Gillard Gives Holden Workers 10% Pay Rise !! What about Ford !!!!

[csv8]

"Underlying the Prime Minister's determination to use power while she can, on Wednesday she was in the Parliament expressing her determination to prop up General Motors Holden, which has so far received almost $2 billion in government subsidies: ''Yes, this government will support jobs in car making! Yes, we will continue the co-investments we have agreed to with Holden. Yes, we will do everything we can to resist the opposition's plan to rip half a billion dollars away from that industry support and cost 2000 hardworking Australians their jobs … So let me be very clear that we will never endorse the reckless plan to see those thousands of Australians thrown on the unemployment scrap heap.''

She intends to protect the decision made by Holden management in 2011, despite the company's precarious financial health, to sign an enterprise bargaining agreement giving workers a 10 per cent pay increase over three years, and set up an onerous redundancy regime - and even give the unions a say in running the company. Not surprisingly, Holden is no longer competitive and cannot survive without another handout."
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comm...623-2oqkd.html

[Rodge]

Why not support Holden ? Other countries support their car industries on the basis of huge payback through the taxes of the workers in the plant itself and all the other third party suppliers and that's before those staff go and spend their money and generate GST for the Govt too. One party understands that you don't bite the hand that feeds you. I hope Holden make it. As good as the SRT8 is I wouldn't want that to be the only choice.

As for Ford, well they're going so have cooked their own goose in many respects.

[2011G6E]

Commodore will be next to go.

I suppose it can of course use the defence that it's an export earner, even in a small way, unlike the Falcon.

[350125GO]

Originally Posted by csv8

"Underlying the Prime Minister's determination to use power while she can, on Wednesday she was in the Parliament expressing her determination to prop up General Motors Holden, which has so far received almost $2 billion in government subsidies: ''Yes, this government will support jobs in car making! Yes, we will continue the co-investments we have agreed to with Holden. Yes, we will do everything we can to resist the opposition's plan to rip half a billion dollars away from that industry support and cost 2000 hardworking Australians their jobs … So let me be very clear that we will never endorse the reckless plan to see those thousands of Australians thrown on the unemployment scrap heap.''

She intends to protect the decision made by Holden management in 2011, despite the company's precarious financial health, to sign an enterprise bargaining agreement giving workers a 10 per cent pay increase over three years, and set up an onerous redundancy regime - and even give the unions a say in running the company. Not surprisingly, Holden is no longer competitive and cannot survive without another handout."
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comm...623-2oqkd.html

10% over three years, what is inflation running at?

[GT450]

This is the last commodore as we know it anyway and if it fails no amount of subsidy will save them. Unfortunately large RWD cars are considered dinosaurs with the majority of the buying public.
Be interesting watching Vfacts over the next few months , I hope they make it too but I don't hold out much hope. As for you Rodge , you seem interested in bad mouthing Ford now that they have made a commercial decision to cease manufacturing, but you have to agree your car is one of the best they have built.
We all have to come to grips with the fact that we will see a different Ford presence on the road in a few years, but at least it will be here and I for one am happy about that ,unlike some of our fairweather supporters on here.
GT450

[FPV GTHO]

There's 2 stories here: Labor will stay committed to what they're promised and 2: Holdens expensive local production is going to get more expensive.

The whole argument would be best kept for an actual motoring writer and not caught up in all the usual political waffle.

[Rodge]

GT450 - Yes SC GT-P is a great vehicle... BUT Ford made the decision to make an end game announcement three years out for commercial reasons that are extremly difficult to understand so if the public and Govt don't get in behind the new VF they'll be absolutly certain to be goners too. That and the significantly better technology in the HSV VF and SRT8 for that matter too is why I have a very open mind about my next purchase decision, (whenever that may be), and I for one won't automatically and mindlessly accept whatever Ford America decides in their "infinite wisdom" is right for down-under Ford enthusiasts. If that makes me a fairweather supporter after buying heaps of brand new performance Ford's and FPV over the last 15 years, then, sorry but that's just how it is. Ford changed the rules and moved the goal-posts of the game, not me.

[GT450]

I am dyed in the wool blue Rodge obviously you are not. I have over 20 new Fords in my time including 3 FPVS so your argument doesn't wash with me.
I wouldn't consider a Dodge and wouldn't even enter a GMH dealership let alone buy one. Never driven an HSV , never want to, but hey that's me, I am loyal. I respect your decisions but don't preach to the converted and please stop running down Ford for a decision I am sure they found hard to make. Buy whatever takes your fancy but leave the true bluebloods to carry on enjoying whatever cars the future brings.
By the way isn't the SRT American ?
GT450

[stazza]

Originally Posted by gt450

i am dyed in the wool blue rodge obviously you are not. I have over 20 new fords in my time including 3 fpvs so your argument doesn't wash with me.
I wouldn't consider a dodge and wouldn't even enter a gmh dealership let alone buy one. Never driven an hsv , never want to, but hey that's me, i am loyal. I respect your decisions but don't preach to the converted and please stop running down ford for a decision i am sure they found hard to make. Buy whatever takes your fancy but leave the true bluebloods to carry on enjoying whatever cars the future brings.
By the way isn't the srt american ?
Gt450

this.

[Joe5619]

I'm confused. Holden wants pay cuts, but the government wants to give them a pay increase??

[05_ENFORCER]

The government that is sprouting this Holden "prop up" will be gone in three months time and Holden will fail in 2015 also


.

[hodge_williams]

holden cuts pay & government increases = employees regular wage IMO

[GT2]

all businesses employ people who in turn pay taxes, pay GST, etc. In GMH's case, 2000 employees, in my case I employ 11. Not that I require a hand out, but if I did, there would be no chance in getting one.
Obviously my business doesn't employ anywhere near that of GMH, but I am sure you could easily find a few hundred struggling business who in total employ the same number of staff as GMH.

[Gadgetman]

Here are 3 points from this situation.
(1) Holden will blame the Liberals for costing thousands their jobs when they annouce the shutdon.
(2) The labour party will use this scenario as a tool to get more votes from the blue collar.
(3) The liberals will lose votes for not backing Holden.

Well done Holden, your PR department has done well to minimise the impact of public uproar in you not stating the obvious prior to the election.

[JC]

This type of handout is possibly cheaper than paying all those workers the dole (New Start) and paying for retraining etc for an extended period of time. I have no problem with the governemtn doing something good for the country for once....

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by GT450

I am dyed in the wool blue Rodge obviously you are not. I have over 20 new Fords in my time including 3 FPVS so your argument doesn't wash with me.
I wouldn't consider a Dodge and wouldn't even enter a GMH dealership let alone buy one. Never driven an HSV , never want to, but hey that's me, I am loyal. I respect your decisions but don't preach to the converted and please stop running down Ford for a decision I am sure they found hard to make. Buy whatever takes your fancy but leave the true bluebloods to carry on enjoying whatever cars the future brings.
By the way isn't the SRT American ?
GT450

Of course it is. My point is simply that if the Govt and customers don't get behind the VF they are absolutly certain to be gone as well and then we lose any prospect of buying an Australian made performance vehicle at soem, stage in the future. If you can't see past the blue oval regardless of what they make that's fine but this is the time for pragmatic thinking, not bloody-mindedness in terms of cutting off support to the Red Team. Loyalty is earned not given and I believe Ford will lose many previously loyal customers over their decision regardless of how you or how many others would like to think otherwise, that's simply the commercial reality of the situation in terms of a model winding down to its inevitable conclusion.

Loyalty only goes so far then reality bites. Anyway that's my view on it. Personally I'd be happy to own a new SC HSV GTS if it was more realistically priced in N.Z. and it would be a real shame if a car as technically advanced as this was missing from customers choices in this segment IMO. Final point is that the forthcoming Mustang won't suit everyone and I believe its time for pragmatic thinking or else...
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11398974

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Here are 3 points from this situation.
(1) Holden will blame the Liberals for costing thousands their jobs when they annouce the shutdon.
(2) The labour party will use this scenario as a tool to get more votes from the blue collar.
(3) The liberals will lose votes for not backing Holden.

Well done Holden, your PR department has done well to minimise the impact of public uproar in you not stating the obvious prior to the election.

No question. It looks like Holden is gearing up to dump the blame for closure on Tony Abbot. The Liberals are so ideologically driven these days, that even knowing they are being set up, they will go ahead and give Holden the excuse they need.

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm confused. Holden wants pay cuts, but the government wants to give them a pay increase??

The thread title is very misleading. Gillard hasn't given any pay rise to Holden workers, only stated her opinion that Holden should pay the increase agreed to in 2011. It's still up to Holden and the union to make on any changes to the 2011 agreement.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Rodge

...whatever Ford America decides in their "infinite wisdom" is right for down-under Ford enthusiasts. .

I'm pretty sure they didnt make any decision based on the enthusiast. I'm sure they made a decision based, using their 'infinite wisdom' on what was right for them. Dont take their ceasing local manufacturing personally. It wasn't a conspiracy decision to upset the so called enthusiasts. and Perhaps they have done this to cater to a new enthusiast, one who currently doesnt want falcons? Unless we sat in the boardroom we may never really know as all we get is the spin!
There is no denying they weren't selling the cars they make here. therefore there can't be that many real enthusiasts, or enough who buy new cars.

JP

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by GT450

I am dyed in the wool blue Rodge obviously you are not. I have over 20 new Fords in my time including 3 FPVS so your argument doesn't wash with me.
I wouldn't consider a Dodge and wouldn't even enter a GMH dealership let alone buy one. Never driven an HSV , never want to, but hey that's me, I am loyal. I respect your decisions but don't preach to the converted and please stop running down Ford for a decision I am sure they found hard to make. Buy whatever takes your fancy but leave the true bluebloods to carry on enjoying whatever cars the future brings.
By the way isn't the SRT American ?
GT450

I think that's a bit harsh, its fine being loyal, but loyalty goes both ways, and ford has always been prepared to incur the wrath of the 'enthusiast' buyer rather than spend money.

Come 2016 there will be no ford option to buy a hipo sedan, or ute, or good rwd biased SUV.
So what does the 'loyal' blue blooded customer buy? Ignoring holdens offerings is just sheer bloody mindedness, IMO your better of supporting a local manufacturer than just another import...
Loyalty is a luxury that ford no longer can afford.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by GT2

all businesses employ people who in turn pay taxes, pay GST, etc. In GMH's case, 2000 employees, in my case I employ 11. Not that I require a hand out, but if I did, there would be no chance in getting one.
Obviously my business doesn't employ anywhere near that of GMH, but I am sure you could easily find a few hundred struggling business who in total employ the same number of staff as GMH.

For those who can't see past a local automotive industry give a billion $$$ to what's left of the local component manufacturers.
For those who can, why not provide a billion $$$ to SPC Ardmona and save 1500 jobs. Sure they are owned by Coca-Cola Amatil but ...

[Rodge]

There is no denying they weren't selling the cars they make here. therefore there can't be that many real enthusiasts, or enough who buy new cars.

JP

That's it really isn't it ! Plenty on here call themselves true blue blood and have never directly supported Ford with a brand new Falcon or FPV purchase but for reasons best known to themselves would be happy to see support for the Red team pulled.
Perhaps they don't realise this isn't as simple as a red team vs blue team thing and cuts to the very essence of third party supplier continuance...the ones that make spare parts to keep their used Ford's going.

Hey yeah, I'm gutted like many other loyal Ford supporters on here but I'm not so small minded as to want to see the other team be torpedoed just for the sake of it. That's no good for anyone including used Ford owners.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Here are 3 points from this situation.
(1) Holden will blame the Liberals for costing thousands their jobs when they annouce the shutdon.
(2) The labour party will use this scenario as a tool to get more votes from the blue collar.
(3) The liberals will lose votes for not backing Holden.

Well done Holden, your PR department has done well to minimise the impact of public uproar in you not stating the obvious prior to the election.

Won't make a scrap of difference. The Australian public have stopped listening to politicians.

[nstg8a]

It stopped being ford vs Holden a long time ago, unfortunately most didn't/haven't realised until its too late.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by CoupeXB

The thread title is very misleading. Gillard hasn't given any pay rise to Holden workers, only stated her opinion that Holden should pay the increase agreed to in 2011. It's still up to Holden and the union to make on any changes to the 2011 agreement.

Don't forget the IR commission. They're the body to 'legally' overturn a binding contract.
Like the Falcon, GM already has Holdens non manufacturing future planned.

The writing on the wall is clear though - many insiders know/suspect this is the last Commodore, also realise no further funding for the HFV6 program, so its damn well obvious GM will try to reneg its workers of any pay increase between now and closure so it saves on wages and saves on payouts.

The 'cleaners' can then move onto their next global assignment with a hefty bonus to boot !

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I think that's a bit harsh, its fine being loyal, but loyalty goes both ways, and ford has always been prepared to incur the wrath of the 'enthusiast' buyer rather than spend money.

Come 2016 there will be no ford option to buy a hipo sedan, or ute, or good rwd biased SUV.
So what does the 'loyal' blue blooded customer buy? Ignoring holdens offerings is just sheer bloody mindedness, IMO your better of supporting a local manufacturer than just another import...
Loyalty is a luxury that ford no longer can afford.

Totally agree but would add that loyalty is something in my opinion that Ford no longer really deserve.

[flooded one]

I think that's a big kick in the guts too both Ford Australia and Toyota Australia employees. out of all three car manufactures left I see ford Australia more Australian the the other two personally. how many Australian designed and manufactured cars has Ford produced in the years compared too the other two??

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

For those who can't see past a local automotive industry give a billion $$$ to what's left of the local component manufacturers.
For those who can, why not provide a billion $$$ to SPC Ardmona and save 1500 jobs. Sure they are owned by Coca-Cola Amatil but ...

I agree, there are industries all over the country doing it tough. and I have a solution, it's so radical it will never get support but is so simple and proven to work globally.
Instead of bailing out ailing industries the Australian community, led by our political representatives should just take ownership of said industry. State owned. and the great thing about a country reclaiming whats on their land we don't need to pay 'market rate' or pay at all.
As a community we will pay billions of dollars in subsidies, bailouts, tax breaks etc and the industry thrives, and much of the profit goes either overseas or into the pockets of 'fat cats'. yes some of them take risk, should be rewarded, some of them inherit, cajole or steal their fortunes through insider trading and corruption.
Instead of sending profits OS, profits bolstered by our subsidies, as Australian community owned industries the money stays here, the money we use to aide the industry is returned to Australia and it's people.
We can build, grow and produce any and everything we need, hell we may also produce something we want.
Lets close the borders to foreign ownership of anything, domestic ownership of land and take back whats already been sold off, for us. Then we all have a responsibility to look after it, and keep an eye on whats going on and benefit from the rewards. Something we don't get today

Community ownership model I say

JP

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Here are 3 points from this situation.
(1) Holden will blame the Liberals for costing thousands their jobs when they annouce the shutdon.
(2) The labour party will use this scenario as a tool to get more votes from the blue collar.
(3) The liberals will lose votes for not backing Holden.

Well done Holden, your PR department has done well to minimise the impact of public uproar in you not stating the obvious prior to the election.

Holden know the writing is on the wall. The difference between Ford and Holden is Ford had the balls to make the decision first. Holden now have a easy way out to make the close down announcement as they can use Ford as an example.

I believe Holden have the same ignorance that GM had in the states of blackmailing the government and forcing them to give them a payout that they haven't paid off despite all the hype they have. Ford on the other hand took it upon themselves to mortgage themselves to the hilt including the blue oval and actually work themselves into a different position. And it has worked.

As much as I love big Australian Ford muscle cars (I've ad lots of them) the reality is the market has changed and unfortunately there is always a sacrificial lamb and we now what they are. On a global basis the Aussie numbers are simply too small and no matter what they do it will always be that way.

Your a bean counter Rodge, how long can you last if you earn $100.00 a week but it cost you $140.00 to live?

[jmack]

Originally Posted by Rodge

That's it really isn't it ! Plenty on here call themselves true blue blood and have never directly supported Ford with a brand new Falcon or FPV .

if people dont buy second hand ones then people wont buy new ones,1 needs the other.on the same subjuct how many people have puchased a new home to help the building industry