Vfacts november 2020

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

People thought the same about Ranger compared to Hilux.

The next model has styling that will make it extremely appealing, and i'm expecting it to draw in a lot of that ground.

But mining fleets buy a lot of Prados and that will give Toyota the sales it needs to stay ahead. Everest won't outsell it, but i'd expect it to take some ground back.

Yes, but mining like them because of the room too (the fact they buy Hilux/landcruiser/Prado's all from one supplier is also key, its just so easy).

It would be great if we got rid of a couple of other models in the Ford range and got a larger 7 seat 4x4.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yes, but mining like them because of the room too (the fact they buy Hilux/landcruiser/Prado's all from one supplier is also key, its just so easy).

It would be great if we got rid of a couple of other models in the Ford range and got a larger 7 seat 4x4.

I have thought about this before. Taking Everest and making it bigger in width and length to create a Landcruiser rival.

The problem is the US already has large SUV's that could do that job like Expedition. And they won't want to do duplicates, when one would do the job. But that doesn't take into account that they don't even make the bloody thing in RHD

But the reality is the market for a larger T6 SUV is pretty slim, and could never generate sales numbers big enough to justify it's creation.

And they won't build it alongside Ranger in North America because of the duplication. Just like they don't build Everest there because it's a similar size to Explorer. Even though ones a crossover and the others a 4x4. Everest only gets in here cause it's mostly Ranger, except for the back half, so it's reasonably cheap to do.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I have thought about this before. Taking Everest and making it bigger in width and length to create a Landcruiser rival.

The problem is the US already has large SUV's that could do that job like Expedition. And they won't want to do duplicates, when one would do the job. But that doesn't take into account that they don't even make the bloody thing in RHD

But the reality is the market for a larger T6 SUV is pretty slim, and could never generate sales numbers big enough to justify it's creation.

And they won't build it alongside Ranger in North America because of the duplication. Just like they don't build Everest there because it's a similar size to Explorer. Even though ones a crossover and the others a 4x4. Everest only gets in here cause it's mostly Ranger, except for the back half, so it's reasonably cheap to do.

Ford seem to have a dud answer for everything but other manufacturers seem to get the job done.

Im finding it hard to fault Toyota's business model, One Ford had so much promise that they royally stuffed it up.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ford seem to have a dud answer for everything but other manufacturers seem to get the job done.

Im finding it hard to fault Toyota's business model, One Ford had so much promise that they royally stuffed it up.

Toyota have Japan to keep them sustained. Being RHD they can export to us. Ford has the US to keep them sustained, but that doesn't help us being LHD.

But Toyota are a great business. With Farley being a former Lexus USA exec he might be able to bring some of that Toyota knowledge to Ford. I'm already seeing some signs that he is much more open to ideas than Hackett.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Toyota have Japan to keep them sustained. Being RHD they can export to us. Ford has the US to keep them sustained, but that doesn't help us being LHD.

But Toyota are a great business. With Farley being a former Lexus USA exec he might be able to bring some of that Toyota knowledge to Ford. I'm already seeing some signs that he is much more open to ideas than Hackett.

Not only that, he's not afraid to put the brakes on projects he sees as going off course
or out of date because the market shifted more quickly than Ford imagined.

That in a leader is an important quality, sometimes those captain's calls are what gets
the juices going again with buyers, Ford cannot, must not be high priced vanilla products.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Toyota have Japan to keep them sustained. Being RHD they can export to us. Ford has the US to keep them sustained, but that doesn't help us being LHD.

But Toyota are a great business. With Farley being a former Lexus USA exec he might be able to bring some of that Toyota knowledge to Ford. I'm already seeing some signs that he is much more open to ideas than Hackett.

How does Hyundai get the Palisade into Australia and Ford can't get the Explorer or a Lincoln into RHD markets?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

How does Hyundai get the Palisade into Australia and Ford can't get the Explorer or a Lincoln into RHD markets?

A willingness to capitalise on opportunity and a management team who support initiative.

Australia is in the 'too hard' basket, it's also the arrogance of US companies, they have a terrible business culture that the world centers around themselves.

I hate dealing with US based suppliers, hands down the worst, followed by Spanish companies.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

How does Hyundai get the Palisade into Australia and Ford can't get the Explorer or a Lincoln into RHD markets?

This I don't know. I'm pretty confused by the South Korean business model as a whole. Their wages for auto workers are as high, or higher than ours. And I wouldn't think South Korea would be a cheap place to do business like China or Thailand.

But I think a lot of it comes down to being willing to lose money on certain products to build the companies image, and spread their reach.

I have no idea what their finances are like either, how successful they are at making money on car sales. Obviously they have a very strong home market. But they have also admitted they lose money on passenger vehicles here, and only make money on SUV sales. The profit margin on i30's is reported to be nothing more than a couple of hundred dollars per car.

I can't see how they can make a RHD version of a large SUV that will probably sell in small numbers, and make any form of profit on it, let alone pay back what it will cost in R&D to get it to production. I'd love to know how they can do it.

US companies are probably too conservative and risk averse though for sure. I think Farley might change this though. He's saying the right things.

[jpd80]

The Toyota Highlander/Kluger are all made in USA now, Toyota doesn't seem to have a problem importing....
Just sayin'......

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The Toyota Highlander/Kluger are all made in USA now, Toyota doesn't seem to have a problem importing....
Just sayin'......

Was it Jack Nasser (I use his original first name lol) that once tried explaining why Ford wasn't able to do something their opposition could/did by saying "their math must be better than ours"

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

A willingness to capitalise on opportunity and a management team who support initiative.

Australia is in the 'too hard' basket, it's also the arrogance of US companies, they have a terrible business culture that the world centers around themselves.

I hate dealing with US based suppliers, hands down the worst, followed by Spanish companies.

That's why I use local Aussie businesses to deal with the overseas ones...one less Panadol needed per week...

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Everest sales are promising but I cant see it fully taking on the Prado.

The Everest needs to grow some shoulder room but wont while its based on the Ranger unless it too grows. I tried to find some quick specs but its too painful to attain 2nd row shoulder widths.

Everest / Kluger (except Grande) / Prado:

Green is most, Orange is middle, red is worst.

Front Headroom: 1017 / 1017 / 1040
Front Legroom: 1058 / 1035 / 1070
Front Shoulder Room: 1440 / 1470 / 1460
2nd Row Headroom: 978 / 1012 / 1035
2nd Row Legroom: 939 / 925 / 795
2nd Row Shoulder Room: 1432 / 1448 / 1460
3rd Row Headroom: 928 / NA / 925
3rd Row Legroom: 797 / NA / 517
3rd Row Shoulder Room: 1303 / NA / 1260

.. so front shoulder room is a 30mm difference from best (Kluger) to worst (Everest).
2nd row shoulder room is 28mm difference from best (Kluger) to worst (Everest).
Everest has the best 2nd and 3rd row legroom and by a fair bit compared to Kluger (144m extra in the 2nd row and 280mm in the 3rd row).

There are no doubt other models with more or less of each but I used the best selling models as the comparison.

[EBSXR6]

One been in an Everest once, the headroom in the back is not enough if your over 183cm.

[jpd80]

The one area where Ford could really best the competition is by making Ranger and Everest slightly wider.
By that I mean widen the body by about 50-70mm and reduce those add on wheel arches making the hip
and shoulder room more like Territory. A roomier Ranger and Everest probably answers a lot of the wants of
some buyers infatuated with Ram and F150.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by russellw

Everest / Kluger (except Grande) / Prado:

Green is most, Orange is middle, red is worst.

Front Headroom: 1017 / 1017 / 1040
Front Legroom: 1058 / 1035 / 1070
Front Shoulder Room: 1440 / 1470 / 1460
2nd Row Headroom: 978 / 1012 / 1035
2nd Row Legroom: 939 / 925 / 795
2nd Row Shoulder Room: 1432 / 1448 / 1460
3rd Row Headroom: 928 / NA / 925
3rd Row Legroom: 797 / NA / 517
3rd Row Shoulder Room: 1303 / NA / 1260

.. so front shoulder room is a 30mm difference from best (Kluger) to worst (Everest).
2nd row shoulder room is 28mm difference from best (Kluger) to worst (Everest).
Everest has the best 2nd and 3rd row legroom and by a fair bit compared to Kluger (144m extra in the 2nd row and 280mm in the 3rd row).

There are no doubt other models with more or less of each but I used the best selling models as the comparison.

Thanks for the detail.

I have a strong suspicion the incredibly thick interior d-pillars/tailgate inside trim and narrower rear window also add to the feeling of being smaller for the Everest. One area where the more squared off rear glass and general greater glass to body ratio of say the Territory is superior.

[Bossxr8]

Have to wait and see if the new gen grows wider. Can’t tell just by looking at it. Have to wait till they release dimensions.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This I don't know. I'm pretty confused by the South Korean business model as a whole. Their wages for auto workers are as high, or higher than ours. And I wouldn't think South Korea would be a cheap place to do business like China or Thailand.

But I think a lot of it comes down to being willing to lose money on certain products to build the companies image, and spread their reach.

I have no idea what their finances are like either, how successful they are at making money on car sales. Obviously they have a very strong home market. But they have also admitted they lose money on passenger vehicles here, and only make money on SUV sales. The profit margin on i30's is reported to be nothing more than a couple of hundred dollars per car.

I can't see how they can make a RHD version of a large SUV that will probably sell in small numbers, and make any form of profit on it, let alone pay back what it will cost in R&D to get it to production. I'd love to know how they can do it.

US companies are probably too conservative and risk averse though for sure. I think Farley might change this though. He's saying the right things.

South Korean government subsidies their auto industry massively.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Have to wait and see if the new gen grows wider. Can’t tell just by looking at it. Have to wait till they release dimensions.

I've just seen leaked pics of the US maverick body in white,
definitely shorter than Ranger but the width seems close