300mm brakes vs 322mm. Is the extra 22mm worth it?

[b2tf]

Ive been looking around for some brake upgrade options for the ute for a while as it still has the standard 287mm disc setup. I was keen on the BF> setup which takes things up to 322mm but the catch is I only want to buy the calipers and lines - not the rotors and pads which seem to be a part of all the deals. I work in auto retail so getting those bits nice and cheap isnt a big problem hence I dont want to buy them with the calipers.

I am seeing a lot of 300mm BA/BF brake calipers available though and I'm now wondering if that extra 22mm is going to make a major difference? I have previously had the 322mm brakes on 2 cars and was happy with them, but just wondering if I might chuck the 300mm ones on the current AU and see how it goes.

What does everyone think?

[RG]

No Tickford 329mm no care.

[raised by monkeys]

Whats the price difference looking like? Surely 22mm isnt that big of an increase, however, in saying that, whats another 13mm from 287 - 300. I say if your going upgrade from AU and you dont wanna go the tickford upgrade, then get 322's.

Racebrakes sydney?

[DW260]

I'll sell you mine if I buy the FG Turbo ute...

[EFFalcon]

for the average street car, prob not worth it.
if it goes to the track, different story.

[adumb]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

for the average street car, prob not worth it.
if it goes to the track, different story.

Id agree with that i went from 287mm to 322mm and you really only notice the difference when you sink your foot into the brake pedal, just normal driving there isnt noticably much difference to me.

Although they do look nice behind the 18"s haha

[blueoval]

I reckon it's a worthwhile improvement if you intend to do hard driving. I was looking at doing this a while back but it never eventuated due to other interests. As others have said, unless you do a lot of track work or heavy hills driving, don't bother and just make sure your current rotor and pad setup is as good as it is.

[Sox]

22mm will make next to no difference, all else being equal.
Pad choice is the most critical aspect of brakes.

[mik]

sox is right, certainly some qaulity pads make a huge difference in stopping power(especially if you don`t care about rotor wear), i tryed street road and track pads on the front,(bloody Magnificent, but at $250 an end they should be), you, could just feel them taking metres out of your normal stopping distance, and that was front only s r t, my stock rotors would still get hot quick though, i have a set bf high series turbo brakes 322 mm f 328 vented rear rotors inthe shed, i`m hoping they should be a little better on the au with heat durability though.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by DW260

I'll sell you mine if I buy the FG Turbo ute...

Yeah I know. We'll talk. The ute doesnt do track work but I do like having the good stuff wherever I can.

[Boza]

Mate I was going to do a brake upgrade than I sat down and did my sums
Do I need the extra stoping power no as my car is only hardly driven on the street no hard driving at all.
Looks good yes but thats just a **** factor again waste of money better spent on something for the interior that you can actually enjoy.
I have driven cars with the stock au setup and with the 32mm brakes and honestly for the street no difference I'd rather go s/s lines and a good pad slotted rotor combo thats my 2 cents.

[FGII-XR6]

22 mm might not seem much but it was explained to me some time ago by casper ( some here will remember him and his ghostly padlock) the further from centre your pads are the greater the stopping distance for a given pad size / caliper force. the reason is leverage and the further you go out the less distance is required to make a difference so 22mm on top of 300 makes a big difference in an emergency stop and gives a firmer pedal

[XLS-5.0L]

It's amazing what a complete flush and quality brake fluid can do

[Sox]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

22 mm might not seem much but it was explained to me some time ago by casper ( some here will remember him and his ghostly padlock) the further from centre your pads are the greater the stopping distance for a given pad size / caliper force. the reason is leverage and the further you go out the less distance is required to make a difference so 22mm on top of 300 makes a big difference in an emergency stop and gives a firmer pedal

I can't agree with this.
22mm on 300mm is a very small percentage. Yes, the bigger the rotor, the greater the leverage, however 22mm is a very small amount and will make no negligible difference.

Pad choice will make a much larger difference than 22mm extra diameter ever will.

You also make mention of emergency stops and pedal feel.

Single emergency stops can be done with even quite small rotors, it's only when we're looking at multiple emergency stops in a row do we then benefit from larger rotors with more swept area allowing better cooling.

And pedal feel is largely controlled by pad material, and to a lesser extent the brake lines.

[b2tf]

Well as it turns out I've got some tickford premiums going on tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

[RG]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Well as it turns out I've got some tickford premiums going on tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

Good call.

[FGII-XR6]

better pedal feel comes from less caliper effort required to get the same braking force . if your logic about percentages were correct why do they go to greater expense making cars with bigger brakes ( needing bigger wheels etc) . the fact is everything adds to braking pads. calipers , hose type , and overall diameter

Originally Posted by Sox

I can't agree with this.
22mm on 300mm is a very small percentage. Yes, the bigger the rotor, the greater the leverage, however 22mm is a very small amount and will make no negligible difference.

Pad choice will make a much larger difference than 22mm extra diameter ever will.

You also make mention of emergency stops and pedal feel.

Single emergency stops can be done with even quite small rotors, it's only when we're looking at multiple emergency stops in a row do we then benefit from larger rotors with more swept area allowing better cooling.

And pedal feel is largely controlled by pad material, and to a lesser extent the brake lines.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by Sox

I can't agree with this.
22mm on 300mm is a very small percentage. Yes, the bigger the rotor, the greater the leverage, however 22mm is a very small amount and will make no negligible difference.

Pad choice will make a much larger difference than 22mm extra diameter ever will.

But what about applying that better pad choice/fluid to the 322mm setup,I know what would be in front in terms of all aspects of braking.All up you recieve 42mm of extra stopping power.

Any person that has gone from a good std BA setup to a good BF/PBR C6 option will reallise its chalk and cheese.

I get what your saying in essance though.

[XARATE]

If bigger brakes arnt any better why were they released?

Ford, tickford, fpv, hsv, Hdt all spend millions of dollars on research and development. They all offer bigger brake packages for the performance orientated car. So if bigger brakes are no better why would they be on offer?

Its all about leverage and heat dissapation
Try this- jack up your car and spin the wheel fast, then grab a spoke as close to the center and try stopping it. Your gonna hurt yourself trying to stop it fast
Now spin again and grap the outer most edge. Heaps easyier isnt it? Same idea with brakes

Around town in built up areas you wont notice the difference between sizes as you will be hard pressed using the full potential of your braking system. But take it out to some curvy mountain roads, country roads or a race track and you can easily push the limits of your braking system. Its then that you will notice the difference in different diameters.

We have a road near home with a 100kph speed limit but for 5km its so windy and the turns are so tight and close that you can never do the speed limit
My ba xr8 with 287mm brakes suffers brake fade in less than 1km
Ive driven a gt with 322mm in the same section and they lasted almost the whole 5km
Now both cars were fitted with dba slotted rotors, bendix srt pads and driven by the same person
The only difference was diameter and it showed

In conclusion lol i strongly believe when your pushing the limits of your brakes a larger diameter system is worth its weight in gold

[rag top]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Well as it turns out I've got some tickford premiums going on tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

Good choice. I did the same to my ute and now have RG's old brakes.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

better pedal feel comes from less caliper effort required to get the same braking force .

Sure, but pad choice makes a larger difference.

if your logic about percentages were correct why do they go to greater expense making cars with bigger brakes ( needing bigger wheels etc) .

Natural progression and heavier cars. That's not what this particular situation is about though.

the fact is everything adds to braking pads. calipers , hose type , and overall diameter

You're missing my point, I'm not disputing the fact that all else being equal a larger rotor will make some improvement.
My point is, that in this initial instance, where the OP had a certain set of circumstances which may have made the smaller rotors more attractive to him, the differences will be negligible and pad choice would have been far more important.
I stand by that.

It's all moot now anyhow, he has it sorted.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by XARATE

If bigger brakes arnt any better why were they released?

Ford, tickford, fpv, hsv, Hdt all spend millions of dollars on research and development. They all offer bigger brake packages for the performance orientated car. So if bigger brakes are no better why would they be on offer?

Its all about leverage and heat dissapation
Try this- jack up your car and spin the wheel fast, then grab a spoke as close to the center and try stopping it. Your gonna hurt yourself trying to stop it fast
Now spin again and grap the outer most edge. Heaps easyier isnt it? Same idea with brakes

Around town in built up areas you wont notice the difference between sizes as you will be hard pressed using the full potential of your braking system. But take it out to some curvy mountain roads, country roads or a race track and you can easily push the limits of your braking system. Its then that you will notice the difference in different diameters.

We have a road near home with a 100kph speed limit but for 5km its so windy and the turns are so tight and close that you can never do the speed limit
My ba xr8 with 287mm brakes suffers brake fade in less than 1km
Ive driven a gt with 322mm in the same section and they lasted almost the whole 5km
Now both cars were fitted with dba slotted rotors, bendix srt pads and driven by the same person
The only difference was diameter and it showed

In conclusion lol i strongly believe when your pushing the limits of your brakes a larger diameter system is worth its weight in gold

And when did the OP say he's pushing the limits of his brakes? He stated that he doesn't do track work.

You need to answer questions in the context they're asked.

[KR1STO]

Originally Posted by RG

No Tickford 329mm no care.

THIS...!!

Great pick up mate..!

Make sure you get some pics up..

What pads are you going to use..? I need a new set for mine before they go on..

[XARATE]

Sox im not having ago at you i just think you have taken my post differently to how i ment it.
The OP asked for opinons. what i wrote was my opinion.
I also live in the same area as OP and drive the some of the same roads. So i thought my comment was relivent.
I said

"Around town in built up areas you wont notice the difference between sizes as you will be hard pressed using the full potential of your braking system. But take it out to some curvy mountain roads, country roads or a race track and you can easily push the limits of your braking system. Its then that you will notice the difference in different diameters."

Take from that what he wants depends on what he is looking for amd how he drives. I never said he was pushing the limits of his brakes, (you dont need to do track work to reach the limits of your brakes) i said it is when the limits of a braking system is pushed tht the difference in diameter is noticable. A simple truthful comment

My post was in context with the OP.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by XARATE

Sox im not having ago at you i just think you have taken my post differently to how i ment it.
The OP asked for opinons. what i wrote was my opinion.
I also live in the same area as OP and drive the some of the same roads. So i thought my comment was relivent.
I said

"Around town in built up areas you wont notice the difference between sizes as you will be hard pressed using the full potential of your braking system. But take it out to some curvy mountain roads, country roads or a race track and you can easily push the limits of your braking system. Its then that you will notice the difference in different diameters."

Take from that what he wants depends on what he is looking for amd how he drives. I never said he was pushing the limits of his brakes, (you dont need to do track work to reach the limits of your brakes) i said it is when the limits of a braking system is pushed tht the difference in diameter is noticable. A simple truthful comment

My post was in context with the OP.

Well, you answered some basic questions regarding whether there are differences, but I don't believe you were directly answering the OP's question within his specific situation (with regards to how he was able to purchase).
It's just semantics now.

Anyway, all is good, we're on the same track (pun intended).

[b2tf]

Now that we've sorted our varying points of view, I'm actually doing a swap with a mate who is trading his ute in. so whatever pads are in there now will be what I use.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by RG

Good call.

Agreed.

[Road Games]

OK ...

Austin i flog the pickhandles out of my N/A.. now dont be confused?

My rig runs 13's and i rip around springbrook most sat nights and the std brakes have served me well thanks to the brake lathe i can rely on for a $30 fix

The typhoon however doesn't stand up to such abuse without being stone ground and a fluid flush with the Brembo's to eliminate shudder ?!

I have happy laps this weekend at QR ....trust me .......the std XR rotors are fine if all other threads we have access too are paid attention to before flogging your car !

You all know what i am talking about ??

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Now that we've sorted our varying points of view, I'm actually doing a swap with a mate who is trading his ute in. so whatever pads are in there now will be what I use.

Bit of a bugger but we couldnt quite get them off his ute and the risk of damaging lines etc was too great, so they stayed on the ute that is getting traded. I think I will go back to the original plan of BF XR8 brakes.

[Road Games]

Sounds good