Spare motor for LS/LT *EBAY LINK*

[Mullett]

Just came across this if anyone in Melbourne wants a cheap-as chips motor for dummying up a turbo install, pillaging bits off...etc

*clicky*

-RM.

[RJO89]

Definitely watching that one. Thanks mate.

[RJO89]

God damn it! Outbid in the last 12 seconds and lost it by $5. Was at work when it ended so had to set a maximum bid prior to leaving this morning. Not happy!!!!

[BlackLS]

No no no no no no!!!

Why did I have to miss this :'(

I was waiting for this to come along so I can replace my valvetrain :(

[Mullett]

I wonder who got it. Probably some bastard wrecker. I would have got it, but shipping would have been prohibitive...

...what's up with your valvetrain?

-RM.

[Mullett]

2nd chance fellas!

*clicky!*

Eyes off the steering wheel and the gearknob! I want them!

-RM.

[BlackLS]

Originally Posted by Mullett

I wonder who got it. Probably some bastard wrecker. I would have got it, but shipping would have been prohibitive...

...what's up with your valvetrain?

-RM.

Money-shifted it a few months back, hit 9-10,000rpms. My mech said I collapsed valve bucket, and or stretched valve/s.

[819_FLY]

Thats always helpful for a car to rev a few grand less than that.... hahahahaha. Lucky it was just the valvetrain and nothing underneath that broke apart, then you would certainly need a new engine

[Mullett]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Money-shifted it a few months back, hit 9-10,000rpms. My mech said I collapsed valve bucket, and or stretched valve/s.

How the hell did you do that? Shouldn't the rev limiter just bounce it at 7ish?

Stretched valve is possible...but I wouldn't have expected it. Normally over-rev will either

a) spit a piston out the side of the block
b) stretch the cam chain/break valve spring
c) valve bounce (not extremely damaging)

Collapsing a valve bucket is more likey, but still weird.

What are the symptoms?

-RM.

[eXtremist]

I believe GMS Spares would have a few engines, give them a try.

http://www.gmsspares.com.au/

[BlackLS]

Originally Posted by eXtremist

I believe GMS Spares would have a few engines, give them a try.

http://www.gmsspares.com.au/

I called them a few months back they wanted 1.5g.

I did it by shifting into 2nd instead of 4th, whilst close to redline in 3rd Clutch fully disengaged for about 1/2 of a sec. I've never did that before ever, and never have since. I just wasn't concentrating at the time.

Symtoms:
Ticking noise from cyl 3/4.
Compression test all good and equal (300 from what I remember)
Very very slight loss of power. (probably because I don't like making it rev anymore with lifternoise)
Didn't notice any scoring or pitting on the cams
Lifter free didn't help nor did a higher weight oil. (mech suggested the oil pump could have picked up something I wouldn't have normally.


Most of the mechs I took it too weren't really interested in taking a look at the engine without charging a few hundred in labour, and others were just going to take the engine out of the car and send it away to be looked at.

But after listening to the car and results from the compression test, most were confident it was a bucket. Hole in block would be somewhat noticeable, stretched chain wouldn't cause a noise on only 1 cyl, valve damage would give lower compression, broken spring give lower compression as well.

[Mullett]

Nice diagnostic work! I'd say you're probably right about the bucket. A hole in the block would have been totally catastrophic, they don't go good after that :P

I'm guessing that the Focus has Hydraulic lifters, in which case you could well have buggered one of them. I've only really played with shim over/shim under setups, and I've seen shims flicked out by over rev...

-RM.

[Imolator]

The focus doesn't have hydraulic lifters it has double overhead camshafts which act directly on the valve stems via selectively graded mechanical bucket tappets without the use of shims. Supposed to last 250,000 kms without any maintenance. Obviously not rated for 10,000 rpm though.

[BlackLS]

Thanks for everyones input, and sorry for hijacking this thread! Imolator, whats the best way to fix this prob. I was thinking to just replace the top of the engine..

[Buzz Box]

With the link for the wrecking 2005 focus whats wrong with it? or is it Shonky Brothers go Ebay?

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Thanks for everyones input, and sorry for hijacking this thread! Imolator, whats the best way to fix this prob. I was thinking to just replace the top of the engine..

It might be the easiest solution, but it could just be a damaged bucket. Maybe it would be a good idea to take the tappet cover off and have a look for any obvious damage.

[Mullett]

Originally Posted by Imolator

The focus doesn't have hydraulic lifters it has double overhead camshafts which act directly on the valve stems via selectively graded mechanical bucket tappets without the use of shims. Supposed to last 250,000 kms without any maintenance. Obviously not rated for 10,000 rpm though.

Good info! Very similar the the setup in my Toyotamota, obviously without the shims it's more reliable and longer lasting. I doubt you could collapse one though, but you could spit one sideways if you hit it hard enough (like 10,000rpm)

BlackLS: you said there was no damage to the cams? I'm assuming that means that you've had the rocker covers off and had a good look at everything, did you lift the cams while you were there? Any damage to the buckets would have been quite easy to see there, you haven't snapped a spring (because the comp test was good), so if the cams are OK I guess that just leaves the tappets. The ticking noise could just mean that you've damaged the head of the tappet, and the clearance has increased from the factory settings, but I would have expected a mark on the appropriate cam lobe if that had happened. Curious one!

Imolator, can you verify if the Duratec is an interferance motor? As in if the cam chain snaps, will the pistons hit the valves?

-RM.

[Mullett]

Originally Posted by Buzz Box

With the link for the wrecking 2005 focus whats wrong with it? or is it Shonky Brothers go Ebay?

It could be. I've sent an enquiry to them, got a good reply straight up, but haven't heard from them since.

-RM.

[BlackLS]

Originally Posted by Mullett

Good info! Very similar the the setup in my Toyotamota, obviously without the shims it's more reliable and longer lasting. I doubt you could collapse one though, but you could spit one sideways if you hit it hard enough (like 10,000rpm)

BlackLS: you said there was no damage to the cams? I'm assuming that means that you've had the rocker covers off and had a good look at everything, did you lift the cams while you were there? Any damage to the buckets would have been quite easy to see there, you haven't snapped a spring (because the comp test was good), so if the cams are OK I guess that just leaves the tappets. The ticking noise could just mean that you've damaged the head of the tappet, and the clearance has increased from the factory settings, but I would have expected a mark on the appropriate cam lobe if that had happened. Curious one!

Imolator, can you verify if the Duratec is an interferance motor? As in if the cam chain snaps, will the pistons hit the valves?

-RM.

No I kept the cams bolted down in place but rotated the crank with a breaker bar. No real markings on the cams appart from whats normal.

I also tried to push some bucket with 2 thumbs and they wouldn't budge.

Its been a few months since though, I'll try to take the cover off again sometime during the week and post up detailed pics of how it is currently.

[Mullett]

For sure. For diagnostics you should be able to remove the cam retainers and lift the cams without disturbing the chain, it doesn't take much, just enough to wipe the buckets with a rag and see if there's any obvious damage. You'll need a torque wrench, and there's usually a pattern to retighten the retaining bolts, often with multiple torque stages. If you can't find the pattern anywhere, just start from the middle and work your way outwards, and do it in two torque stages (70% torque the first time, then full torque, then re-tighten them after a couple of weeks).

-RM.

[Imolator]

I know that the Mk 1 version Zetec engine was a non interference design, But I haven't been able to find out whether or not the Duratec He engine is as well. Seeing as it runs a chain it might not be.

[BlackLS]

According to posts on the net by searching MZR instead of Duratec, they are interferance engines.

Originally Posted by Miata.net forums

I have a blown-up MZR from a MX-5 Cup car in my shop. I set a pair of pistons at TDC, disconnected the timing chain from the cams and attempted to rotate the cams through max lift. Can't.

I repeated the test, but with the valves at max lift and moving the piston towards TDC. The cranks stops moving WELL short of TDC.

The bad news: these are interference motors. The good news: they use timing chains, so I don't believe there is a replacement schedule.

[BlackLS]

BTW thats why I have the TDCi noise as my status... The tapping noise from heads make it sound dieselish

[RJO89]

Minus the torque increase

[Mullett]

Another one!

*clicky*

[GTPaul]

that last one mullett .. I got that one ... its going into a mk1 escort. currently looking for a flywheel to convert to a manual.
Great engine in pristine condition with only 9500kms traveled

[BlackLS]

Will make a nice weapon. What gearbox will you be using?

[Mullett]

Originally Posted by GTPaul

that last one mullett .. I got that one ... its going into a mk1 escort. currently looking for a flywheel to convert to a manual.
Great engine in pristine condition with only 9500kms traveled

Nice work!

-RM.

[GTPaul]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Will make a nice weapon. What gearbox will you be using?

I will be using a t9 5speed that I already have and buying a modified
bell housing.
Im going as low budget as possible so its gsxr750 itb's, megasquirt, homemade wetsump and rear water outlet.

[BlackLS]

Sounds good! What clutch are you after, just standard Focus one?