Next Gen Ranger to be Made and Sold in China with a Couple of Mods

[Warrenk]

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...coils-in-china

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...coils-in-china

I've always thought the Ranger Platinum should have been a rear coil sprung model. Interesting about using a ZF 8 speed, as if it's based on price like some of the posts in the article infer could it be a China-built ZF unit is cheaper than an imported Ford built 10 speeder? And if Ford Oz did the R&D on this model, I'd love to hear their thoughts on the driving difference between the Ford 10sp and ZF 8sp.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I've always thought the Ranger Platinum should have been a rear coil sprung model. Interesting about using a ZF 8 speed, as if it's based on price like some of the posts in the article infer could it be a China-built ZF unit is cheaper than an imported Ford built 10 speeder? And if Ford Oz did the R&D on this model, I'd love to hear their thoughts on the driving difference between the Ford 10sp and ZF 8sp. :

The Chinese made ZFHP8 probably costs way less than ‘murrican 10R, probably less glitchy?
I wonder if Chinese 8HP also has an affordable hybrid version with motor instead of torque converter
(Pretty sure that’s the case)

[simon varley]

"a couple of mods"

that was the design brief for the north american ranger. they better be damn sure thats what they are going to do for china as there ain't nobody left around who can do more than that.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

"a couple of mods"

that was the design brief for the north american ranger. they better be damn sure thats what they are going to do for china as there ain't nobody left around who can do more than that.

Pricing kicks off at $50,000
How can they deliver a Wildtrak like that for $9,000 less than the $65,000 Ute we had last decade?

[kevino]

Originally Posted by simon varley

"a couple of mods"

that was the design brief for the north american ranger. they better be damn sure thats what they are going to do for china as there ain't nobody left around who can do more than that.

What are the numbers Simon.
What was the average number of people in the Ranger design team over the 5 years prior to the big lay off?

And how many are there now?

This is in Victoria.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Pricing kicks off at $50,000
How can they deliver a Wildtrak like that for $9,000 less than the $65,000 Ute we had last decade?

Some $ in shipping and port costs just a wild guess $3500
The rest is govco plus the ''Australia"' tax

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Pricing kicks off at $50,000
How can they deliver a Wildtrak like that for $9,000 less than the $65,000 Ute we had last decade?

To sell it....what's that corporate comment on pricing?..."we price our products to meet market conditions and regulalrly assess these factors".......translated into..."we can charge more in Australia because everyone gets away with higher margins while in China that isn't quite as possible."

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

To sell it....what's that corporate comment on pricing?..."we price our products to meet market conditions and regulalrly assess these factors".......translated into..."we can charge more in Australia because everyone gets away with higher margins while in China that isn't quite as possible."

Translation: a huge amount of “helmet factor” in the price, lubed by an extended warranty

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Pricing kicks off at $50,000
How can they deliver a Wildtrak like that for $9,000 less than the $65,000 Ute we had last decade?

Seriously?

Just a guess but I reckon they could start here from $50k for wildtrak and still turn a profit.

They are manufactured in a mega factory in Thailand. Economies of scale.

Ford are laughing all the way to the bank. They are very pleased that Australia follow US trends rather than Euro trends.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by kevino

What are the numbers Simon.
What was the average number of people in the Ranger design team over the 5 years prior to the big lay off?

And how many are there now?

This is in Victoria.

well, around 600 got laid off this year. that follows a couple of hundred powertrain guys in 2019. You Yangs wind tunnel and emissions lab are now closed.

Much of the work got moved overseas, but North America and Europe have just gone through massive layoffs too.

it's sad, but I do feel we are seeing the end days of Ford Australia as a design centre, and I'm expecting decision in the next few years to movve Ranger work to FNA

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

well, around 600 got laid off this year. that follows a couple of hundred powertrain guys in 2019. You Yangs wind tunnel and emissions lab are now closed.

Much of the work got moved overseas, but North America and Europe have just gone through massive layoffs too.

it's sad, but I do feel we are seeing the end days of Ford Australia as a design centre, and I'm expecting decision in the next few years to movve Ranger work to FNA

Originally Posted by Trump

For some odd reason, Australians have this sense of "nah (XYZ) won't/can't happen here, we're special". Despite some impressive contributions by people within Ford Australia, Ford Motor Company is an American corporation, with an American way of doing business. The American way of doing business is to cut the costs of doing business by any means. Moving high labour cost business units to countries where the cost of labour is far lower is the first rule in the US business playbook.

The Australian engineering outfit at the moment is a necessary evil in their eyes; they are wearing the cost of keeping it running because China isn't up to scratch yet. As such, don't for a second think that Ford HQ won't pull the rug from under the Australian operation when the Chinese engineering teams get up to speed and begin producing work of comparable quality to their Australian counterparts.

Making a comment like that doesn't require any inside knowledge, it's Business USA 101.

This post from 2017 was pretty accurate I think.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

This post from 2017 was pretty accurate I think.

Also Ford are bleeding so much money on their ev s
That they have to cut costs
Have to cut costs
To survive
And satisfy shareholders


And un related
I think peak Ford has been reached in Aus
Byd ute/ Kia Ute/ Chinese takeaway utes will all slowly eat Ford Ute Australia market share

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kevino

Also Ford are bleeding so much money on their ev s
That they have to cut costs
Have to cut costs
To survive
And satisfy shareholders


And un related
I think peak Ford has been reached in Aus
Byd ute/ Kia Ute/ Chinese takeaway utes will all slowly eat Ford Ute Australia market share

They'll eat into everyone's market share, it's more about which brand(s) suffers the most drop or if it's an even drop across the others, in which case market share stays the same but volume numbers drop.

[Adamz Ghia]

While not immune, I think Toyota and Ford and maybe Isuzu will come out alright. Kia, Mitsubishi, Nissan, GWM, Mazda will be fighting it amongst themselves for the rest of the pie.

[jpd80]

Tesla basically has the global electric market to itself , only a small percentage of buyers at other brands
are willing to buy a BEV.

Well, there is BYD too but most sane people shudder when someone talks seriously about buying one….

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Tesla basically has the global electric market to itself , only a small percentage of buyers at other brands
are willing to buy a BEV.

Well, there is BYD too but most sane people shudder when someone talks seriously about buying one….

Do you really think BYD won't be the world's No1 maker of electric cars in the foreseeable future

"BYD overtook Tesla to be the world's no1 electric car maker. BYD reportedly sold 526,409 electric vehicles in the fourth quarter, compared with 484,507 Teslas.
Although Tesla retained its title as world’s number one EV seller in 2023, with 1.8 million customers (up 38 per cent) compared with 1.6 million (up 73 per cent) for BYD.

However, BYD also sold more than 400,000 plug-in hybrids and 3 million vehicles overall."


https://www.news.com.au/technology/m...cles%20overall.

[prydey]

There was a BYD Seal in the local Westfield mall the other day. I stopped to have a look and the young sales guy mentioned overtaking tesla in sales for the quarter. I thought he was being selective with the stats but turns out he wasn't.

It was an impressive looking car too I thought.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by prydey

There was a BYD Seal in the local Westfield mall the other day. I stopped to have a look and the young sales guy mentioned overtaking tesla in sales for the quarter. I thought he was being selective with the stats but turns out he wasn't.

It was an impressive looking car too I thought.

top of the range is $75k otr too. battery warranty is longer than the car warranty. 0-100 in 3.8s and 500km range. Not shabby at all.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

Do you really think BYD won't be the world's No1 maker of electric cars in the foreseeable future

"BYD overtook Tesla to be the world's no1 electric car maker. BYD reportedly sold 526,409 electric vehicles in the fourth quarter, compared with 484,507 Teslas.
Although Tesla retained its title as world’s number one EV seller in 2023, with 1.8 million customers (up 38 per cent) compared with 1.6 million (up 73 per cent) for BYD.

However, BYD also sold more than 400,000 plug-in hybrids and 3 million vehicles overall."


https://www.news.com.au/technology/m...cles%20overall.

I did say the global electric market and outside China, buyers in ROW markets seem to be rejecting BYD….
German buyers in particular seems to have something against BYDs coming into their country but,
maybe that has to do with its own domestic brands coming under fire from Tesla and other EVs.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's sad, but I do feel we are seeing the end days of Ford Australia as a design centre, and I'm expecting decision in the next few years to movve Ranger work to FNA

I would think the design will move to India and China for global vehicles. Cheaper engineering and a better work ethic.

Mind you I don't think Ford will survive the EV transition.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Mind you I don't think Ford will survive the EV transition.

Of course they will.

Just because EV utes and suv's are being made I believe it will be a while before there is confidence to buy them.

Many believe these types of cars are currently not being used for their intended purpose but I don't. I think the majority of them are bought for work or play purposes. How they are paid for is a different story.

Due to that I think it's a while before EV's will be trusted with commercial duties or in the bush recreation.

In theory, they will work but it's not just about range. It's about being able to get back on the road quickly in the event of a breakdown etc.

It will be interesting to see what direction that industry goes in long term though. For now I think EV utes and Everest /landcruiser size SUV's are a few years away yet.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I would think the design will move to India and China for global vehicles. Cheaper engineering and a better work ethic.

Mind you I don't think Ford will survive the EV transition.

They've made a right hash of their EV program so far, big coin for poor results, then instead of trying to fix it they just took their bat and ball and went home, cutting back their EV program massively.

I don't think they have the ability in management for change, its not their engineering team thats the problem, its the way their management thinks and moves.

Its going to be an extremely expensive transition, or they'll be hobbled modifying existing platforms for EV retrofit because of their huge capital investment in tooling, where as people like Tesla had the advantage of having nothing and being able to make things in modern ways and designs.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They've made a right hash of their EV program so far, big coin for poor results, then instead of trying to fix it they just took their bat and ball and went home, cutting back their EV program massively.

But what else are Ford to do if buyers in their own home market are not embracing BEV Lightning.
The change in interest in 2023 was breath taking, the 200k odd reservations for Lightning virtually
disappeared in a matter of months once those higher interest rates began to bite.
Ford is currently building a huge plant in Kentucky to make 600k/year BEV F150s but if
they can’t sell over 50,000 Lightnings in a year, that plant must be heavily curtailed.

I don't think they have the ability in management for change, its not their engineering team thats the problem, it’s the way their management thinks and moves.

This is a big issue with Ford, Jim Hackett and Farley took advantage of Bill Ford’s
impatient desire to rapidly transform Ford into a high volume electric vehicle producer.
As a corporate, Ford is guilty of rushing around like a single focused elephant that
ignores other important parts of its business and when it all falls over, there’s no plan B.

Its going to be an extremely expensive transition, or they'll be hobbled modifying existing platforms for EV retrofit because of their huge capital investment in tooling, where as people like Tesla had the advantage of having nothing and being able to make things in modern ways and designs.

I look with interest to the plans already in place, Chinese Mach E production and sales is a joke,
it’s in the hundreds but Ford can’t bring itself to confess that in official sales figures.
Similarly, other vehicles developed for China only by the Australian team are not working.
The sad fact is that those vehicles developed for China would have probably sold better here…

For vehicles other than Ranger and Everest, Ford Australia is supposed to rely on Europe
but painfully, they cannot supply us with what we want or even their own markets.
A request of interest in Ford Maverick and Bronco Sport was made by Ford Australia
but as far as e know that fell on deaf ears due to parts shortages over the past few years.

Ford has gone back to regional areas looking after their own self interest, ROW like us now
need to be better supplied but how or wher those vehicles comes from is anyone’s guess..