Help me settle argument (Holden based)

[RedHotGT]

Hey guys...

I've got a good mate of mine who is a Holden Nut ( : ) and we arguing about the origins of the Holden Commodore...

I was basically trying to explain to him that the original commodores (VB VC) were infact based entirely from a european car from Vauxhall... infact they are the same car...

The same was said about the VN version of the commodore, which was again based on Vauxhall cars...

He claims that the Euro's copied the Australian Designed and Built Commodore... and I'm saying that Holden basically just used the GM links thru Vauxhall and Opel and copied the whole car from something that was already made/designed...

See the following photos - there is no doubt that they are the same car (front and rear differences with lights and grill) but look at the doors, and shapes/sizes... they are the same...

Can anyone help me out??

Below: Opel Senator 1983/1984

Below: Vauxhall Carlton 1978

Below: Vauxhall Carlton Wagon 1979

Below: Holden VB Commodore 1979

Below: Vauxhall Carlton 1989

Below: Vauxhall Carlton 1990

Below: Holden VN Commodore 1990 (Vacationer - wicked!)

Below: Lotus Carlton 1991

Below: HSV VP Clubsport 1992


Hopefully you can see the link between the cars... and this kinda makes sense!!

Comments, Help me out??
Cheers - Loftie

[Fordman1]

Commodore was originally based on the Opel design.

Google the models and their release dates, that should give you some ammo !

[irlewy86]

Up until VE all commodores were based of the european large car platform. Your friend is mis-informed like most/all Holden owners.

If you look closely at James Bonds "tomorrow never dies" (the one with the remote control BMW) they blow a Statesman looking Opel up. Entertainment at its best.

[R-Design]

Aussie Aussie Aussie... No No No!

[uranium_death]

Well this thread is basically done...

As Stan said, every model until the VE was based on an Opel design.

So football, meat pies, kangaroos and Opel Cars to you!

[flappist]

You have come to AFF to SETTLE an arguement....????????

As stated above there is plenty of ammo about. I remember when the commos first came out how Holden actually pushed the european design theme being superior to Falcon etc.

[Polyal]

OMG get that poor Lotus away from the rest of that rubbish.

But as above, during the 80's both Ford and Holden drew inspiration from the euro's.

Difference is, and still to this day, Holden did it the cheap way and Ford made their own version. The Granda was slated around the XD timing but just didn't cut it.

[Road_Warrior]

I got an idea the Kingswoods were based on some sort of Opel as well...

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Polyal

OMG get that poor Lotus away from the rest of that rubbish.

Agreed! The only car up there I'd consider owning.

[Fev]

Love the Lotus Carlton, it's got awesome specs on the sheet and that 5th Gear chick likes it just as much as me(but she gets to drive one :()

[zetec]

I've got very bad news for him....

Give him a Warm Beer, show him this link and watch his heart stop beating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Commodore

[zetec]

Also - VE isn't entirely original either.

It's still heavily based on a European Car...

[MickyB]

That's gold zetec

[Jim Goose]

The orginal VB Commiedore was also available as a 4cyclinder which quickly disappeared from the aussie market. This (virtually) same engine was the one fitted to the Opel product in Europe.

Last year I spoke to a car dealer in Brissy who was a car nut (holden one too) and he told me of a rumoured story that the orginal prototype Commodores were still around somewhere up until the 1990s.

These cars were imported to Australia and then had the front sheet metal replaced, interiors, suspensions etc. done here in Australia.

They never carried compliance plates and eventually were sold off, instead of being scrapped.


The Torana and even the Gemini were all based on European designs...
Opel CADET I think was the Gemini...

[Jim Goose]

Opel KADETT oops.... The gemini was based on this.

All versions of the ASTRA are also based on the OPEL KADETT.

Holden Calibra... an OPEL

Torana.. an OPEL

Vectra... a Vauxhall

The Barina... an OPEL

The 2 door Brock Mobile..... an OPEL

The list is endless..

[Ghiadude]

Holden fans never cease to amaze me with how little they actually KNOW as opposed to the rubish that theyve heard from other red sheep. I am a biased ford fan but will not argue a ford fact without researching a little bit about it first. shhhhheeeeeeesh!

[Road_Warrior]

There were 2 4 cylinder engines available in the Commodore as I recall. The Opel motor (the horrible one) was in the early Commodores and later they used a version of the 202 with 2 cylinders cut off. Which one of these was the Misfire, err, Starfire?

[351@GT]

short 202 was the starfire

[dannyxm]

Urghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

many a time i have tried to simply inform Holden idiots about such things.

then they reply by saying

"arghhhhhh but 'olden is 'stralian, not like yanky crap ford'' - insert vasts amounts of bogan voice / accent here.

[jpd80]

Loftie,
Telll your mate that the Aussie commodore was a combination of two different European cars.
Holden took the Opel Rekord and added the Opel Senator's longer nose to it to get sufficient length
for the Inline 6. They then did a lot of work upgrading and strengthening the front end to take a V8.
After that, the V-car platform was adopted in Europe and Australia, even Cadillac had the Catera for a while too but the VE proves Holden should have kept to V-Car proportions and kept the weight down..

[Spitfire 6.2]

Look familiar........ its the Opel Ascona, better known as the infamous Holden Camira/Gemini.

[sk8xr8]

Originally Posted by danny351

"arghhhhhh but 'olden is 'stralian, not like yanky crap ford'' - insert vasts amounts of bogan voice / accent here.

hahahahahahahahahahaha...

so true

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GT-Mark

Look familiar........ its the Opel Ascona, better known as the infamous Holden Camira/Gemini.

........................... :
........ its the Opel Ascona,


That's just plain nasty......

[302 XC]

OH !!!
the ol camira
we all hate them now
werent they "car of the year"and a best seller ????

[outback_ute]

Current Aust Muscle Car mag has a story on the first Group C racing Commodore, I haven't read it yet but I expect they would cover the background of the Commodore, and would be a good non-internet source.

Not to mention that the very first 48/215 Holden was designed in the US. First five prototypes were built there, and were/are not registered as "Holden"

[Mansal]

Originally Posted by zetec

Also - VE isn't entirely original either.

It's still heavily based on a European Car...

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Opel KADETT oops.... The gemini was based on this.

All versions of the ASTRA are also based on the OPEL KADETT.

Holden Calibra... an OPEL

Torana.. an OPEL

Vectra... a Vauxhall

The Barina... an OPEL

The 2 door Brock Mobile..... an OPEL

The list is endless..

The first Barina was the Swift, up until the end of the Mk3 Swift, Then they changed to the Opel platform...

[Professor Farnsworth]

regarding the VE, the headlights are remarkably similar to the BA, so not all of it is really a pure design. I wouldn't agree with it being similar to an audi though..

but yes the early commodore's were majority based on the opel senator, the name of which was obviously also taken and used for their flagship later on.

Falcon, Fairlane, LTD, and Futura names are also taken from the U.S. though so who cares.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Up until VE all commodores were based of the european large car platform. Your friend is mis-informed like most/all Holden owners.

Correct.
The VE is the first not-heavily-influenced-by-opel design. And hence its the most falcon-like commodore i've ever driven.

[Rodp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgjtSilW8yM