Do you prefer savage bottom end torque or a big top end rush

[RAPID_BA]

What engine characteristics make for a more enjoyable drive, effortless bottom end torque and throttle response or a big rush in the top end?

We have traditionally had V8s and 6s in the past with strong bottom end torque but run out of steam up top. From about BA onwards we have seen our 6s and 8s really pick up their game in the top end (barra 6 and Boss) at the expense of low end torque.

The holdens with their ls series V8s behave pretty much the same as do their 6s.

Do we prefer an old school recipe of bottom end torque or the newer top end sizzle?

[Simple6]

Bottom End + Throttle Response

[2011G6E]

"Horsepower makes a car quick, but torque makes it a pleasure to drive"...so goes the ancient logic.

Plus, with speed-camera-infested highways, crap conditions on the roads generally, and other problems, i'd rather have a pleasant torquey drive than something that has to be revved to the stratosphere to get any enjoyment out of it...

Coincidentally, there was a column in the latest Two Wheels motorcycle magazine about this very subject. It was about "the death of the sports bike", where we have the situation of 200hp+ superbikes, but nowhere to ride them...in fact, some of them are so extreme that even on a racetrack you can't get to anything like thier full potential, and find yourself being lapped by much less powerful bikes. On the road it's the same question...it's perfectly achieveable to exceed 120kph in first gear. What use is this on the roads? Examples were given of bikes that even the best rider would never get near the "sweet spot" in the power, even on the best racetracks in the world...so what hope do you have on the road?

Same with cars. The animated Tv series "Initial D" about drifters is pretty accurate in the real world...an "underpowered" AE86 can indeed whip the **** of a highly modified Skyline or RX7...all the horsepower in the world isn't going to help you if you are up against an opponent with a well-balanced, well setup, and adequately powered car who knows exactly what he's doing.

Outright power is nothing...oh it's impressive, but only in a theoretical way in the real world...chassis balance and sweet steering is far more important to me I'm afraid.

[Stefan]

Bottom end torque all the way for me.

Look at the majority of old school V8 builds on this or any other forum and see roller cams, highrise single plane manifolds, 4 into 1 extractors, low diff gears. Very rare to see an engine built for torque or designed to run standard gearing.

[XRtowcar]

Give me revs. Probably too many years of driving Rotaries.

[Psi-Pop]

For something that I would drive to the shops I'm all about low end torque much like we have now with the i6. It just makes it easy to potter around at the speed limit without fuss.

Though for a car I'd drive on the weekend or something quick, it's about top end rush. I have what I think to be the best of both worlds, fairly torquey down low which changes into epic torque once boost hits, all in the space of 400rpm.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Bottom end torque for me. You can tell by my choice of engine, a 3V for a daily and a 5.0L windsor for a toy.

Like 2011G6E said, it's very hard to use top end power with todays draconian speed limits and enforcement, right or wrong as they may be. Low speed thrills is where its at.

[Whitey-AMG]

Having had both ends of the spectrum now.....low end torque monster 351 XE ESP and now a modified BFGT BOSS 290.......I think I'm looking for something in between.

The Bottom end stuff is OK but kinda gets a bit boring when it becomes asthmatic after 4500 RPM..........you find yourself looking for more revs and thrills and it just isn't there.

The TOP end stuff is exciting and thrilling and a pity you can't always exploit it for obvious road legal reasons. But once experienced , its addictive and its great to have the grunt there........highway cruising , freeway driving , effortless overtaking without feeling like the engine's going to valve bounce itself into oblivion.

Basically - I think I'm looking for what the new 5.0 supercharged GT is offering......best of both worlds !

[ryanstev]

I prefer low end power.

I drive a twin turbo Legacy, so can floor it and have full boost at 2400RPM.
I barely go over 4500RPM, but it's also fun to touch 7,000RPM occasionally.

[mik]

having both is good, but if i had to choose between the 2 it would be torque all the way, nothing worse than a car that needs high revs just to keep up with traffic or tow something.

[DBourne]

I prefer bottom end torque..

Funny though that Ford (or any other company) will never please the motorist.

If it has a lot of low down torque that tapers off it is seen as asthmatic up top.

If it revs freely and picks up power later in the revs it is seen as doughy down low.

[HULK EF]

torque..

think bf's onwards with the ZF box and all i6Ts since then have a good spread of low down torque and great rush when turbo comes onto full boost

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by ESP

Having had both ends of the spectrum now.....low end torque monster 351 XE ESP and now a modified BFGT BOSS 290.......I think I'm looking for something in between.

The Bottom end stuff is OK but kinda gets a bit boring when it becomes asthmatic after 4500 RPM..........you find yourself looking for more revs and thrills and it just isn't there.

The TOP end stuff is exciting and thrilling and a pity you can't always exploit it for obvious road legal reasons. But once experienced , its addictive and its great to have the grunt there........highway cruising , freeway driving , effortless overtaking without feeling like the engine's going to valve bounce itself into oblivion.

Basically - I think I'm looking for what the new 5.0 supercharged GT is offering......best of both worlds !

Good post. I am sure you nearest FPV dealer will be happy to oblige and you're quite right, with this new engine you can have you cake and eat it too. All the grunty bottom end torque of the F6 and an even harder hitting top end. Unfortunatly as the saying goes nothing in life is free, and you'll find out about that at the petrol bowser

I understand the Op's perspective but seriously many of the turbo engines, e.g. the F6 on offer now have such a wide spread of torque as well as a great top end rush I'd argue there's no need to choose between bottom end torque or top end rush. Diesel engines have their own unique charms but sadly gushing top end power is not really amoung them.

[munners]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Diesel engines have their own unique charms but sadly gushing top end power is not really amoung them.

Exactly. I recently drove a new Audi diesel with a "sports mode" on the auto that made it hold gears longer. I'm sure all it did was make the car noiser and slower!

Munners

[dimka100]

For thouse who want to experience thrils of high revs I suggest to try out the older (original) Integra Type R or the S2000 if you have a bit more cash, both easily exceed 8000rpm with the S2000 approaching 9000rpm. You can also enjoy that at legal speed limits since these cars have very short gearing and don't produce loads of power.

For thouse who want loads of power at high revs (aided with some turbo boost) a properly modified R34 GTR will easily go over 9000RPM and deliver enough power to make baby jesus cry ... mind you it will not hit boost untill about 4500 - 5000 rpm ...

P.S. as for FPV V8s that only just rev past 6000rpm, thats considered to be more like higher part of a mid range than high revs LOL

[castellan]

Bottom end torque for me as that is were you do most of your driving.

The first Holden VT & VX 5.7L gen III were as gutless as until you hit 4000RPM junk but the VY 5.7 was a lot better down low.
The ecotec 3.8L was a good engine but the 3.6L aloytec is just rubbish.

[chevypower]

both, and that's exactly what I thought Ford's EcoBoost V6 has in spades.

[TheInterceptor]

Low end for me. Love the torque in my diesel. If i need to go fast, keep it in boost at bout 2000rpm and not rev over 3100rpm. You go through the gears real fast.

I do love high revs though, mainly for the sound and drive, not power. Not in a diesel of course..

[V8XTasy]

I like the low end torque of the 3v V8 below 3000rpm. Don't really want to rev higher than that for day to day driving.

[RAPID_BA]

People can't say that when they stepped out of their efi windsor or efi holden V8 and into a boss V8 or LS1 for the first time they weren't red faced and knocked senceless by the top end power these engines made (in comparison). You were embarrassed thinking your efi windsor or efi holden V8 was a performance car.

Yet grandpa would drive them (boss V8 or ls1) and wouldn't know what all the fuss was about, swearing the old V8 was better.

[Josh_XC]

Nothing beats low end torque, but in saying that I do like the 260/290 boss with little low end torque but once the rev's rise it give you a nice rush.

[MNM96]

I go for personality, eye's and then a nice pair of shoulders.

That complete package gives me a top end rush!

[RAPID_BA]

I have an old magazine with boss 260 advertised "the boss" saying it has massive low end torque. Hmmmm not sure about that. Also all the claims that xr6t ba has 450nm from 1900rpm just isn't true.

Both the boss and xr6t feel a little short down low but explode into horsepower up top.

By comparison the older efi 8s can sound like they have big horsepower and feel like a big motor is under the hood when plotting around but then they don't rev. Its really like someone turns the shower off all of a sudden when they hit past 4500rpm

[f1tzy]

Chunky midrange with top end rush for me. All low down is boring when it runs out of puff and all top end is annoying having to always have the revs up in day to day driving

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

I have an old magazine with boss 260 advertised "the boss" saying it has massive low end torque. Hmmmm not sure about that. Also all the claims that xr6t ba has 450nm from 1900rpm just isn't true.

Both the boss and xr6t feel a little short down low but explode into horsepower up top.

By comparison the older efi 8s can sound like they have big horsepower and feel like a big motor is under the hood when plotting around but then they don't rev. Its really like someone turns the shower off all of a sudden when they hit past 4500rpm

Could that just be the ECU tuning cutting the torque in low gears?

Personally i get a bit tired of keeping it under a quarter throttle, at least with an auto, so i think i'll go with top end rush.

[SteveJH]

High revving engines sound better, so high revs have my vote, but if I could have both, i'd take them.

[jpd80]

While i really like the 4.0 I-6 in my FG, I wouldn't be broken up if Ford went
to the US 3.7 V6, I think that engines is superior to the Holden SIDI 3.6.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Both of them.3000rpm stall,850+nm and 3.7s makes for nice torque spread.Makes trction an option not a given.The 345rwkw does the rest after that.

[Ford_The_Win]

Bottom end torque all the way! It comes in more handy in every day life - not like you'd be hitting 4000 RPM in city traffic. I can appreciate where the top end power is better, but I do like just being able to touch the accelerator and go, rather than dig my foot in. I prefer just to putter around under 1800 RPM, makes for more relaxed (and economical) driving.

[Perko]

Good torque and midrange. Hence why Herrod cams are being booked in at the end of the year.