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Old 16-01-2025, 12:30 PM   #1
whynot
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Default Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

This intersects with a couple of different Forum threads of late. Whether the last remnants of the old vehicle manufacturers (Ford, Toyota), will be swept away by Chinese's manufactures. The price direction EV are heading in and auto emissions standards. And privacy concerns about vehicle manufacturers turning your automobile into a personal tracker.

Looks like Chinese car manufacturers could be booted from the USA car market based on cyber security concerns. It will be interesting to see how this pans out over the next few years. It will also be interesting to see how the Australian Federal Parliament responds.

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WASHINGTON, Jan 14 (Reuters) - President Joe Biden's outgoing administration is finalizing rules on Tuesday that will effectively bar nearly all Chinese cars and trucks from the U.S. market, as part of a crackdown on vehicle software and hardware from China.

Washington's latest move against Chinese vehicles comes after the Commerce Department said this month it was considering a similar crackdown on Chinese-made drones, in the wake of last year's steep tariff hikes on imports of its electric vehicles.

"It's really important because we don't want two million Chinese cars on the road and then realize ... we have a threat," Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo told Reuters in an interview, citing national security concerns.

In September, her department proposed a sweeping ban on key Chinese software and hardware in connected vehicles on American roads, with software prohibitions to take effect in the 2027 model year and those on hardware in 2029. They also bar Chinese car companies from testing self-driving cars on U.S. roads.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2025-01-14/
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Old 16-01-2025, 12:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

Curious to see how China responds as this is effectively a trade war.
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Old 16-01-2025, 01:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

I see some have been having probs with their autonomous driving.... not recognizing red lights etc.
Also owners finding out they dont actually own the battery. Replacement battery costing close to double of car price,
Manufacturers remote auto manipulating speed etc if you dont comply with their requirements.
Sounds like a whole lot of fun!
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Old 16-01-2025, 02:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

'"It's really important because we don't want two million Chinese cars on the road and then realize ... we have a threat," Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo told Reuters in an interview, citing national security concerns.'

Australian government: "YOLO!"
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Old 16-01-2025, 02:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

This is a HOOT !
Glad its come under Bidens last weeks in the aged care chair might I add too funny.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2025-01-14/

Hope we pick up the ball and run with it as well in the near future.
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Old 16-01-2025, 02:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Curious to see how China responds as this is effectively a trade war.
They’ll send them all here.
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Old 16-01-2025, 03:00 PM   #7
Franco Cozzo
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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This is a HOOT !
Glad its come under Bidens last weeks in the aged care chair might I add too funny.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2025-01-14/

Hope we pick up the ball and run with it as well in the near future.
Last time we asked a question of them they kicked off a trade war and crippled our food and wine exports, because we don't learn our lesson we're going to be in the same situation again with them 'finding issues' with our exports at their ports if we try implement bans on their vehicles.
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Old 16-01-2025, 03:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

We don't have a car manufacturing industry to protect....
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Old 16-01-2025, 03:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

sure it hurt Franco, the industries survived, some owner business would have suffered or closed, this is business and the battle your in for.
Infact some re addressed and got new business - there will always be those trade battles no matter your nation is large or small.
I'd sooner we stood up and cop the hurt than getitng run over.
The lesson is sooner or later you got to draw that line in the sand my friend.
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Old 16-01-2025, 03:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

it's interesting, because it's not just cars. It's also software (this year) and components (later). or the other way around. As far as I can see, that's also a ban on Chinese software and components in American owned cars. Not just American build at BYD at least have a factory in the US, but it means Ford and others can't use Chinese parts in their cars. !!
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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it's interesting, because it's not just cars. It's also software (this year) and components (later). or the other way around. As far as I can see, that's also a ban on Chinese software and components in American owned cars. Not just American build at BYD at least have a factory in the US, but it means Ford and others can't use Chinese parts in their cars. !!
Well that would pretty much stop any US assembled vehicle I would think...

Even Thai's labour are concerend about Chinese car manufactures replacing Japanese brands..

From the LA Times late in Dec '24.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...-auto-industry
On a quest for global domination, Chinese EV makers are upending Thailand's auto industry

Quote:
BANGKOK — Japanese car factories in Thailand — which for decades has been the premiere hub of auto manufacturing in Southeast Asia — are shutting down or scaling back.

Subaru said it will stop producing cars at its plant this month. Suzuki plans to cease operations by the end of 2025. And Honda and Nissan say they are reducing production.

The primary culprit: Chinese electric vehicles.

As the world embraces zero-emission vehicles, Thailand has been courting Chinese automakers, which in their quest for global dominance have spent more than $1.4 billion here as of last year to build EV factories.


“Japanese automakers are under significant pressure to cut costs to compete with Chinese brands,” said Larey Yoopensuk, chairman of the Federation of Thailand Automobile Workers. “They are now questioning whether staying in Thailand is still worthwhile.”

Thailand’s government — which wants 30% of the cars it produces to be electric by 2030 — sees Chinese investment as a crucial piece of the future of its auto industry, which now accounts for 800,000 jobs and 10% of the country’s GDP.

China’s highflying EV industry is going global. Why that has Tesla and other carmakers worried

The paradigm shift has become a source of anxiety for Thai auto workers, who have long helped produce Japanese cars and the parts that go into them, including exhaust pipes, brakes and doors. Even if Chinese factories replace Japanese ones, Yoopensuk worried that there may not be a place for him or his colleagues in the new order.

One reason is that Chinese companies in Thailand have historically been intolerant of labor unions.

“Over the past decade, this industry has been booming, with unionized workers achieving better living conditions and high incomes,” said Yoopensuk, who has worked in auto manufacturing for 35 years. “If forced out, many workers — particularly older ones — may struggle to find jobs elsewhere.”

He was also concerned that Chinese EV manufacturers would use more automation and favor immigrants from China and Vietnam over Thai workers when hiring.

“This is an issue we’re pushing back against, encouraging these companies to also create employment opportunities here,” he said.

China’s foray into Thailand’s auto industry could herald what’s to come in other parts of the world, as EV adoption grows and Chinese brands go global. Last year, the Chinese behemoth BYD, which opened a factory in Thailand this summer, briefly surpassed Tesla in global sales.

BYD's first car carrier ''BYD Explorer 1'' is loading cars for export at Yantai Port in Yantai, Shandong province, China, on July 5, 2024. According to the data of the General Administration of Customs organized by the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers, in the first five months of this year, China's total vehicle exports are reaching 2.446 million, an increase of 26.6%; exports are reaching 46.43 billion US dollars, up 19.9 percent year on year.

You can’t buy a Chinese EV in the United States. But they dominate in Southeast Asia


“I don’t think there is any real precedent where those Chinese EV manufacturers are reshaping the industrial landscape in another country,” said David Williams, an expert on labor standards and supply chains in Asia for the International Labor Organization.

Thailand exports just over two-thirds of the cars it makes, with the biggest share going to Australia followed by Saudi Arabia, the Philippines and Vietnam.

Its most important market is domestic, and the news has been dismal. Total passenger car sales in Thailand fell 23% through September compared to the same period last year. Experts blamed rising household debt and increasingly stringent rules for securing auto loans.

Electric cars — nearly all of them Chinese — were the one bright spot, with sales up 11%.

Gasoline-powered cars still make up more than 90% of all sales in Thailand, but that is expected to fall as the government continues its push for EVs with subsidies for buyers and manufacturers.

BYD said its new plant would eventually generate about 10,000 jobs and produce 150,000 vehicles a year. When the company launched in Thailand, its distributor offered steep discounts on several models, bringing the cheapest models below $25,000.

That has intensified a price war that further threatens Japanese brands, which are fighting to keep up with cleaner cars of their own.

According to the Thai government, they have committed to investing more in local production of hybrids — which run on both battery motors and internal combustion engines — and electric pickup trucks. Honda started producing EVs in Thailand last December.

As gas-powered cars fall out of favor, some auto parts will be rendered obsolete, such as hydraulic-based steering systems and alternators.


The Thai Auto Parts Manufacturers Assn. has reportedly estimated that only about a dozen of the more than 600 auto parts makers in Thailand will be able to supply Chinese EVs.

Those that can transition to making parts for electric cars may still struggle to compete with Chinese rivals. Some auto parts suppliers have already shuttered as business has contracted.

Supat Ratanasirivilai, managing director of Thai Metal Aluminum, which produces aluminum-made parts for Japanese and American cars, said he has been negotiating with Chinese automakers since the start of the year.

But those talks have stalled since Chinese companies told him that his prices are 30-40% too high.

“We were hoping that when the Japanese carmakers’ production dropped, we may get some benefit from the Chinese carmakers,” he said. “But obviously they are not buying from the Thai suppliers.”

His company is pushing the Thai government to implement more protective measures for local workers, such as requiring EVs to be built with more locally sourced parts.

“The Thai government is really opening up everything for the Chinese carmakers. It has been very difficult for us,” he said. “I don’t know what’s to come next.”
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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Originally Posted by Dr Smith View Post
Well that would pretty much stop any US assembled vehicle I would think...

Even Thai's labour are concerend about Chinese car manufactures replacing Japanese brands..

From the LA Times late in Dec '24.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...-auto-industry
On a quest for global domination, Chinese EV makers are upending Thailand's auto industry
That's hilarious, after Thailand did it to us with the world's worst trade agreement that killed our tyre and car manufacturing industry.
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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sure it hurt Franco, the industries survived, some owner business would have suffered or closed, this is business and the battle your in for.
Infact some re addressed and got new business - there will always be those trade battles no matter your nation is large or small.
I'd sooner we stood up and cop the hurt than getitng run over.
The lesson is sooner or later you got to draw that line in the sand my friend.
Sure, that's all well and good but if they decide to bite back and have a proper crack, it'll torpedo our economy to the tune of ~$300B. You'll all enjoy an even bigger drop in your standard of living than we're already experiencing right now.

Everyone hates China, but we were stupid enough to make them our biggest trading partner because it was easy, now they have significant leverage over our government.

We couldn't even deal with their temporary factory shutdowns during COVID lockdowns let alone survive a trade war where they actually try.



Thats going to head only in one direction and it's not upward and the AUD is already taking a shit against the USD because China had a wet fart

Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 16-01-2025 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

The free trade taliban at dfat are oblivious to their dream world collapsing into trade blocs

Our govco does seem to get it, as can be seen with their support of new energy mining (and even value adding to that mining) developing a western supply chain for the materials. I guess they want to let Australians get the most car for their $ with allowing the Chinese to take that section of the market in the meantime, no worries about the software or hardware. All a bit of a joke as prices have shifted upward greatly since our industry closed, anyway. Rather have the 20K Corolla in that price bracket tbh
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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Originally Posted by Dr Smith View Post
From the LA Times late in Dec '24.
"One reason is that Chinese companies in Thailand have historically been intolerant of labor unions."
That's just so weird given their govco is part owner of every industrial concern and is also marxist-leninist with Chinese characteristics. But the world is weird and complex.
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

Might help the USA with protecting their domestic market, but you have to wonder how they will compete globally unless they can match price and features.

I just ordered a BYD Sealion 6 Premium. For my use case it's prefect. The wife will use it as a commuter vehicle with 60km round trip to work. Will do that on battery. Weekends for longer trips it will get between 1.5 and 5 L/100KM.

Estimated ownership cost is 60% of a CX5 max sport 2.5. A chunk of that is the soon to end FBT exemption. But even without that it still wins on price.

And that isn't even looking at the features you get, which is plenty.

Only downside is the unknown ownership experience. Our local Mazda dealer is great and I will miss him

No real thoughts on data harvesting as all the manufacturers do it now. And monitoring my wife's antics in a car will give them some amusement.

My actual biggest concern is my daughter who has just gotten her learners. So many drivers aids in the BYD that I wonder what sort of driver it will produce. Might teach her to drive in the AU XR8 Manual ute or the BA
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Sure, that's all well and good but if they decide to bite back and have a proper crack, it'll torpedo our economy to the tune of ~$300B. You'll all enjoy an even bigger drop in your standard of living than we're already experiencing right now.

Everyone hates China, but we were stupid enough to make them our biggest trading partner because it was easy, now they have significant leverage over our government.

We couldn't even deal with their temporary factory shutdowns during COVID lockdowns let alone survive a trade war where they actually try.

image

Thats going to head only in one direction and it's not upward
Go early 90's recession!

We're not even officially in recession (population growth gets it over 0% so no-one can declare 'recession') and the decade of flannel and goon bag drinking and Nirvana is wiping the floor with today for individual suffering.
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Old 16-01-2025, 04:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Nearly all Chinese cars and trucks barred from the U.S. market

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Originally Posted by cs123 View Post
Might help the USA with protecting their domestic market, but you have to wonder how they will compete globally unless they can match price and features.

I just ordered a BYD Sealion 6 Premium. For my use case it's prefect. The wife will use it as a commuter vehicle with 60km round trip to work. Will do that on battery. Weekends for longer trips it will get between 1.5 and 5 L/100KM.

Estimated ownership cost is 60% of a CX5 max sport 2.5. A chunk of that is the soon to end FBT exemption. But even without that it still wins on price.

And that isn't even looking at the features you get, which is plenty.

Only downside is the unknown ownership experience. Our local Mazda dealer is great and I will miss him

No real thoughts on data harvesting as all the manufacturers do it now. And monitoring my wife's antics in a car will give them some amusement.

My actual biggest concern is my daughter who has just gotten her learners. So many drivers aids in the BYD that I wonder what sort of driver it will produce. Might teach her to drive in the AU XR8 Manual ute or the BA
Yep definitely teach her in the manual, taught my son in ED XR8 Sprint manual, he loved it.
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