Another Holden is gone article

[zipping]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/h...031-2wma7.html

Holden will stop manufacturing in Australia in three or four years no matter what Canberra does to prop it up, senior ministers in the federal government now believe.

The bleak conclusion, which has not been stated publicly, is fuelling strong resistance inside the government to further taxpayer subsidies to the automotive industry.

Also fuelling ministerial anger is the assistance sought by Holden in current crisis talks, which according to one is "in excess of $200 million" per year from 2015, when the current car plan expires.

The minister said there was a recognition that too much good money had been spent after bad and that the end of the sector could not be forestalled forever.

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A looming policy showdown between economic rationalists and those in favour of a new car assistance plan is shaping as the first major division in the Abbott cabinet, and the first real test of the Prime Minister's economic policy instincts.

It comes as Labor dramatically stepped up the pressure on the government on Thursday to throw a life-line to Holden.

Former industry minister Kim Carr pleaded with the government not to wait for an interim Productivity Commission report, due before Christmas.

Declaring there wasn't a single car on the road which had not been subsidised, Senator Carr said Canberra needed to act within a fortnight or the General Motors board, meeting in Detroit, would vote to shift its operation to China.

"It may well be that as soon as the December meeting, a decision is taken to actually wind down manufacturing facilities in this country," he said.

Economic ministers are said to be increasingly cynical about Holden's intentions and are convinced the company's Detroit headquarters has resigned itself to pulling out of Australia, citing among other things the imminent re-deployment of Holden's chief executive, Mike Devereux, to China.

They suspect the amount being asked for in exchange for few if any commitments, such as increased exports or minimum job numbers, suggests Detroit is virtually inviting Canberra to say no.

Toyota is also feeling the pinch of the high dollar, announcing on Thursday that it will require productivity improvements from its 2500 employees to reduce the cost of its cars by $3800 by 2018.

“We need to take urgent action because we are now seeing gaps in our transformation plans," said CEO Max Yasuda.

"We must develop detailed plans to close these gaps if we want to remain at the negotiating table for future investments.”

Mr Abbott brushed off claims of a split in Coalition ranks and appeared to offer hope to auto-workers, saying in Melbourne: "The Government is absolutely at one in its commitment to give the car industry every chance of success."

The decision on Holden's future is already caught up in politics with a state election next March presenting a challenge for the Liberal opposition in South Australia if the federal government decides to refuse further assistance.

[BroadyFord]

This article from The Australian essentially indicates that Holden are doing everything they can to create an exit out of Australia. Indeed, these demands are ridiculous and both Holden and the government know that they cannot be accepted. I would expect a closure announcement within the next 6 weeks.

Holden ultimatum on aid after 2016

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1226750894875#

HOLDEN has demanded annual "rent" from the Coalition after 2016 to keep making cars in Australia. The bid for a yearly subsidy is a key issue dividing cabinet as it considers the future of taxpayer assistance to the car industry, sources close to negotiations told The Australian.

However, Tony Abbott said yesterday the Coalition was "at one" in its commitment to the car industry and he wanted Holden and Toyota to remain in the country.

This came as Toyota announced it would be following Holden's lead in renegotiating its workplace agreement with 2500 employees to "improve its long-term manufacturing viability".

A condition of a recurrent subsidy for the car industry is shaping as a key point of friction between Holden and the federal government. The demand conflicts with comments by Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane, who has said any Coalition assistance package would not be ongoing. The Australian can reveal that outgoing Holden managing director Mike Devereux told senior Coalition MPs before the election - including the Prime Minister and former industry spokeswoman Sophie Mirabella - that an annual payment was needed for Holden to continue in Australia, and to invest in building two next-generation vehicles at its Elizabeth plant in northern Adelaide.

This was reiterated in meetings with the government early last month.

This year, Mr Devereux characterised taxpayer assistance as a "rent" paid by governments to sustain the industry. "Governments rent our industry to create jobs," he said then.

In another key sticking point between the company and the government, Holden has flagged the end of its Australian export program, telling the Coalition that it has no plans to export beyond 2016. Instead, the company wants government support for a scaled-down domestic industry producing about 65,000 cars a year.

It produced 84,000 cars last year and exported 14,500.

Mr Macfarlane said more taxpayer assistance to Holden would be conditional on increased exports, but the government has since suggested this may not be realistic.

Federal Labor announced before the election that an annual subsidy until 2025 of $300 million for the auto sector was needed to secure Holden and Toyota's carmaking operations.

It is understood that of this $300m, Holden and Toyota would have shared about $180m in annual assistance, with $120m earmarked for the component sector.

The ongoing subsidy would be drawn from a continuation of the Automotive Transformation Scheme, which was established by Labor in 2008 and is due to expire in 2020.

The Coalition had pledged to remove $500m from the fund by 2015.

Holden has not commented publicly on the amount of funding it needs in addition to a $275m lump sum announced by the Labor government last year.

Opposition industry spokesman Kim Carr said yesterday he had been "on the verge of an agreement" with Holden before the election.

The carmaker would not comment yesterday on its proposal to government. The Australian has been told Holden is not prepared to negotiate on the two key conditions of recurrent funding and exports. Government sources have said the offer from Holden is a "take it or leave it" proposition.

The carmaker is understood to be concerned at the damage being inflicted on the brand by the ongoing public debate about financial assistance.

"They don't want to be going through this dramatic saga again in another few years," a government source said.

However, Mr Macfarlane has said the next government package to the carmaker would be the end of government assistance.

"We can't go on supporting this industry," he said.

The Prime Minister, asked about the risk of losing the national car manufacturing industry, said a dynamic economy such as Australia's was going to evolve over time.

"But the important point is that we create jobs and preserve jobs. I want to see jobs in the motor industry preserved and if possible created," he said.

Liberal sources said Mr Abbott might hold the "trump card" in determining the Coalition's response to the embattled sector, with senior ministers at odds on the level of support to give the industry.

There is also concern among South Australian Liberal MPs about the ramifications for the depressed northern Adelaide region if Holden were to close its manufacturing operations, and the potential political impact for the party at next year's state election, at which it hopes to deny Labor a fourth term.

Yesterday South Australian Labor Premier Jay Weatherill urged Mr Abbott not to wait until the Productivity Commission review into the sector before making a commitment to Holden, saying 13,000 jobs were at risk in the state. "This (timeframe) is utterly inconsistent with the timelines that Holden have for co-investment," he said.

Senator Carr supported the Premier's remarks, saying an "incredibly serious" situation was developing in the industry.

He warned that General Motors might have decided to close its Adelaide plant before the Productivity Commission released its interim report next month. "The new government has basically said . . . 'we'll have an inquiry, you can wait until we get past the South Australian election', and of course by that time what we'll be talking about is the death of the automotive industry."

[jmack]

holden or gm australia whatever u want to call them r gone and just trying to find someone or thing to direct everyones anger towards and say its not our fault

[GQ_Smooth]

Well done to Ford Australia for making the honorable decision, without holding a gun to anyones head and blaming everyone else accept themselves.

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

Well done to Ford Australia for making the honorable decision, without holding a gun to anyones head and blaming everyone else accept themselves.

This.

[Golioth]

Fair Go! The top Holden Oz guys need to maintain their corporate boxes somehow, I am sure Mr Devereux is having a great time watching the Oz rugby league team play in England.

[PepeLePew]

Carr: 'verge of a decision'

Sure...............positioning to come up smelling like a rose for those that believe Holden would commit to stay, ah politics.

[stazza]

If I were a Holden employee I would be on the hunt for new employment already.

oh and

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by stazza

If I were a Holden employee I would be on the hunt for new employment already.

oh and

I knew you'd like this news.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by jmack

holden or gm australia whatever u want to call them r gone and just trying to find someone or thing to direct everyones anger towards and say its not our fault

I would agree with this.

Last year, around July, (around the time there were rumours of FPV scaling back their models by the end of 2012) I was having a chat with a dealer. He was of the view that Graziano was way too qualified for the post of Ford Australia and that he'd been sent here to do a certain job. What made it difficult at that time was the surge in sales of the new Territory even though Falcon numbers were low.

He also said that Holden and Toyota were also thinking of stopping local manufacturing but nobody (Ford, Holden, Toyota) really wanted to go first fearing being crucified in the media.

Ford really appear to have been more upfront about shutting down local manufacturing (as much as it is going to hurt a lot of people who will lose their jobs) and even during the GFC, Ford did not resort to seeking government handouts or resorting to bankruptcy to get their house in order.

It seems they decided to take the pain now and get on with future plans.

Holden will definitely try and turn the blame on someone else other than themselves for deciding not to continue manufacturing here.

The other side of the coin is that

[1TUFFUTE]

So all the dumbarse clowns who've been bagging ford for their descissions the last few years can go jump. At least we can be proud of their products and the way they have slowly wound down here. Holden once again showing their true colours and being absolute dogs. Ransom...blackmail....lies and so on. The way they run that place im surprised they lasted this long. Im actually surprised they have ANY fans.

[Joe5619]

Holden have done nothing & said nothing here. It is the politicians & media that are making a circus of this. I wish the government would stop airing dirty laundry; it does no one any good.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Holden have done nothing & said nothing here. It is the politicians & media that are making a circus of this. I wish the government would stop airing dirty laundry; it does no one any good.

You are correct Joe, however, do you remember Ford being chastised and ridiculed, including by many on this forum, for keeping quiet?

[PepeLePew]

Holden have done plenty behind closed doors which has been aired in public. BUT...as a responsible corporate if they need to be perceived poorly or otherwise, and they've decided to cut and run, they need to do so with as little financial and image damage as possible. And will likely do/say whatever it takes to achieve that. From their side of the fence, tough balancing act. Be interesting to see how this pans out.

[Bossxr8]

The simple fact is large car sales numbers continue to drop year after year. Nothing is going to stop that, no matter how much cash the government throws at it.

I'm just wondering wether Holden will continue to exist or will it evolve into Chevrolet here?

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'm just wondering wether Holden will continue to exist or will it evolve into Chevrolet here?

It will stay Holden, the brand name is just too important to discard, any GM products imported here might be just rebadged as Holden, the general public will still believe it's an Australian product they are buying, so it's a win for GM.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

Well done to Ford Australia for making the honorable decision, without holding a gun to anyones head and blaming everyone else accept themselves.

Whilst I agree, at least Holden are putting up a fight to stay, even if it does make them look bad.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by stazza

If I were a Holden employee I would be on the hunt for new employment already.

oh and

Is it 2016 yet mate?

Hate the japs instead, not another yank multinational who makes similar cars.

[82XD393.3v]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Whilst I agree, at least Holden are putting up a fight to stay, even if it does make them look bad.

all i see is milking of our tax dollars to string things out, fight gee get a grip

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 82XD393.3v

all i see is milking of our tax dollars to string things out, fight gee get a grip

"However, as Kim Carr noted recently, the industry, cumulatively, received subsidies amounting to less than $18 per person over the last decade. So it cost you, the long-suffering Australian taxpayer, the princely sum of $1.80 per annum to prevent the collapse of plants like Elizabeth, Fishermans Bend, Altona, Geelong and Broadmeadows"

Virtually every industry in this country is subsidised. Every country with a car manufacturing industry provides significant assistance to that industry. Australia does not support its car manufacturing industry nearly as much as most other countries do. Holden are not milking anything. You don't have to be rude either.

[FGX-351]

Can we go back to 2004 please? :(

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'm just wondering wether Holden will continue to exist or will it evolve into Chevrolet here?

im sure its not cheap to be rebadging everything that comes in, but the brand is still strong so I think it would be wrong to call them Chev.

Also has all this movement now opened the door officially to Linclon and Caddilac?

[flooded one]

well if Holden does go (Stazzas Horray!!!) they should just become Chevrolet seeing holden owners put chevy bagdes on their commodores!!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The simple fact is large car sales numbers continue to drop year after year. Nothing is going to stop that, no matter how much cash the government throws at it.

I'm just wondering wether Holden will continue to exist or will it evolve into Chevrolet here?

Yet Commodore sales where up 35% for the month & up 15% for the year. Commodore was the 3rd best selling model for the month too. Not a bad effort for a market that is meant to be dead!!

However, as I said earlier, how said is it that 3,300 is now a good month.. I'll agree it will never go back to what it once was!! Very sad for Commodore & Falcon fans!!

[Bill M]

On the subject of subsidies, I would rather support Australian subsidised industry rather than another country's subsidised industries!
If Holden and Toyota are the remaining flag bearers for auto manufacturing here then so be it, I support them as best as I can.
Judging from some the ill informed commentary in these forums then I must be in a minority in wanting to maintain my own country's economic well being

[prydey]

no single model has been selling more than 4000units (give or take) for years, so why expect the aussie models to start selling like they were decades ago.

i bet if you looked into it, the sales of whole milk would have seriously dropped as well with the advent of low fat milk, a2 milk, soy milk, etc etc.

as the market dilutes, so will the sales of individual models.

commodore had a good month. for their sake it would be nice for it to be enough, but i think that ship has sailed. once ford paved the way, it was only going to be a matter of time before holden and toyota followed. unless govt policies drastically change, the auto industry won't be here in 5 years. at least with ford falling on their sword, it has brought the spotlight on to the issues the industry face, but all too late i fear.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

no single model has been selling more than 4000units (give or take) for years, so why expect the aussie models to start selling like they were decades ago.

i bet if you looked into it, the sales of whole milk would have seriously dropped as well with the advent of low fat milk, a2 milk, soy milk, etc etc.

as the market dilutes, so will the sales of individual models.

commodore had a good month. for their sake it would be nice for it to be enough, but i think that ship has sailed. once ford paved the way, it was only going to be a matter of time before holden and toyota followed. unless govt policies drastically change, the auto industry won't be here in 5 years. at least with ford falling on their sword, it has brought the spotlight on to the issues the industry face, but all too late i fear.

This.
Holden has done everything possible with new pricing of VF Commodores to encourage buyers into the showroom.
I think Holden will give VF a chance fo a couple of months and see what happens but I think 3000 off commodores
is not enough long term to justify continuing production for more than three to five years.

Cruze production was always about buying time for Commodore production in Australia,
we may find that by this time next year decisions are made public and the focus shifts
to what happens after everyone stops making cars locally....

The government is playing chicken with a bus that no brakes and steering.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226752439104

[Bossxr8]

Just shows how stupid the whole thing is. Absolute dipshits whinging over $500 million a year of subsidies when it can bring in over $21 billion in economic benefits over a decade.

Why is it even an issue?

[pottery beige]

bcos dipshits bro