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Old 04-04-2010, 12:59 AM   #91
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Bag The Commodore all you like, but at the end of the day it still out sell the falcon, so it cant be to bad if the Australian public want to keep the Aussie icon alive.
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Old 04-04-2010, 01:20 AM   #92
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That same public are also buying lots of i30s and toyotas and this is a ford forum bagging commodores is what we do
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Old 04-04-2010, 01:27 AM   #93
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Should bag rice instead, after all Commodores are rwd cars like Falcons.
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Old 04-04-2010, 02:08 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback
Bag The Commodore all you like, but at the end of the day it still out sell the falcon, so it cant be to bad if the Australian public want to keep the Aussie icon alive.
And Britney Spears sells millions of albums worldwide, far more than many talented musicians who write their own songs, play instruments and can sing without the need for electronic gizmos to make them sound any good.

People are sheep. Though the Commodore is still a good car, fact is that Holden could get the world's biggest baked-bean can, put a lawn-mower engine into it and have pretty lights inside the cabin, and it would still sell over a superior Ford product.

You could have the best car in the world at the same price as the Commodore, and people would still choose the Commodore.

Holden have marketed their cars as 'Australian' brilliantly. Conversely, people see Ford Australia as 'American scum'.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:17 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uranium_death
And Britney Spears sells millions of albums worldwide, far more than many talented musicians who write their own songs, play instruments and can sing without the need for electronic gizmos to make them sound any good.

People are sheep. Though the Commodore is still a good car, fact is that Holden could get the world's biggest baked-bean can, put a lawn-mower engine into it and have pretty lights inside the cabin, and it would still sell over a superior Ford product.

You could have the best car in the world at the same price as the Commodore, and people would still choose the Commodore.

Holden have marketed their cars as 'Australian' brilliantly. Conversely, people see Ford Australia as 'American scum'.
Well ford America did come to Australia and start up a franchise here in 1925, the Holden name (just so you know i said name not manufacturing) has been in Australia since 1856 so it holds a special place in Australians hearts.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:21 AM   #96
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the only real UPPER hand holden has was when ford dropped the V8
IF only they didnt, then as we all know the tides could have been turned
holden did capatilise on this ,(as u would)
i WAS a holden boy and WAS for a long time, until all the deadbeats who drive crumpldores came with the OPTIONAL attitude
u know,, im in a crumpldeore get outta MY way,my cars the best,better than anything kinda attitude
so u can thanks these deadbeats that ive jumped camp
which i had seen the light years ago
older fords have more class , and their owners dont have MASSIVE chips on their shoulders
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:02 AM   #97
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whenever i frequent holden forums, i never see holden enthusiasts crying about the fords.

whenever i visit FF, there's always a new thread with ford enthusiaists whining about this or that about holdens.


What is it with you people?
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:26 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback
Well ford America did come to Australia and start up a franchise here in 1925, the Holden name (just so you know i said name not manufacturing) has been in Australia since 1856 so it holds a special place in Australians hearts.
and if names are that important, neither holden (i assume) or ford are australian and american names. the ford's were among the early settlers into america, and i assume the holden's were originally from another country too

so while, i am being picky, it would seem neither the name or product are australian
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:44 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACK250
That one looks more like an EB GT than a commodore
That is a sweet looking commodore. I don't think I ever saw one with the wheel arches like that. Would be a nice classic car.

Still love my Ford but!
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:24 PM   #100
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This applies to both brands.

There is no Australian owned car brand. They are all part of global multi-nationals. Many Aussies get jobs, but profits ultimately go overseas.

I think we should all just be grateful we have Australian made cars to choose from. Regardless of whether they are 100% Australian made/designed or not.

Being part of a multi-national organisation means these companies may be able to offer better engineered or lower cost components/products from the global resources at their disposal. The fact that Australia continues to have it's own unique products and have it's engineering resources held in such high regard worldwide is admirable. Otherwise all the readers of this forum would be driving around in a Taurus. And Holden would not be exporting Australian-made cars and engines around the world.

The fact we have at least two Australian made options is fantastic. If you happen to prefer one brand, great. It's your opinion, and your money. It doesn't mean everything else you don't like is rubbish or un-Australian.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:28 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZC001
If you happen to prefer one brand, great. It's your opinion, and your money. It doesn't mean everything else you don't like is rubbish or un-Australian.
what you said is true, but this last statement is generally relevant to holden fans. most ford fans have never pretended that ford australia is an australian company. we just suggest that holden are no more australian than ford australia
as you pointed out, neither is an australian company/car - but one of the companies and their fans make an unrealistic claim that they indeed are - it sells more cars, but doesn't seem to make any more money
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:35 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZC001
This applies to both brands.

There is no Australian owned car brand. They are all part of global multi-nationals. Many Aussies get jobs, but profits ultimately go overseas.......

.
Recent history suggests there is little likelyhood of that.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:39 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeldust
whenever i frequent holden forums, i never see holden enthusiasts crying about the fords.

whenever i visit FF, there's always a new thread with ford enthusiaists whining about this or that about holdens.


What is it with you people?
Its a 2 way street. Plenty of Ford abuse on the Holden sites. Every doom and gloom Falcon story/recall gets posted but nothing about the Holdens. Its always going to happen with the rivalry there is nothing you can do about it. Just work your way through the BS.
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:20 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxb67
and if names are that important, neither holden (i assume) or ford are australian and american names. the ford's were among the early settlers into america, and i assume the holden's were originally from another country too

so while, i am being picky, it would seem neither the name or product are australian
Holden was founded by James Alexander Holden who immigrated to Australia in 1852 from Walsall, England.

So yes just as Ford's founder was American Holden's was English.
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:54 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback
Bag The Commodore all you like, but at the end of the day it still out sell the falcon, so it cant be to bad if the Australian public want to keep the Aussie icon alive.

LUV that 1 AUSSIE ICON you almost had me going there
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:17 PM   #106
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just because the commodore outsell the falcon, so wat that makes it a better car ?
fleet sales better trade value ect ect help sell cars
its not just the general public that buy these cars
if the comoodores are SO great why dont the fuzz all have commodores anymore ???
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:21 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerida67
if the comoodores are SO great why dont the fuzz all have commodores anymore ???
I still see quite alot of cops driving VEs around Newcastle. Infact everytime I get pulled over for an RBT it's always a cop in a Commodore.
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:41 PM   #108
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yeah not so many where i live
they have camrys ect
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:42 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZC001
This applies to both brands.

There is no Australian owned car brand. They are all part of global multi-nationals. Many Aussies get jobs, but profits ultimately go overseas.
Not in recent years anyway.
And let's not forget that Ford is investing $1.8 billion into Australia
with new projects and infrastructure between 2006 and 2016.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:57 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calais
About time.

Some more information that may assist here.

The first commodore was indeed an amalgam of two Opel models, the Rekord and the Senator. However this was only to allow local content, mainly the ability to fit the local sixes and eights, but also to allow the use Radial Tuned Suspension on a more sophisticated front end design, and with rack and pinion steering.

Peter Hanenberger also, at the time led the majority of the re-engineering to allow the Commodore the withstand local conditions and engineer RTS into it.

At this time, with the fuel crisis bearing down, the four cylinder Commodore was created and released upon the buying public in 1980 with the launch of the VC, it carried through with the VH until 1984 when the VK was launched. This 1.9L engine was indeed originally a holden 2.85L red six, with two cylinders missing. It was also only known as the Starfire Four. It packed 54kw at launch. This engine was also then licensed for use in locally assembled Toyota Coronas. (Doggedly hated by all regardless of application).

And thanks again to ZC001 for sorting this mess out!


The 1.9L engine was not a red motor cut down.
It was the beginning of the design of the blue 173.
In NZ they got the 1.9L in the VC VH VK.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:56 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castellan
The 1.9L engine was not a red motor cut down.
It was the beginning of the design of the blue 173.
In NZ they got the 1.9L in the VC VH VK.
No - starfire was indeed a 173 with 2 cylinders lopped off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_straight-six_motor

There was a 1.9 Opel 4 cyl that was in the sunbird pre starfire. This was dropped in the interest of increasing Australian content in cars. Toyota corona got the same starfire engine during this period also. Unfortunantly the 2L motor that preceeded it was 1000% better
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:55 AM   #112
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Wow - What a Response....

I've certainly got enough fuel to not only win the argument... but settle a few other 'mis-truths' around re: the General...

Thanks guys...
any more info - keep it coming... certainly very interesting....
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:08 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback
Bag The Commodore all you like, but at the end of the day it still out sell the falcon, so it cant be to bad if the Australian public want to keep the Aussie icon alive.
By no means am I going to be another person to criticize your posting, but you mentioned something very important, "it still outsells the Falcon". As many others have posted already, this may be true but at what cost? They sell the most cars and yet are the least most profitable?
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A G8E would be good if Ford marketed squarely at Calais V8 owners. They need to bring back the walking fingers like in the initial FG ads, but this time have the fingers crushing Calais' as they walk along, with some relaxing background Led Zeppelin music and Marcos Ambrose in stubbies and singlet driving it.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:08 AM   #114
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The starfire 4 was never went in to a LX torana.
The opel 1.9L was in the first months of UC toranas, then the starfire.
The starfire 4 had stronger conrods & stronger pistons and the cyl head was of the design of the blue 6 cyl motor.
So the 6 cyl blue motor inherited the rods, pistons, cly heads of the starfire 4.

cosmo20btt. is on about the conrods in the corona starfire 4. having toyota motor company on them ?
I could not imagine toyota going to the trouble of doing anything but just dropping in the holden made motor in to the corona.
The rods may of been designed by toyota, and made at the start. but i have never heard of any starfire rods that looked any different to a blue 6 rod.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:13 AM   #115
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I was told, before Holden released the sportswagon, that ford sell more cars to the public and that holden do most of there sales through Holden leasing, not sure how much truth is in that. I do know one thing HSV sell alot more cars than FPV. Ford have stopped or about to stop production on the Falcon wagon, what a shame as Holden have proved that a little bit of outlay you can have great looking wagon. Not every Ford fan will buy a territory.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:17 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlered
No - starfire was indeed a 173 with 2 cylinders lopped off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_straight-six_motor

There was a 1.9 Opel 4 cyl that was in the sunbird pre starfire. This was dropped in the interest of increasing Australian content in cars. Toyota corona got the same starfire engine during this period also. Unfortunantly the 2L motor that preceeded it was 1000% better

The corona hatchback of the same years 1979-82 got the imported 2.0L toyota motor with OHC.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:58 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Stoney!
I'll give holden one thin (lotus aside) they certainly made them look more visually appealing...

Also noticed just how different eh VN/VP series is from the car it was based on with different saloon shape and windows. The longer nose on the VB/VC on the commdore also looks better.

Stoney!
Yes, i definately think the australian versions are better looking. is that bias or do our european members agree??
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:17 AM   #118
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I dont mind the Commodore, for me they have always been more than the sum of its parts. They just seem to drive, handle, steer and brake like they are a very cohesive package, they have a lightness to them and sensitive controls which makes them feel very nimble.

Falcon has always been mechanically much much better than the Commodore, but for me that superiority never translated into the drive expierence. Falcon has all that torque but the lazy throttle and tallllll first gear kind of wasted it, in fact Commodores to me have always felt quicker off the mark.

And the Falcons superior suspension which soaks up everything also makes the car feel a bit 'doughy', where the Commodores suspension which doesnt absorb as well makes the Commodore feel more firmer and sportier.

A 4 year old VE Berlina pulled up next to me yesterday and I cannot help but notice how modern and handsome the car still is, pumped guards, long wheelbase, short overhangs, with the cab sat back on the wheelbase gives it a very comtemporary look.

What kind of puts me off the VE is the size, I feel the VZ was a perfect size.

I would recommend the Falcon first, but if someone bought a Commodore I still think they are getting a bloody good car, and Australian made to boot!
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:35 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback
Well ford America did come to Australia and start up a franchise here in 1925, the Holden name (just so you know i said name not manufacturing) has been in Australia since 1856 so it holds a special place in Australians hearts.
Sorry, I just wanted to clear something up. It was actually Ford Canada (which at the time was a separate entity to Ford USA) who set up Ford Australia back in the 1920's.
Sorry to nitpick, but just wanted to fix that misconception that people always seem to have that it was started by the 'American'/US company.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:43 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazen

What kind of puts me off the VE is the size, I feel the VZ was a perfect size.
And much better looking to boot. I love the VY/VZ Calais and SS
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Originally Posted by jpd80
A G8E would be good if Ford marketed squarely at Calais V8 owners. They need to bring back the walking fingers like in the initial FG ads, but this time have the fingers crushing Calais' as they walk along, with some relaxing background Led Zeppelin music and Marcos Ambrose in stubbies and singlet driving it.
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