fg wagon?

[351capri]

anyone aware of any future plans by ford to build an fg wagon, have had a few people say they wish they could get one on gas.

[XR Martin]

We'll be luck to see a FG Sedan much longer, letalone a wagon.

[R0BD0G]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

We'll be luck to see a FG Sedan much longer, letalone a wagon.

whys that?

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

We'll be luck to see a FG Sedan much longer, letalone a wagon.

MY GOD, The negativity in this forum is depressing. Its like James Blunt and Coldplay in a concert together. Pass the tissues..................

BTW, Wagon is a no go. Of that I am positive.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by acosta32

MY GOD, The negativity in this forum is depressing. Its like James Blunt and Coldplay in a concert together. Pass the tissues..................

BTW, Wagon is a no go. Of that I am positive.

Its hard not be be negative when its so obvious whats really happening. Unless the Taurus comes in a wagon version, which I don't think it does, then there will be no FG wagon, nor even an Australian made Falcon come 2013.

If Ford had of planned to put the FG into production one year later than what it was it wouldn't have gone ahead, there's no way Ford HQ would have approved the $800 million + investment it cost to get it on the road. Same mistake won't be made in a few years time when investment is asked for for an all new Falcon for 2013. Low sales figures will never justify the investment costs. It couldn't be any more black and white than that. If sales don't pick up to where they need them to for Ford Australia to make a profit a new model will never be approved.

[SM1DY]

Negativity? Look around guys, there's no denying that everything in this country is going pear shaped. Being naive and pretending everything is just Rainbows and skittles isn't going to make things better.

Reality's a b!+ch, get use to it!

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its hard not be be negative when its so obvious whats really happening. Unless the Taurus comes in a wagon version, which I don't think it does, then there will be no FG wagon, nor even an Australian made Falcon come 2013.

If Ford had of planned to put the FG into production one year later than what it was it wouldn't have gone ahead, there's no way Ford HQ would have approved the $800 million + investment it cost to get it on the road. Same mistake won't be made in a few years time when investment is asked for for an all new Falcon for 2013. Low sales figures will never justify the investment costs. It couldn't be any more black and white than that. If sales don't pick up to where they need them to for Ford Australia to make a profit a new model will never be approved.

BOSSXR8, I presume you work at Ford too, Just a guess. Yeah you are right. FG would never gone ahead if Ford HQ could foresee the past 12 months. The fact remains that foresight is the best sight of all and everyone is an expert. Ford have a lot of expensive plant sitting around idly at the moment and it appears that the next two years are not looking rosy either. Will Ford still be in Oz in 2010?, I think they will, Will the staff bear any resemblance to the current staff?, probably not. We seem to be going through a massive transition process at the moment and one that was probably needed. Anyone that has driven an FG will tell you they are a brilliant car and is much better than the Commodore. Yet Holden keep handing us our ***** on a plate. It is frustrating as hell because we are busting our balls to deliver the best product at the best price and yet no one knows what it is exactly that is 'wrong' ?

Is the car too similar to BA/BF?

Too expensive?

Not what you or your family need?

These are the questions everyone is asking but the silence is deafening. I would love the opportunity to purchase a Territory but I am only 25 with a mortgage therefore a new car is a pipe dream. My old man drives a BA XR6, Will he upgrade to a FG? No, the re sale will bring on a heart attack. Besides, he thinks the Ba is the Bee's Knee's and you would have trouble convincing him otherwise. So what is everyone elses excuse for not purchasing a new vehicle manufactured in OZ in the last 12 months? By no means you are not a bad person if you have not. We are all victims of circumstance. But it is still funny that a nation that insists that Falcons are rear wheel drive, massive v8's and able to tow 2500kgs are going out and buying the absolute opposite!!!!!! COROLLAS????????

I don't know, its late and I am angry............. :

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

there's no denying that everything in this country is going pear shaped.

And of course, well all know exactly how the Australian (and world for that matter) economies are going to be in 4-5 years time when the FG's life cycle ends. NOT.
Who knows, Ford could come up with some miraculous idea that saves the Falcon platform. 4 years is a long time in research and development.
Sure, the current situation looks bleak, but who knows what the future holds. I for one will be buying a large car to replace the EL when it finally gives up the ghost. Just a matter of what's around at the time.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

And of course, well all know exactly how the Australian (and world for that matter) economies are going to be in 4-5 years time when the FG's life cycle ends. NOT.
Who knows, Ford could come up with some miraculous idea that saves the Falcon platform. 4 years is a long time in research and development.
Sure, the current situation looks bleak, but who knows what the future holds. I for one will be buying a large car to replace the EL when it finally gives up the ghost. Just a matter of what's around at the time.

The problem is that planning for an all new Falcon would need to start now, its takes about 4-5 years to get them on the road, and since everyone's talking up a global recession that may take a few years to pass it just makes it look really bad into the future.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by acosta32

BOSSXR8, I presume you work at Ford too, Just a guess. Yeah you are right. FG would never gone ahead if Ford HQ could foresee the past 12 months. The fact remains that foresight is the best sight of all and everyone is an expert. Ford have a lot of expensive plant sitting around idly at the moment and it appears that the next two years are not looking rosy either. Will Ford still be in Oz in 2010?, I think they will, Will the staff bear any resemblance to the current staff?, probably not. We seem to be going through a massive transition process at the moment and one that was probably needed. Anyone that has driven an FG will tell you they are a brilliant car and is much better than the Commodore. Yet Holden keep handing us our ***** on a plate. It is frustrating as hell because we are busting our balls to deliver the best product at the best price and yet no one knows what it is exactly that is 'wrong' ?

Is the car too similar to BA/BF?

Too expensive?

Not what you or your family need?

These are the questions everyone is asking but the silence is deafening. I would love the opportunity to purchase a Territory but I am only 25 with a mortgage therefore a new car is a pipe dream. My old man drives a BA XR6, Will he upgrade to a FG? No, the re sale will bring on a heart attack. Besides, he thinks the Ba is the Bee's Knee's and you would have trouble convincing him otherwise. So what is everyone elses excuse for not purchasing a new vehicle manufactured in OZ in the last 12 months? By no means you are not a bad person if you have not. We are all victims of circumstance. But it is still funny that a nation that insists that Falcons are rear wheel drive, massive v8's and able to tow 2500kgs are going out and buying the absolute opposite!!!!!! COROLLAS????????

I don't know, its late and I am angry............. :

I have the same feelings, it really pi55es me off seeing such a fantastic car seemingly fading into oblivion, and its seems impossible to see any way out of this mess.

I think its just a case of more and more people seeing small cars can do the job they require from a vehicle now, they might not need a large car to do the things that only they could do in the past. Small cars have also come a long way in the past 10 years. Small cars are no longer tiny inside, poorly equipped, gutless and flimsy to drive like they used to be.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by acosta32

BOSSXR8, I presume you work at Ford too, Just a guess. Yeah you are right. FG would never gone ahead if Ford HQ could foresee the past 12 months. The fact remains that foresight is the best sight of all and everyone is an expert. Ford have a lot of expensive plant sitting around idly at the moment and it appears that the next two years are not looking rosy either. Will Ford still be in Oz in 2010?, I think they will, Will the staff bear any resemblance to the current staff?, probably not. We seem to be going through a massive transition process at the moment and one that was probably needed. Anyone that has driven an FG will tell you they are a brilliant car and is much better than the Commodore. Yet Holden keep handing us our ***** on a plate. It is frustrating as hell because we are busting our balls to deliver the best product at the best price and yet no one knows what it is exactly that is 'wrong' ?

Is the car too similar to BA/BF?

Too expensive?

Not what you or your family need?

These are the questions everyone is asking but the silence is deafening. I would love the opportunity to purchase a Territory but I am only 25 with a mortgage therefore a new car is a pipe dream. My old man drives a BA XR6, Will he upgrade to a FG? No, the re sale will bring on a heart attack. Besides, he thinks the Ba is the Bee's Knee's and you would have trouble convincing him otherwise. So what is everyone elses excuse for not purchasing a new vehicle manufactured in OZ in the last 12 months? By no means you are not a bad person if you have not. We are all victims of circumstance. But it is still funny that a nation that insists that Falcons are rear wheel drive, massive v8's and able to tow 2500kgs are going out and buying the absolute opposite!!!!!! COROLLAS????????

I don't know, its late and I am angry............. :

Unfortunately its the badge.

Put a Honda, Mazda or heaven forbid, even a Toyota badge on it and it would be walking out the door.

[Gobes32]

The next Falcon will probably be a Mondeo. And it wont be called Falcon either so everybody just chill. We can all and moan and say ' I will never buy a FWD car, Ford have lost me as a customer ' But at the end of the day

WE ARE NOT SELLING RWD CARS EITHER!!!!!!!!

Ford either pull a rabbit out of a hat and get Geelong and Broady's up to full capacity manufacturing Focus, Mondeo etc or we keep making the old status quo to keep this forum happy and end up unemployed in three years.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I have the same feelings, it really pi55es me off seeing such a fantastic car seemingly fading into oblivion, and its seems impossible to see any way out of this mess.

I think its just a case of more and more people seeing small cars can do the job they require from a vehicle now, they might not need a large car to do the things that only they could do in the past. Small cars have also come a long way in the past 10 years. Small cars are no longer tiny inside, poorly equipped, gutless and flimsy to drive like they used to be.

Spot on x10.

Has anyone that dumps on the Mondeo driven one? They are massive inside and build quality is fantastic. If you could buy an Australian built Mondeo for under 30 grand, would you? What about Focus for the same price as Corolla? With the indicator on the right side of course.........

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Unfortunately its the badge.

Put a Honda, Mazda or heaven forbid, even a Toyota badge on it and it would be walking out the door.

No its not just the badge. I really did want to buy a Ford when we downsized but the Focus was just too poor a vehicle in comparison to the others. Yes I bought a Mazda which, at its core, is basically the same as the Focus but the build quality and the dealership service was leaps and bounds ahead.

I don't think you will see an FG Wagon - isn't that what the territory and so forth are for these dayS?

[Gobes32]

Territory was supposed to kill wagon years ago. But it just wouldn't die. Funnily enough neither car has had a facelift in the last 4 years.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by acosta32

Spot on x10.

Has anyone that dumps on the Mondeo driven one? They are massive inside and build quality is fantastic. If you could buy an Australian built Mondeo for under 30 grand, would you? What about Focus for the same price as Corolla? With the indicator on the right side of course.........

i wouldn't call mondeo a small car. not by any stretch of the imagination. have a look at its dimensions compared to the falcon. almost the same size!

its all about public perception. every month the new car sales figures get posted on this forum and the small car sales are not bounding ahead like everyone believes. the biggest movers are the suv/4wd segment. not exactly the vehicle of choice for someone concerned about fuel prices.

i own a ba wagon. i like my wagons. i have 2 kids and i don't have to pack everything just right to fit it in like i would if i had a sedan. i must admit though, i will never buy a new car. i can get a 3 yr old bf wagon for less than half price.

don't be fooled by the quantity of cars holden sell either. just because they sell more cars doesn't mean they are making more money. GM are in just as much strife, if not more than ford.

[geckoGT]

I agree the Mondeo is not a small car; in fact it has more rear leg room than Falcon and in the hatch has more rear load space. The body is slightly shorter but his is mostly to do with the fact that it does not have a big long I6 under the bonnet. We have had a look at these and I think it is a brilliant car, high on my list for the next buy. They are well equipped, as fast as the falcon at all legal speeds, comfortable and considerably cheaper to run.

The small cars are the hands down winner on new car sales. According to Vfacts YTD figures small cars = 178 878, large = 90 738, Compact SUV = 66 246 and Medium SUV = 59 514. From this we can see why Mazda 3 really stuck it to commodore and falcon.

When you look at the ford Australia products, they are trying to make a living off two segments that only account for 150 000 Sept YTD sales where a segment they import for sells more than this by itself, small cars. No wonder they are doing it tough. Last years YTD for those two segments was 161 000.

The Falcon is a great car, I like it a lot and given the right circumstances I would buy one in a heart beat. The problem is there are not the right circumstances for me and a lot of the population. Today’s economic climate will make it hard for large RWD sedans, especially when the medium car market now in many cases offers ample room and carry space (think of Mondeo, Mazda 6 and Camry).

This is really bad news, especially considering Ford Australia has just announced it will cut 450 jobs, my heart goes out to them all. The problem here is that I am like most other Australians, I will not buy a car that is more expense than I need to save their jobs, if I had the money I would but I can't. The answer is not to put the blame on the buying public, but to tailor the product to what they need and build Focus in Australia instead of giving that market over to an import. Either that or export Falcon and Territory.

Holden are not immune to all this and Commodore sales will suffer, but they have one advantage over Ford, export. They have developed a market exporting to the Middle East among other markets and this has given the commodore and larger market to prop it up. One answer to the falling sales of Falcon and Territory is to produce LHD and export them, maybe which would make them viable for continued production and even allow them to turn a profit.

What does this all mean for a FG wagon though? Not a hope in hell of ever seeing one. At best we will see a face lift on Territory but never a FG wagon, just not the market for both Falcon wagon and Territory. That is a shame as the Commodore wagon is selling well but Holden do not have the commitment to a Territory equivalent.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

The small cars are the hands down winner on new car sales. According to Vfacts YTD figures small cars = 178 878, large = 90 738, Compact SUV = 66 246 and Medium SUV = 59 514.

this is getting way off topic but i would haxard a guess that the small car to large car percentage is not too much different from 07 and even 06. the suv/4wd on the other hand...

[geckoGT]

Off track yes but in medium SUV sept YTD sales 2007-2008 there has been a small increase of about 1000 cars. Interestingly Territory has seen a decrease in sales by 22% during that time. The big mover in that market is the Hummer H3, increase of over 999% in the same time period (somewhat influenced by the fact they were only released about the middle of 2007, but still impressive).

[Spanrz]

With both Ford and Holden shutting down a lot of jobs / plants etc, I don't see any type of new Falcon in the near future.

If any one has been through the early 90's recession, you'd understand.
If you haven't been through an economic slowdown, read up what a recession does.

The whole slowdown / recession / stock market is about "confidence in the market".
If there is no confidence, there is no business and Vice Versa. No business = NO MONEY / CASHFLOW.

So, if Ford had plans on a FG wagon, it would be delayed a bit I think, going on current markets and sales.
I don't think it would be of any advantage to rush plans of a new wagon, just to compete with the VE sportswagon, when all they will do is put themselves into a large whole, that might involve sacking the whole Victorian operations of Ford.

[uranium_death]

I am still hoping that the Focus will still be built here, despite the fact that it may be looking less likely due to the capital spent on the Falcon and lack of return.

With an Australian built small car, hopefully people can support an Australian product, and Australian "working families". Kevin Rudd should buy one just to stay true to his word, in more than one way.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I am still hoping that the Focus will still be built here, despite the fact that it may be looking less likely due to the capital spent on the Falcon and lack of return.

With an Australian built small car, hopefully people can support an Australian product, and Australian "working families". Kevin Rudd should buy one just to stay true to his word, in more than one way.

Hear, Hear!!!

[Gobes32]

We have all been assured that Focus is on track but two years may as well be a life time away.

[uranium_death]

Two years is a long, long way away.

There seems to be a contract out on Ford with the media. They simply never report anything positive. It's all doom and gloom. That is then passed on to the consumer, who through a lack of confidence (and possibly poor treatment by poor dealers), refuse to touch any Ford product.

If Australia began building the Focus in Australia, I would expect the media AND government to support it, as it pollutes less than a large car, and is also providing employment in an industry that has taken a fair whack in the past few years.

There is a big focus on large cars and the fact that their greenhouse emissions and fuel consumption is large...so let Ford's marketing turn it around.

Australian built, less pollution, less fuel, still a great car...there are positives. The media seem to be blind, let then know about it!

[Gobes32]

Fingers crossed the Australian Government see it that way too and do everything it can to help Ford Oz land the contract to build Focus in 2010.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

There seems to be a contract out on Ford with the media. They simply never report anything positive. It's all doom and gloom. That is then passed on to the consumer, who through a lack of confidence (and possibly poor treatment by poor dealers), refuse to touch any Ford product.

I don't think there is a 'contract' rather the stories keep coming out have at least an element of truth in them. Ford is in trouble. Ford Australia is in trouble. They have been in trouble for some time now. Confidence is not the only reason why Fords don't sell. Yes dealerships are a very big problem with the Fords but the products just don't stack up. A car is more than just an engine and wheels - its the whole package. A mate rented a BF Falcon the other day and I had never seen one inside before then. The interior was revolting and it really did feel like Crazy Clarks/silly sollies had started making cars with left over Chinese plastic toys. Trim started falling off while were driving. Contrast that with my old EL (which I do kind of miss actually) and they are light years apart in build quality. Sure it had some odd mechanical problems but it only broke down twice in the 4 years and 80,000 km I owned it for. Once was a radiator leak which was no big deal and the other was a faulty coil. Not what I'd call serious issues. The interior was still pretty much in mint condition when I sold it (except for a seat belt buckle which I snapped when I foolishly slammed it in the door by accident).

I recall getting in BA Cabs and wondering if they'd been built using left over plastic model planes and wondering if I was going to get to my destination alive since the diffs made some very odd noises.

Having said that, the work commodores are just as bad - the fleet currently has VZ commodores in it and the things make all sorts of creaks and groans and to top it all off, I was sitting the in motor pool bay a month back and out of nowhere the badge on the passenger side dash just fell off onto the floor. The car was literally falling apart in front of me. :

The focus I test drove really was that bad. I wanted to vomit after sitting it - even a bloody citroen felt better inside!

The Focus was a good car when we still got european-built ones delivered and mechanically its still a good design. I would be driving one now if it weren't for all of the negative reports I heard about the poor south african build quality. I really did like the way the Focus drove it was just that the whole package didn't measure up.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I don't think there is a 'contract' rather the stories keep coming out have at least an element of truth in them. Ford is in trouble. Ford Australia is in trouble. They have been in trouble for some time now. Confidence is not the only reason why Fords don't sell. Yes dealerships are a very big problem with the Fords but the products just don't stack up. A car is more than just an engine and wheels - its the whole package. A mate rented a BF Falcon the other day and I had never seen one inside before then. The interior was revolting and it really did feel like Crazy Clarks/silly sollies had started making cars with left over Chinese plastic toys. Trim started falling off while were driving. Contrast that with my old EL (which I do kind of miss actually) and they are light years apart in build quality. Sure it had some odd mechanical problems but it only broke down twice in the 4 years and 80,000 km I owned it for. Once was a radiator leak which was no big deal and the other was a faulty coil. Not what I'd call serious issues. The interior was still pretty much in mint condition when I sold it (except for a seat belt buckle which I snapped when I foolishly slammed it in the door by accident).

I recall getting in BA Cabs and wondering if they'd been built using left over plastic model planes and wondering if I was going to get to my destination alive since the diffs made some very odd noises.

Having said that, the work commodores are just as bad - the fleet currently has VZ commodores in it and the things make all sorts of creaks and groans and to top it all off, I was sitting the in motor pool bay a month back and out of nowhere the badge on the passenger side dash just fell off onto the floor. The car was literally falling apart in front of me. :

The focus I test drove really was that bad. I wanted to vomit after sitting it - even a bloody citroen felt better inside!

The Focus was a good car when we still got european-built ones delivered and mechanically its still a good design. I would be driving one now if it weren't for all of the negative reports I heard about the poor south african build quality. I really did like the way the Focus drove it was just that the whole package didn't measure up.

not meaning to nit pick, but you rate the b series falcon after being in a rental and a few taxi's. not exactly cream of the crop. approx 3000 falcons are sold every month and you base your opinions on your experience with a handful of them.

rentals get hammered and hold up reasonably well as do taxi's. i've been around a few b series myself and find them extremely good. absolutely zero issues with mine.

people whinge about quality and materials in the falcon but seem to forget its a mass produced aussie car built to a budget. if the price of a new model is hiked by only a few hundred dollars there is a major outcry.

i've owned every model ford since the xf and every new model was a step up from the last if you ask me.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I don't think there is a 'contract' rather the stories keep coming out have at least an element of truth in them. Ford is in trouble. Ford Australia is in trouble.

I didn't mean literally...just figuratively.

It is the media's responsibility to report all true things, but as I said, it stinks when Holden releases a car and there's a TV show about it. Ford produce a fantastic car, and nobody bites. What more must be done?

Also, how often do the media only report selectively to meet an agenda.
I refuse to believe everything I hear or see, much in the same way I am not exactly convinced that Britt (the Aussie) didn't meet foul play overases.


Many car manufacturers are in trouble...yes, but in Australia, the media has not exactly supported Ford's products, despite them being no worse than Holden.

I cannot work it out.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

It is the media's responsibility to report all true things, but as I said, it stinks when Holden releases a car and there's a TV show about it. Ford produce a fantastic car, and nobody bites. What more must be done?

I think the problem in this country is that when people buy an all new product they want just that, clearly distinguishable from the out going model so as to 'out do' the neighbours.
Sounds tacky but fairly accurate nonetheless.

Now essentially we all know that underneath the skin the VE is a VZ but the visual appearance, although similar in styling points, with the use of flared gaurds and the overall larger appearance, is different enough for even to the uninterested to pick.

The new Falcon on the other hand went the opposite way, changed the angles on the lights, but essentially kept the BFII appearance, so to buy a new FG wont necessarily impress joe next door and in that lies the problem.
The car may be a cracker, but if it looks like the model before it wont work.

[uranium_death]

THe thing is I reckon the VE is a step backward. It's a car on steroids, and along with bigger muscles, it's just hairy, and with more hair, comes a bad smell.

The room for improvement from the B-Series to the FG was limited because IMO the B-Series looked fantastic.
The FG looks modern and different enough to me to know it is a Falcon, without it looking like it's been injecting itself.

Sometimes I almost believe that if Holden released the AU and Ford the VT, the AU would have been a best-seller, while the VT would have failed in comparison.

There is a pro-Holden mindset in this country it appears, and while people are free to prefer Holden, I mean it in the respect that it's almost like a pack of sheep, or ants that just follow each other.

The FG is a good car, but the media have not embraced it like the VE, despite it being superior in many respects.