels,real cars lift them!!... BABYS ARE BOTTLE FED, REAL MEN GET BLOWN. Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! Dart 330ci block turbo black pearl EBXR8 482 rwkw.. Daily driver GTE FG.. Projects http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=107711 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8+turbo&page=4 |
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#13 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Kevin and Melinda no longer need one "do all" car in the family, Kev has his Hilux as a work hack and to tow the boat to the water on the weekend. Melinda has a Mazda 3 as the run about, dropping Michal at McDonald's for work, and teacher her sister to drive.
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#14 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Western Sydney
Posts: 746
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I think both Holden and Ford too the buying public for granted for too long. They were giving the people what they think we should have rather than giving us what we wanted in the Falcon and Commodore
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2001 Laser KQ SR 2004 BA Fairmont Ghia 2000 AUII Fairmont 1995 EF Fairmont - Tickford Enhanced 1980 ZL Fairlane in Brambles red |
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#15 | ||
Supercharged Mang-mobile
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Behind the wheel
Posts: 1,792
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Call me stubborn but regardless of how it all goes down, I'll never buy a damn camry!
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09/00 VX HSV XU6 Build #0001 of 0171 http://fordforums.com.au/showthread....09#post5571209 -- Best E/T: |14.982 @92.12mph | R/T:0.013 | 60' 2.213| 330: 6.283 | 1/8: 9.624 @ 73.17mph | 1000: 12.529 | 25Deg, N/A Hum, 1010mb | Willowbank Raceway 7/12/16 Tickford EL Falcon XR6 RIP ![]() -- Factory Manual -- Best E/T: |14.991 @ 92.71mph | R/T: 0.607 | 60': 2.215 | 660': 9.665 |13Deg, 86%H, 1024mb, 184RA @ Willowbank Raceway |
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#17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Parkdale, Vic
Posts: 1,016
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Free trade agreement is predominantly to blame. Our government has spent the last 20 years protecting the workers of Thailand and South East Asia at the expense of our own.
The car makers are also to blame. When the Laser was made in Brisbane it was a best seller, and as it happens was the way of the future. Ford discarded it when it became mediocre, and should have developed it and continued it. Imagine now in 2013 a Mazda 3 based Laser, being made here. Even so, it would only be 3000 units per month because the market is so diluted across so many makes and models now. 30 years ago, there was only about ten choices. Now there's 70 odd.
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"You can't fight stupid people - there's just too many of them" |
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#18 | |||
was danny888
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 564
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Quote:
We live in a society where we are keeping up with the Kardashians, not the Joneses. Having a new Falcon or Cdore is not good enough. Having a 3 bedroom house is not good enough. Having a 50 inch tv is not good enough. etc etc etc
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#19 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Well they've fixed that come 2016.
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Daniel |
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#20 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
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This from a very intelligent and funny engineer I know at Bosch.
"I like my chosen profession, I like manufacturing, and I like cars. And I'd like to be able to keep making cars, as a country. But I can see it's not viable. I can see how difficult and hard many of us work to not even break even, unlike just about every one else I know in other engineering fields. There is simply no profit left. So what of the future? Luckily I don't have answer those questions and I have made the express professional choice to exclude myself from having to make hard choices, from having to lead. It's easier letting others do it if they want to... Coincidentally we had a round to redundancies yesterday, loosing 3 heads from the 30 odd in our eng dept - about 10%. I'm off to the PG this morning to plan the future of vehicle testing with our 1 remaining full time test driver/test coordinator. How long will we even keep this test capacity, whatever is left of it? Anyway, I will dodge the hard questions and just make the jokes. I'm off to find info about training to be a barista, and check the latest plasma screen catalogues. It's all about service industries and cheap imported plasma screens form here forward :-) "
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Trev (FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension) |
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#21 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,811
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Quote:
Last edited by superyob; 10-12-2013 at 10:02 AM. Reason: spelling error |
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#22 | ||
Long live the Falcon GT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,630
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What people seem to forget is that you are comparing a hugely different timeframe of when the Falcon/Commdore was sucessful, to today...
Let me take you back 15 years ago - when the Falcon and Commdore were selling quite well. I've selected two cars to compare to paint you a very blatantly obvious picture.... 1998 Ford AU Forte Petrol Sedan - RRP $29,990 1998 BMW E46 328i Petrol Sedan - RRP $86,800 There is a $56k difference between the two cars... or roughly 3 times the price... Also consider what your wage was in 1998, what your mortgage was in 1998 etc... NOW - Fast forward to today: 2013 Ford FGII XT Petrol Sedan - RRP $37,235 2013 BMW 328i Petrol Sedan - RRP $68,900 Now there is only $30k difference in it, or roughly less than HALF the price difference... So the Beemer is now $20k cheaper (20% cheaper), and is JAM packed with stuff (8spd Auto, way better fuel economy, etc etc etc) and the Falcon has INCREASED in price by $9k (25% more expensive)... Ok - so it's numbers and jargon etc... I know I know... but now think about it properly... The Falcon costs more (though I still reckon it's cheap for what you get), the BMW costs less (and is FULL of good bits), and the gap between the two is less than it has EVER been before... So, more people are taking the plunge, borrowing more, and buying European built cars. And that is just ONE example, I'm sure if you compared the relative Benz, Audi, VW, you'd see a similar trend... and I haven't even touched on the Jap cars that are better now than they've ever been in the past as well... So to answer the OP - when did the Falcon/Commodore lose it all?? Well they didn't really... Everyone else just caught up........
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: S.A.
Posts: 4,611
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Ford and Holden got lazy. They rested on past successes, customer loyalty and government hand outs.
Quote:
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The true danger only occurs when you take a potentially dangerous piece of machinery and place it in the hands of the most unpredictable species on the planet. Human behaviour, as history has catalogued, cannot account for what any persons actions may be, especially concerning their love of the motor vehicle. http://www.fireservicecollege.ac.uk ![]() |
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#25 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 888
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The falcon and commodore are the best they have ever been but the fact is big 4 door sedans aren't on as many shopping lists these days. Soccer mums drive 4wd's more than wagons, even sales reps seem to drive things like Klugers and Prado's now a domain the falcon and commodore owned.
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#26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gladstone Qld
Posts: 664
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In my opinion, the reason Falcons & commodores are no longer on top of the sales chart due to a few things.
Firstly perceptions of buyers have changed, this is mostly due to very good marketing by their imported counterparts & motoring journalists who seem to prefer foreign cars to our own, writing articles with such bias it would seem they were sponsored by an over seas manufacturer. People tend to believe the marketing hype and make choices accordingly. Secondly when Ford & Holden were on top they failed to recognise the threat from their foreign competitors because the were to busy fighting each other. As a result they both failed to move with the market for a long time. It wasn't until their sales really dropped off that they recognized the need for change. For ford this was when they released the Territory, for Holden it was the Cruze. Both these models were meant to plug a hole in the market, but by the time they were released the SUV & small car market was already flooded with imports. I think the government has had a part to play as well, firstly by removing import tariffs. This enabled the foreign car makers all the advantage they need to start with. Labour costs are much lower over seas, from this point Holden & Ford could never compete on price. Unlike much of the media I think the government supporting the local car industry has been a good thing. The money the put in is well spent when you take into account the number of people employed by the car industry & the benefit to the Australian economy. Sadly we will soon see many Australians effected by the job losses as Ford & Holden cease manufacturing here. |
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#27 | ||
Powered by Marshall
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,138
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There are lots of valid reasons above but the main one is that Ford, Holden and Toyota are GLOBAL organisations.
The result is, if you have an operation that is making sub par returns, move it to a region that will create acceptable returns. There is no point manufacturing in Australia for zero return when you can move the manufacturing to a cheaper cost country, get the return up to 10%, and still achieve the same turnover and increased profits in Australia by making it an import only operation. Its really basic stuff that's masked by a whole lot of emotive and misleading arguments. ROI people. ROI
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#28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,094
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World would be a better place if we all worked in salt mines and our pay was credited to Ford/Holden each week and we were "given" a new car every 3 years. Where can I sign a petition to change Australia ? -- I love it when somebody else tells me how to live my life. |
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#29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cairns FNQ
Posts: 602
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30 years ago the average bloke couldn't afford air travel, now it's cheaper to fly and hire a car than drive a nice comfortable 6 cylinder car.
Also, remember all the protests against globalisation? Turns out the protesters were right. We've entered into agreements to sell our natural resources for basically nothing to countries that can use them to manufacture products by paying nothing to employees and then we buy their stuff at huge markups. When I worked as a Ford mechanic it wasn't uncommon to see cars with 3-400,000 klms on them, now 100,000 klms is trade in time and after talking to a German VW mechanic it will become common for turbo 4 cyl cars to be junked at the 100,000 klm mark. Lots of factors contribute to the demise of Chrysler Ford and GMH, lets not forget that we no longer have a footwear clothing or textile industry either. We lived for a long time with import duties protecting our goods but our marvellous politicians decided it's better to have no manufacturing in Australia and just be a big hole in the ground donating our resources to the exploding populations of countries overseas. At the current rate of immigration we will soon be one of those countries, lets not forget that we hear from pollies their penchant for a BIG Australia. Conveniently ignoring the fact that massive immigration has done nothing for the USA and UK, both financial basket cases with no manufacturing industries left. Kids best get a good education these days because competition for lower paid jobs will be fierce. Just my 2c worth [ maybe only worth 1c these days ] |
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#30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,916
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For a nation with its own auto industry, we have the lowest auto import duty in the World.
Try importing a vehicle into Korea, Thailand or Japan. Suddenly that $30k car becomes $60k or even $100k+ Most popular car in Japan is Japanese, most popular car in Germany is German, most popular car in France is French. Most popular car in Australia? Japanese or Korean. For whatever reason the Governments have had no interest in protecting our auto industry, which is the biggest factor in it all.
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