Vass certificates for modified vehicles

[Vass Engineer]

I am writing this in response to what I’ve read about people in relation to obtaining a Vass certificate and cost associated not only on this forum but other as well.

Vass certificates are only for the state of Victoria, other states will have a different name for the same system employed. They are a legal document to certify that the modifications to a motor vehicle are still compliant in relation to Australian design rules (ADR’s), vehicle standards bulletins (VSB 6 & 14 plus others), road vehicle safety regulations (RVSR 2009), the motor vehicle act and regulations 1989, Australian standards or any other international standard that are used for the purpose of Manufacturing Motor vehicles.

Original vehicle manufacturers are required to supply vehicle’s in accordance to the approval that is issued to the manufacturer by the Australian government. If they supply a vehicle to the market that is not in accordance to the approval and found guilty of an offence they can be fined up to approximately 65,000 dollars per vehicle. The state laws of Victoria for a vehicle that is no longer compliant by modifications of the registered owner of the vehicle my face court proceedings against them any could be fined up to 11,000 dollars plus.

A Vass signatory will only supply a certificate if the modifications are compliant to the relevant common laws throughout Australia. The signatory is not responsible for any modification that has been done by the owner or by any 3rd party. The signatory is not obligated to the issue a certificate even if the vehicle does or doesn’t comply. The signatory is not paid by any government department for the work that is undertaken. If the owner of the vehicle who modifies a vehicle engages the services of a Vass signatory are required to pay the signatory directly.

If you are the registered owner of a vehicle you are fully responsible for the condition and any modifications of the vehicle while driving on any public road. If you modify a vehicle without obtaining a certificate then your vehicle may be deemed a non-compliant registered vehicle.

I will now give you some examples of a modification that could possibly make your vehicle non-compliant. Now before I go any further I say this I do not certify vehicles under 3.5 tonne rating but I do get calls for cars that have either been detected by police or people being inform they will need to obtain a certificate prior to registration.

Tyres and rims, people who change their tyres and rims generally do so without giving it in any second thoughts. The plain simple truth is the manufacturers’ will supply to the government at list of tyres and rims sizes that were tested in accordance to the relevant ADR’s. They then fit what is commonly known as a Tyre placard. This label will have the tyres / profiles rim sizes that we used when testing the particular model vehicle prior to approval.

So if you have say 20 inch rims and tyres fitted to your vehicle and they are not listed on the Tyre placard then your vehicle is no longer compliant to the original approval issued for that make and model of vehicle. Even if the tyres have the same rolling radius as the originals were, they would still be non-compliant. The reason being that vehicle was never tested with those tyres and rims fitted. This includes brake performances, yawing, suspension travel, Tyre and rim deflection and movement. This is just a few reasons why your vehicle would no longer be possibly compliant.

For an engineer to certify the tyres and rims are safe and will comply with all the relevant ADR’s he or she must do all relevant testing and maintain records to show that the modifications comply with the ADR’s for that year of manufacture. In order to do this the engineer would normally have to hire a testing facility. So innocence your $2000 set of tyres and rims may very well cost you if you decide that is exactly what you want in excess of 14,000 dollars or more for all the relevant testing to be concluded. There are exceptions to all of this however I suggest that most people do their homework before purchasing something that will make your vehicle possibly non-compliant.

Another example is raising the cabin area of a vehicle. This is very common in 4wd vehicle applications. The main issue here is once this is done you have changed the crumble zones & centre of gravity of the cabin area. Unless you can prove that the modification will have no affect either because the manufacturer originally tested the vehicle in that condition and is willing to issued a letter for compliance & approval kit, then you are most likely placing on yourself in a situation that could prove fatal if involved in an accident. There are several 4wd aftermarket accessories companies that will supply kits for vehicles. Make sure that they are prepared to give you certification to state that your vehicle will still be compliant as per the manufacturer’s original compliance approval. If you need to have it tested and I can guarantee your cabin will be no longer usable, so you may need to consider a 2nd vehicle at your cost for the relevant testing if has never being done before by a manufacturer or any qualified engineer or engineering company & I know of one company that charges around 50K to do the testing.

Another common modification is engine changes, Diesel to petrol or LPG, six cylinder inline to V8. Depending on the year of manufacture will determine what emissions testing needs to be done. So if you have say a 2005 model Toyota utility diesel & you change to chev 350 V8 then the vehicle will need to be tested in accordance to the required and emissions and noise testing for that year of manufacture for petrol engines. There are other issues associated with the engine changes fuel tanks, fuel lines, fuel pumps, protection circuits, pollution requirements are just a few items to consider.

In summary do not expect the authorised signatory to be responsible for your lack of understanding of what is an acceptable modification to any motor vehicle. If you do your homework first and make sure you understand what your legal obligation is for owning a registered vehicle in your name. Nobody is suggesting that you cannot modify your vehicle. Just don’t modify for your vehicle where it is no longer compliant.

If you do not modify for your vehicle, then you don’t need the services of an external engineer. This is no different to; if you don’t break the law then you won’t need the services of a lawyer. However if you do modify your vehicle then there is highly probable chance you may need the services of one or maybe both at some point in time.

Something else to consider is if you are involved in an accident no matter how big or small it may be a chance that your insurance company may refuse to pay for any damages and costs occurred. Having a Vass Certificate is no actual guarantee that it will be accepted by your insurance Company.

One other thing to consider, if you modify a vehicle from the OEM design you then become responsible for the whole vehicle entirely, if you develop problem or issues the manufacture in most cases will probably wipe there hands of the situation even if under warranty, once the vehicle modified from their original design they are no longer responsible for it.

So instead of asking how much does an engineer charge for your modified vehicle, ask yourself how much will it cost in the long term & what are the consequences for modifying the vehicle in the first place. So before anyone disputes what I have written & I’m sure there will be, do some simply research. Vass signatories are not law enforcement people but they are people that will help you if you go about it the right way & don’t expect there services for free when all the relevant information is on the web.

[Franco Cozzo]

One of our vehicles got knocked back by the engineer because we used flat steel plate instead of a steel plate with a 5mm radius on the ends under the car to secure the furniture inside.

[Vass Engineer]

Yes that is correct must have 5mm radius on the edges & in most cases minimum size 50x50x3 mm flat plate or square washer. If you wish refer to VSB -5 A+B.

[Lotte]

Randomly, how does one become a VASS accredited engineer after uni?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

One of our vehicles got knocked back by the engineer because we used flat steel plate instead of a steel plate with a 5mm radius on the ends under the car to secure the furniture inside.

thats basic metal fab and sloppy workmanship on your workplaces behalf..

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Vass Engineer

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Tyres and rims, people who change their tyres and rims generally do so without giving it in any second thoughts. The plain simple truth is the manufacturers’ will supply to the government at list of tyres and rims sizes that were tested in accordance to the relevant ADR’s. They then fit what is commonly known as a Tyre placard. This label will have the tyres / profiles rim sizes that we used when testing the particular model vehicle prior to approval.

So if you have say 20 inch rims and tyres fitted to your vehicle and they are not listed on the Tyre placard then your vehicle is no longer compliant to the original approval issued for that make and model of vehicle. Even if the tyres have the same rolling radius as the originals were, they would still be non-compliant. The reason being that vehicle was never tested with those tyres and rims fitted. This includes brake performances, yawing, suspension travel, Tyre and rim deflection and movement. This is just a few reasons why your vehicle would no longer be possibly compliant.

Isn't there a section in VSB14 that deals with minor modifications that do not require certification in regards to tyres/wheels not shown on the tyre placard?

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by Lotte

Randomly, how does one become a VASS accredited engineer after uni?

One just doesn't become accredited, You must have the level of criteria, have the correct infrastructure, pass a police check & apply for the correct levels of vehicles that you wish to inspect, You must maintain records for the prescribe time frame.

If authorized & I stress authorized it is only done so on 12 monthly basis. I have seen many of signatories never return for many reasons. Your application will most likely take 2 months for approval provided you meet everything.

[noosacuda]

Sounds like a Government plot to eradicate modified vehicles by making it too complex to get "approval" for simple mods like wheels,exhausts,engines etc to me.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by Vass Engineer

One just doesn't become accredited, You must have the level of criteria, have the correct infrastructure, pass a police check & apply for the correct levels of vehicles that you wish to inspect, You must maintain records for the prescribe time frame.

If authorized & I stress authorized it is only done so on 12 monthly basis. I have seen many of signatories never return for many reasons. Your application will most likely take 2 months for approval provided you meet everything.

I know all that. What I don't know, and can't find, is what the actual requirements are. Hence why I asked.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Sounds like a Government plot to eradicate modified vehicles by making it too complex to get "approval" for simple mods like wheels,exhausts,engines etc to me.

It's mainly come around due to people doing some really dodgy unsafe modifications in the past, many people do not realise they can be making their car dangerous

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Sounds like a Government plot to eradicate modified vehicles by making it too complex to get "approval" for simple mods like wheels,exhausts,engines etc to me.

Not at all.
They are getting dodgy , half arsed modified vehicles off the road.
Done properly and working with an engineer you would be surprised at how off chops you can still build a car that is 100% street legal and you can drive it anywhere without fear. It just takes planning , thought and effort.

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Isn't there a section in VSB14 that deals with minor modifications that do not require certification in regards to tyres/wheels not shown on the tyre placard?

Under VSB -14 there is the National code of Practice (NOCP 11) there is a section on tyres & rims. Make sure you read any other items or codes that may affect your modification.

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Sounds like a Government plot to eradicate modified vehicles by making it too complex to get "approval" for simple mods like wheels,exhausts,engines etc to me.

Look I'm not going to justify things on behalf on Governments, there is a lot more to any modification than to what you may suggest, as I said nobody is stopping you from modifying your vehicle, you are responsible for your own vehicle. Just be prepared that it may cost more in the long run.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Vass Engineer

Under VSB -14 there is the National code of Practice (NOCP 11) there is a section on tyres & rims. Make sure you read any other items or codes that may affect your modification.

Yes, Section LS - Tyres, rims, suspension and steering.
Section 4 - Basic modifications without certification.
4.2 - Non-standard tyres and rims.

I can't see why the 20" rims you used in your example would need certification. Can you please explain why?

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Yes, Section LS - Tyres, rims, suspension and steering.
Section 4 - Basic modifications without certification.
4.2 - Non-standard tyres and rims.

I can't see why the 20" rims you used in your example would need certification. Can you please explain why?

Perhaps you need to read more & also read the admin circulars & the ADR's in regards to tyres & rims. Most people fail to read all in its correct manner, as I said I'm not going to justify to people on forums why they can or can't do things as a modification. I have given some clear examples of what must be taken into consideration. I also stated that I don't do cars even through I can. I have simply explained modifying your vehicle can cause you more financial costs than the initial pair of rubber boots you purchase. sorry if this doesn't satisfy you.

Its the same if you ask a lawyer how fast can I speed past posted speed limit before I end up in court, the information on road rules is there its up to people if they break it will eventually cost you. sorry for pep talk.

[ratter]

please do not shoot the messenger, he does make the rules I assume he is here to answer legit questions and help people out with correct information

[Lotte]

Except he's not answering a legitimate question.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Vass Engineer

I have simply explained modifying your vehicle can cause you more financial costs than the initial pair of rubber boots you purchase. sorry if this doesn't satisfy you.

I can't see the point of this thread then. You say you certify vehicles and warn people about modifications, then someone politely asks you for some more info on your example you won't answer.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Vass Engineer

Perhaps you need to read more & also read the admin circulars & the ADR's in regards to tyres & rims. Most people fail to read all in its correct manner, as I said I'm not going to justify to people on forums why they can or can't do things as a modification. I have given some clear examples of what must be taken into consideration. I also stated that I don't do cars even through I can. I have simply explained modifying your vehicle can cause you more financial costs than the initial pair of rubber boots you purchase. sorry if this doesn't satisfy you.

Its the same if you ask a lawyer how fast can I speed past posted speed limit before I end up in court, the information on road rules is there its up to people if they break it will eventually cost you. sorry for pep talk.

Can you please point me in the right direction for the relevant circulars and ADR's as like I said the way I read VSB14 I can't see why you would need to get a set of 20's certified on say a Falcon if you follow the rules set out in VSB14.

I am not trying to be provocative, I am asking a genuine question as changing wheels is generally the only mod I do to my cars.

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by cs123

I can't see the point of this thread then. You say you certify vehicles and warn people about modifications, then someone politely asks you for some more info on your example you won't answer.

Actually I have answered the question by actually given people some understanding why Vass signatories in Victoria are there. I gather by your response you think I am avoiding the question. well I'm not. The purpose of this thread was to make people aware that Vass signatories are there to inspect vehicles on behalf of the state government & they are independent & therefore run a business. It was a previous post I read the question was primarily based on, what should it should cost. The simple answer is there no fixed cost because every modification that is done, has to be asset on the merits of modification.

In relation to the tyre consider these area's

load index, fatigue on suspension, widths in relation steering geometry, braking performance, turning ability, & the list goes on. So what I'm saying that the reason the tyre placard is there is because that's what OEM did an extensive amount of testing on to ensure that it passed the required summary of evidence required to show why it complies.

The aftermarket parts section is extremely huge & the availability of aftermarket parts is plentiful but is buyer beware.

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Can you please point me in the right direction for the relevant circulars and ADR's as like I said the way I read VSB14 I can't see why you would need to get a set of 20's certified on say a Falcon if you follow the rules set out in VSB14.

I am not trying to be provocative, I am asking a genuine question as changing wheels is generally the only mod I do to my cars.

I guess I have made a rod for my back so to speak. I understand the basis of your question. before you start get very frustrated as I said the NCOP I referred you to has a lot more information in it than what you have appeared to have read. Its not may intention to provided any accurate answers because every vehicle will be different but I'm happy to point people in a direction for them to consider where they should look.

Your may wish to consult ADR 24 & 30 for starters. All the required information is there on websites people just need to browse to find. I have list most in my original post in the first couple of paragraphs.

[calais]

Forgive me for saying, but is this not just another example of an overbearing nanny state cracking down yet again on what was once a simple task? Owning and modestly customising vehicles?

I understand the need for vigilance and appropriate certification in specific circumstances such as ICV's or scratchbuilt vehicles or other circumstances which the OP has mentioned such as cab lifts and items which directly affect a vehicles structural integrity, but a change from 14" to 15" tyres? A cat back exhaust? Amber to clear indicator lenses? Pfft.

Sounds like an industry geared on a fear campaign and stuffed down our throats in the name of safety. Gotta make a buck somehow right?

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by calais

Forgive me for saying, but is this not just another example of an overbearing nanny state cracking down yet again on what was once a simple task? Owning and modestly customising vehicles?

I understand the need for vigilance and appropriate certification in specific circumstances such as ICV's or scratchbuilt vehicles or other circumstances which the OP has mentioned such as cab lifts and items which directly affect a vehicles structural integrity, but a change from 14" to 15" tyres? A cat back exhaust? Amber to clear indicator lenses? Pfft.

Sounds like an industry geared on a fear campaign and stuffed down our throats in the name of safety. Gotta make a buck somehow right?

No !!!

The systems has been in place since 1989 the only difference was it was called RES instead of VASS prior 2001. Like I said Vass Signatories are not law authorities, we have no right to enforce anything. However computer systems are making things easier for government departments to keep records on vehicles.

[happy1]

My vehicles are in WA, not VIC, so the VASS doesn't directly apply in my case.
Instead it will be a pre-approval form to be submitted to Department of Transport WA, with subsequent engineering by a practicing automotive engineer, and final approval by DOT WA.
Just wondering your opinion on something. If a 'modification' is to go from a lower option within a body shell, to 'upgrade' to the top model within the same body shell, with all its factory features; complete set of matching suspension, engine, brakes, exhaust etc from the more powerful model, Would you based on inspections and receipts be able to conclude that this vehicle is now identical with another version of the factory approval, therefore not requiring full set of handling, brake & emission tests?
In my case I have plans to put a complete drivetrain from a stat-writeoff Territory F6x (turbo 4wd) I already own, into my licenced base model rwd Territory. Both are year 2008, and all parts except seats will be the F6X parts. I have not yet discussed with WA DOT. Just curious to hear your view on 'modification' according to meet exact specifications of a different factory model.
Here on Fordforums I would assume there are many members for example swapping XR6T drivetrains into their non-turbo BA/BF shells.
Thanks for your time responding to this.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Just curious. What does 50k of testing generally entail?

[GTP534]

In NSW the RTA (or what they call themselves now) have "Vehicle Standard Information" booklets. The one dealing with wheels/tyres is VSI 09 Revision 4.

I did a fair bit of research when deciding on new wheels for my car and this booklet outlines what's acceptable, what's not and what needs an Engineer's Certification. It refers to the Tyre Placard and what is permissible relative to what is stated on the placard.

For example, the FPV GT has 8" rear wheels. You can go to 9" (while meeting restrictions in offset increase and rear track increase) but for anything exceeding this you would need to be certified by an Engineer and even then there are limits on what an Engineer can certify.

My main point though is that a car does not necessarily become non-compliant because of the fitment of 20" rims which might not be on the tyre placard; it would only become non-compliant if you go outside of what is permissible by the local Roads/Transport/Registration Authority.

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by happy1

My vehicles are in WA, not VIC, so the VASS doesn't directly apply in my case.

I would say the common laws are the same. e.g. reference my 1st post.

Instead it will be a pre-approval form to be submitted to Department of Transport WA, with subsequent engineering by a practicing automotive engineer, and final approval by DOT WA.


Just wondering your opinion on something. If a 'modification' is to go from a lower option within a body shell, to 'upgrade' to the top model within the same body shell, with all its factory features; complete set of matching suspension, engine, brakes, exhaust etc from the more powerful model, Would you based on inspections and receipts be able to conclude that this vehicle is now identical with another version of the factory approval, therefore not requiring full set of handling, brake & emission tests?

The VIN no will have codes to identify the build of the individual vehicles, On the compliance approval plate there is a approval number for model of vehicle. I would check to see for any differences on the approvals no located on the compliance plates, then go from there. Once again the simplicity of what people look for may have other issues to consider, but in general if the parts are supplied by the OEM then you can be assured they are built in compliance, Also consider engine management systems as well.

In my case I have plans to put a complete drivetrain from a stat-writeoff Territory F6x (turbo 4wd) I already own, into my licenced base model rwd Territory. Both are year 2008, and all parts except seats will be the F6X parts. I have not yet discussed with WA DOT. Just curious to hear your view on 'modification' according to meet exact specifications of a different factory model.

Stat write-offs can cause all sorts of issues, for instance here in Vic you would need to use VIV inspector. What you are proposing is probably feasible to do how ever I would do some more research on what maybe different in frame structure between RWD & 4WD versions Once again check the approval numbers. Google RVCS Menu, go to Vehicle/RVD search- Type in the approval number- go down to Status check ALL- click search. Read the information carefully & see what if any compliance issue may arise. But once again make some calls to the relevant Gov Departments an engage the services of authorized person prior to starting. It could save you a lot of issues afterwards.

Here on Fordforums I would assume there are many members for example swapping XR6T drivetrains into their non-turbo BA/BF shells.
Thanks for your time responding to this.

At one point in time people were buying the non - turbo models because they were cheaper to buy, then taking them to aftermarket to reto fit the turbo, the OEM refused any warranty on the vehicle once this was done, there are some very distinct differences between the models.

[Vass Engineer]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Just curious. What does 50k of testing generally entail?

Research crash testing cabin structures for vehicles.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Vass Engineer

I guess I have made a rod for my back so to speak. I understand the basis of your question. before you start get very frustrated as I said the NCOP I referred you to has a lot more information in it than what you have appeared to have read. Its not may intention to provided any accurate answers because every vehicle will be different but I'm happy to point people in a direction for them to consider where they should look.

Your may wish to consult ADR 24 & 30 for starters. All the required information is there on websites people just need to browse to find. I have list most in my original post in the first couple of paragraphs.

Thanks I will have a read when I get a chance. However it seems odd to me that you would need to get a small change like going from 19" to 20" wheels certified when VSB14 (and VSI 09 for NSW) outlines a set of guidelines to follow for minor modifications that don't need certification.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Sounds like a Government plot to eradicate modified vehicles by making it too complex to get "approval" for simple mods like wheels,exhausts,engines etc to me.

No way. Modified cars are a cash cow that are easy to spot and even easier to fine. That and they know most owners can and will pay to get their pride and joy back on the road.

Of course they are going to have their hand out whenever they can.

Doing it the right way or the wrong way is still going to cost you more money, the wrong way just seems to still be cheaper.