racing with the manual

[BENXR6T]

interested to hear thoughts on how consistant people can get their manuals to run down the quarter.

would it be possible to race a manual in super street, considering you had a good grip, and a good clutch? how consistant would the times be?

[EXR8ED]

Put it this way I aint the most seasoned racer but on my first race meet (AFF Charity drag day 2007) I came runner up in my bracket and can pretty much run within a 10th pass after pass. Manual definatly takes more skill but if you are any good at stick then you'll be as consistant as the next bloke. Haveing said that I did give it too much and dumpped the clutch (not a good idea) and distroyed a diff at the AFF nats just passed. Didn't run at all after that.lol. My point here is its a ballancing act off the line and after that its just how good you are through the gears. As far as super street is concerned I wouldn't have the foggiest. Better if someone with more knowledge on the subject answer that one.

Cheers
Glenn

[superroo]

You can get it pretty consitent, if you know the car, and know what it likes. As long as you can shift pretty well then you can run consistent.

The only things with a manual at the strip, is for fast times mechanical sympathy goes out the window. Drive it like it's a stolen hire car.

Cheers

[EXR8ED]

Originally Posted by superroo

The only things with a manual at the strip, is for fast times mechanical sympathy goes out the window. Drive it like it's a stolen hire car.

Cheers

AMEN to that. This is where my balancing act comment comes into play. Know how much is to much (which sometimes you find out the hard way) and how much is to little.

Cheers
Glenn

[Craig]

It all comes down to how well you know your car and how you adapt to the conditions. Lots of practise helps that's for sure.

[paddy351]

Well i will find out in september at the Ford Nationals. Know your car and give it the beans. But there is nothing like hearing a fast manual car run down the strip. :eclipsee_

[ebxr8240]

High power ?? Auto's are far more consistant and reliable..
Changing clutch plates is no easy task...
Yes I have a manual...

[GTP owner]

Practice and anything that makes it easier to run will help. I ran runner up in the super sedan series in Tas with a manual. I used a shift light, had a set launch rpm, set length of burnout, set staging routine etc. I could run 11.6 day in and day out.

[tweeked]

Last time out i had 4 runs, one 12.6 three 12.7s. You just have to get to know your car.

[Quadcams]

Originally Posted by superroo

You can get it pretty consitent, if you know the car, and know what it likes. As long as you can shift pretty well then you can run consistent.

The only things with a manual at the strip, is for fast times mechanical sympathy goes out the window. Drive it like it's a stolen hire car.

Cheers

Yeah mate you hit the nail on the head, complete disregard for the driveline if you want good numbers and consistency in a manual.

The main thing about manuals is setup, from the clutch to suspension to tyres but the end of the day manuals are at the mercy of track conditions. Manuals can be very track sensitive, I have run on a bad track with 10" slicks and had wheelspin in 3rd gear was hairy but fun and struggled for a number and consistency but get a good track and it all comes together, last time out I ran 60ft's between 1.63 and 1.67 and ET's between 11.94 and 11.87 over 6 passes. As other said get a good setup and knowing your car, learning track conditions (a very important point) and "alot" of practice you can be consistent in a manual but be prepared for breakages.

They are definitely a challenge no doubt about it but those launchs in the 1.6 range are very addictive, me just cant get enough.
There was a guy a few years back that was Australian champion in Super Street in a manual, can't remember his name but goes to show it can be done but definitely at more of a cost than a auto of course.

Myself find it very rewarding getting results in a manual because no matter who you are its not easy at all and if you go out to the strip you will see many a manual driver having a real hard and disappointing time trying to run a number, times all over the place but if you have persistence and patience you can do it, oh and a bit of a healthy wallet helps too to sort out them breakages which will be inevitable as they can be a big deterrent.

All I can say is dont die wondering!!

[GTP370]

Tell ya what; the amount of money I have spent recently to achieve consistency - I better get consistency!

[northey]

Most of my racing life was autos but I did run a manual for a couple of years. They can be very consistent but it means getting a good setup and then learning to drive consistently.
I.e. finding what the car likes to launch at and then the best place (revs) for gear changes. The car tells the driver what it can do; it's up to the driver to work with that.

If the driver wants to dump a 3600 lb clutch at 7000rpm and the drivetrain isn't built for it then; well you know the rest.

I would build an engine with a lot of torque (more than most engine builders wold aim at) at lower revs, especially if it's a heavy car. It may mean doing without some top end power (less mph) but if the car's easier on it's parts and still et's well you get there first anyway.

I used to run the lightest clutch plate pressures the car could cope with; it's easier on the drivetrain.

Autos are definitely easier on the car, usually more consistent and cheaper once they're set up providing you do a good one to start with.

Talk to the blokes that run them if you find one and see what they run then fit it. Ask what clutch pressures and sizes they run; what work they do to inside the gearbox to help it change. Tyre size and pressures (amount of grip in other words) make a big difference to drivetrain longevity.

[BENXR6T]

thanks for the response guys

its something im certainly considering when i get the ute up to 12 sec pace. its a good feeling knowing that a guy won the super street title in a manual - proves it can be done.

i mean, really, to be competitive, you need to be within a tenth of your dial in. i'l get a bit of practice down, and see how i go

[billkara]

or just drive like this guy and hope everythin stays in one piece.... hehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWPgV...eature=related

[TruBlu351]

Originally Posted by billkara

or just drive like this guy and hope everythin stays in one piece.... hehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWPgV...eature=related

Hah! He was lucky. I drive it like this guy and now the car is in casualty!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfGMaWh4B9A

With a manual....for racing only, the best clutch is something with a low base pressure which builds with centrifugal weights as the rpm climbs. This allows some built in slip which absorbs some of that initial driveline shock and allows parts to survive. A sacfificial clutch disc is way cheaper that going thru gearboxes & other parts.

Ideally, I want an adjutable clutch you can access thru the bellhousing with separate street/strip settings.

Lots of the street clutches these days have huge base pressures and are like on/off switches which cause most of the problems.

[billkara]

haha nice... im guessing youll be investing is a tailshaft loop?? hehe

[TruBlu351]

Yep, highly recommend a tail shaft loop too.....I'll put that in soon! It was a PITA to occy strap up to get back to the pits......didn't want to pull the whole shaft out as I didn't have an output shaft plug to hold the oil in.

[Rural 351]

Originally Posted by BENXR6T

interested to hear thoughts on how consistant people can get their manuals to run down the quarter.

would it be possible to race a manual in super street, considering you had a good grip, and a good clutch? how consistant would the times be?

A manual is great ive been racing with one off and on for the last 25 years and won quite a few things, the last WSID nostalgias was won with my manual, just do the same thing every run and get plenty of track time.

[GASXR6]

I won nationals super street, goldenstates super street and nearly australian number one with a bunky old top loader.

broken axles, broken 9", and numerous uni's. Just tamed the rpm down to stop the carnage.

My race car now has a glide with transbrake and it's awesome. Like chalk and cheese. But just running an auto won't stop the carnage if you don't have the right driveline.

[Quadcams]

Originally Posted by GASXR6

I won nationals super street, goldenstates super street and nearly australian number one with a bunky old top loader.

broken axles, broken 9", and numerous uni's. Just tamed the rpm down to stop the carnage.

My race car now has a glide with transbrake and it's awesome. Like chalk and cheese. But just running an auto won't stop the carnage if you don't have the right driveline.

Well done mate, awsome effort in a manual.

[GASXR6]

Originally Posted by Quadcams

Well done mate, awsome effort in a manual.

thanks for that, You don't really appreciate how hard it is to swing off a stick until you pedal a car with tansbrake, electric shifter dlay box etc.
It definately is a fine line and no where near as forgiving. Still a rush to drive the auto though!!!

[GASXR6]

Of recent times I raced my tow car (BA XR8 6 speed manual ute) at Perth Motorplex's Fast Fridays in the OZ EFI bracket and won 2 meetings, runner up at 2 , 2 semi finals and 2 quarters. Runs consistant 13.9's with dunlop sp whatever the standard tyres are with 40 lb's in them.

A very fine line on what rpm to leave at, but once you figure it out just do the same every time. Changed at 5,300 rpm every change and thats that!

[Quadcams]

Originally Posted by GASXR6

A very fine line on what rpm to leave at, but once you figure it out just do the same every time. Changed at 5,300 rpm every change and thats that!

On the money there, become a robot, once you get your technique down pat.