Police may take fingerprints from drink-drivers in bid to help solve serious crimes

[csv8]

Police may take fingerprints from drink-drivers in bid to help solve serious crimes

by: Thomas Chamberlin From: The Sunday Mail (Qld) June 03, 2012 12:00AM


Lawyers and civil libertarians have slammed the fingerprinting proposal as unnecessary, describing it as a "classic warning sign that liberties are about to be eroded''. Source: The Courier-Mail
POLICE want to treat drink-drivers as criminals, asking for the power to take fingerprints from all motorists caught over the .05 limit.

The plan means upgrading the seriousness of drink-driving from a traffic offence to a criminal one.

Police say fingerprinting drink-drivers will help them solve serious crimes and the State Government has confirmed it will consider the controversial proposal.

Police Minister Jack Dempsey told The Sunday Mail there was "merit'' in the police request.

New South Wales police already have the power to fingerprint those pulled over for driving under the influence and almost all drink-drivers are printed.

Police Union president Ian Leavers said it "made sense'' to take fingerprints.

Mr Leavers said courts gave penalties for drink-driving similar to those handed out for criminal offences, such as minor assaults.

fingerprint databases were routinely used to process prints found at crime scenes.

He said the prints of those caught drink-driving and for other traffic offences helped catch crooks.

Police cite the case of "Mr Stinky'' rapist and murderer Raymond Edmunds as an example of where fingerprinting helped catch a killer.

NSW Police fingerprinted Edmunds in 1985 after he exposed himself. His prints were matched with those found at Victorian crime scenes dating to the 1960s.

Other states do not automatically fingerprint drink-drivers.

In Victoria and South Australia, drink-drivers are fingerprinted if arrested after committing a criminal offence such as dangerous driving.

In the Northern Territory and Western Australia anyone arrested is fingerprinted but some drink-drivers receive a summons to appear.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226381444471
My comment..we aren't a Police State,

[deesun]

I see the outrage on here when someone sees their pride and joy stolen and in some circumstances via home invasion. If recovered and the prints are still on the car, how would you feel if the thief was let go without being fingerprinted because the police werent allowed to.

[gtxb67]

as long as they do it for drivers on drugs as well, i have no problem with it

[csv8]

Originally Posted by THE SLUG

Yeah, for sure. Ford and Holden are in trouble, especially Ford for not having a V8 luxury sedan!

Thats a totally different scenario..Gremlins in the system reply is too deeshun don't know how The Slug comment got here !!!

[AU Mont]

imo the whole adult population should be fingerprinted to discourage crimes and to make solving them alot easier

unless your prints are on a murder weapon laying in the bush somewhere, people should have no issue with this?

your phone/internet/expenditure/work/rental history is already as private as a set of boobs in a wet t-shirt comp, so fingerprint database pales in comparision

[Carrie On]

Originally Posted by AU Mont

imo the whole adult population should be fingerprinted to discourage crimes and to make solving them alot easier

unless your prints are on a murder weapon laying in the bush somewhere, people should have no issue with this?

your phone & internet is already as private as a set of boobs in a wet t-shirt comp, so fingerprint database pales in comparision

Provided of course that we can trust government not to sell our extremely personal information to corporations. Does the same "no need to worry unless you're guilty" approach apply to the concept of a universal DNA database? I think there needs to be a lot more thought and serious safeguards put in place before the inception of any type of universal gathering of forensic identification.

[AU Mont]

something would have to be done to make it work

also, i obviously dont want a knock on the door becuase my print was on a wall somewhere where a dead body happened to be dumped lol

[nstg8a]

i dont see how its a issue anyway, drink drivers are criminals, and should be finger printed anyway.

and fwiw, i wouldnt have any real issues with a nationwide fingerprint database.

[babyf6]

Bout bloody time.

[Chopped]

Seems like a good idea to me. I actually thought they already did, as it is a criminal offence.

I wonder if it will cause the true crims to be more desperate in avoiding an RBT.

[graham7773]

Excellent idea and a step further as noted above, national DNA database as well. Might settle the crime rates down a bit. I wonder how many of the crims who do the drive by shootings would have been busted from prints on shell casings? Too much CSI?

[2011G6E]

Good.
Love all the readers comments on there saying how unfair it is, how police state it is to make a driving offence a criminal offence, how it's like Orwells' "1984", how it's not fair to give someone a criminal record for just being drunk in charge of a car, how it's unfair when they're only "one or two drinks over the limit", etc etc.

Hard Cheese, bucko. Take it on the chin, and be thankful I'm not in charge. First offence should be a $5000 fine and loss of licence for six months minimum (no "work licences" either), and second offence should be $10,000 fine, confiscation of whatever car you're driving at the time, some jail time, and absolute loss of licence...never to hold any sort of licence again ever.

[flooded one]

while not all drink drivers have commited buglaries and murder etc. not all criminals are drink drivers. even thou i have no problems with having my prints taken its not going too solve major crimes where people have left no clues etc. to solve drink driving and other crimes we need to adopt zero tolerence too crime and have more serve penalties. not just the slap on the wrist many of these tools get away with. I agree with 2011G6E with drink driving.

[xtremerus]

Has been done for decades, in NSW.

[Dave3911]

In Victoria - the Police can't even arrest someone for drink driving, it's ridiculous. They only request attendance back at a police station or bus for an evidentiary test, at no time do you have to go and at all times you can leave. Of course, if you do, you commit a further offence, but you can't be arrested for that either..... such a silly system.

I had to be fingerprinted as a condition of my employment.... meh, I've got nothing to hide..... idiots who drink and drive can pony up their prints, no problems here!

[Cheese3]

im not a fan, but if u travel to the USA they have ur prints already! so meh

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

In Victoria - the Police can't even arrest someone for drink driving, it's ridiculous. They only request attendance back at a police station or bus for an evidentiary test, at no time do you have to go and at all times you can leave. Of course, if you do, you commit a further offence, but you can't be arrested for that either..... such a silly system.

I had to be fingerprinted as a condition of my employment.... meh, I've got nothing to hide..... idiots who drink and drive can pony up their prints, no problems here!

No what is ridiculous is that hundreds of thousands of Australians have given their lives in wars to prevent the totalitarian ideals that you seem to think are wonderful from being forced on us.

The difference being that they had actually seen what really happens in a police state and you just watch TV and read the internet.........

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

im not a fan, but if u travel to the USA they have ur prints already! so meh

The only ever took my index finger. I have 9 others to hold a beer with. ;)

[I reckon]

Originally Posted by AU Mont

imo the whole adult population should be fingerprinted to discourage crimes and to make solving them alot easier

unless your prints are on a murder weapon laying in the bush somewhere, people should have no issue with this?

your phone/internet/expenditure/work/rental history is already as private as a set of boobs in a wet t-shirt comp, so fingerprint database pales in comparision

in black shirt they are private

[Falconxf88]

Oh *******. I was just about to take up harmless crimes like robbery and rape just so I get hassled less.

[BHDOGS]

I would of assumed this would already be a policy if your caught drink driving take there prints seriously erosion of liberties give me a break the governments had my prints for 5 years coz of my job I haven't been rounded up and shot in the head yet or interned in a death camp flappy me boy just maybe the police state isn't being introduced maybe its just paranoid ********.

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by flappist

No what is ridiculous is that hundreds of thousands of Australians have given their lives in wars to prevent the totalitarian ideals that you seem to think are wonderful from being forced on us.

The difference being that they had actually seen what really happens in a police state and you just watch TV and read the internet.........

Sigh... one of the more noble features of internet fights - people seem to love making the ANZACS say whatever will back up their opinion. Their reasons for enlisting and fighting were as many and varied as the individuals themselves, not to mention the wars.

[BPXR6T]

Care factor zero. I've already been finger printed and my prints kept for five years due to the nature of my work. If it helps get the scum off the street then I'm all for it.

[Carrie On]

Originally Posted by graham7773

Excellent idea and a step further as noted above, national DNA database as well. Might settle the crime rates down a bit. I wonder how many of the crims who do the drive by shootings would have been busted from prints on shell casings? Too much CSI?

Crime rates have consistently fallen and continue to do so, but I agree, if used properly, this would definitely discourage people and recidivists from committing crime, with an increased fear of detection. Interestingly, shows like CSI affect the public perception of things like the inception of national or universal identification databases (the actual name of the phenomenon is the CSI Effect, not very imaginative, but there it is).

[el_wagon]

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/...5291_news.html
goes to show that people who might seem like small time criminals actually do serious crimes aswell.
I reckon they should finger print and dna drink drivers.

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by flappist

No what is ridiculous is that hundreds of thousands of Australians have given their lives in wars to prevent the totalitarian ideals that you seem to think are wonderful from being forced on us.

The difference being that they had actually seen what really happens in a police state and you just watch TV and read the internet.........

Whilst i was wasting time on the TV and the internet, I discovered that only 102,734 Australians have died in conflict. So not only is your highly emotive statement totally irrelevant, it's factually incorrect as well.

If it makes you happy, you keep drawing that long bow of yours - but judging from the replies in this thread, I'm hardly the only one who doesn't have a problem with the taking of fingerprints.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

I'm hardly the only one who doesn't have a problem with the taking of fingerprints.

I do. I have a big issue with it. People should have a "right" to expect privacy and anonymity in society. Where does it go next? Perhaps the government should keep a record of your internet communications so they can check up on you to see if you have been doing anything they don't approve of.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/gover...0611-y3lq.html

Perhaps we can stick a black box on your car so the police can make sure you haven't ever broken the speed limit too.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by cs123

Perhaps we can stick a black box on your car so the police can make sure you haven't ever broken the speed limit too.

i've been expecting this for some time.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Hard Cheese, bucko. Take it on the chin, and be thankful I'm not in charge.

you just lost my vote. i imagine you are a lot like your avatar, evil laugh and all.

[Bud Bud]

Me I don't really care either way, but it would make my day if a drink driver was subject to automatic finger printing and then was consequently convicted of rape or an armed hold up on the strength of matching his prints (and other necessary correlating evidence) to who they were looking for, but it would suck if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but doesn't that problem exist now regardless?

I really don't have an issue with people being printed as an adult anyway, perhaps as a requirement of obtaining a drivers license maybe, after I have been in and out of the US many times over the past decade and it is their policy to print you on arrival and their Gov agency now has me on file, but the Australian Gov does not! How many people on this forum would not travel to the US knowing that they would be giving up their prints on entry?

They only concern I would have is, how would you like (and intentionally avoiding Godwin's law so I hope other poster’s do to) to have given your prints to Stalin's mob in 1937 or Idi Amin or Pol Pot? At least we do have laws in this country that should protect us from this type of regime you would hope. If you are not in the habit of harming people, then why would you need to worry about it then anyway? (Mind you drink driving is potentially harmful to others though imho)

To the OP, I say bring it on!

Bud Bud

[ronwest]

I'd take it further.

I reckon we all should be chipped at birth.

The technology could then save us from ourselves. A few super computers to keep a track of what we're up to and Bob's my uncle.

If say, the chip included a gps, vid and voice recording we'd all be a lot safer.

A small electric shock.... more a pulse really (no need to overstate it) that warns us that we're over the limit, or speeding, or the tint's too dark etc, is more a community service than an intrusion into our lives.

Think of the billions saved across the board. Police, hospitals, road wear and tear. The sky's the limit. Actually, it'd work on aircraft or spacecraft so the the sky is no limit at all.

There can't be any reasonable objections. There are community standards and we should all abide by them. The chips merely make sure we do.

I'm a fan. After all, I have nothing to hide...