Holden want extra 265mil to stay

[hedgehobb]

I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but I think I will point out the pink elephant in the room.

This 'sham' of getting money from Government in order to stay in said Country has been going for so long that it is now considered no longer a sham.

Ppl want to drive cars. Yet it seems to be ok to hold a Country to ransom and threaten to move "off-shore"... well, **** off then.

No-one, not now, not ever, will have the balls to stand up and speak the truth. And tell these corporations to GTFO.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by EF_6

As far as I can see the industry is screwing itself up.... making cars that only last 5 years then they want you to throw it away and buy a new one.... Not to mention the depreciation..... Both of my EFs are worth about 5k each and they still get me around quite well.....I keep the money I save in the bank or invest it somewhere else..... And I don't need all this technology they're pushing these days!

At present we are deciding wether to buy new or keep our 97 patrol
The patrol is thirsty, but does everything its asked, tows our big trailer with ease,but,did I mention its thirsty
I own it,its biggest expense is fuel,a new water pump cost $35 ....
To go to new, sure cheaper to run, similar power,but when your talking depreciation in the 10s of thousands over a few years,plus interest,Vs owning something that still does the active duty,its very hard to go to something that mite be cheaper to run, dearer to service and maintain, tho maybe more comfy
But paying 700 or more a month on something that looses most of that in depreciation ,its a tuff call for those who cant write most of it of

Looking into vehicles at present,most are depreciating 5 grand or more a year,thats just on the ask not the final sale price,just from looking on egay and the likes
Depreciation is nearly 3/4 of the years payments
From an investment sorta point, its a bad choice
This is why the auto industry is failing,many are a bit wiser with what little money they have, those that have been caught up in it all, have a limited choice and cant flip every coupla years, they owe more than the cars worth,so they battle on the it

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by hedgehobb

I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but I think I will point out the pink elephant in the room.

This 'sham' of getting money from Government in order to stay in said Country has been going for so long that it is now considered no longer a sham.

Ppl want to drive cars. Yet it seems to be ok to hold a Country to ransom and threaten to move "off-shore"... well, **** off then.

No-one, not now, not ever, will have the balls to stand up and speak the truth. And tell these corporations to GTFO.

Companies that use to to manufacture in aussie have been sourcing manufacturing off shore for decades,its not a new thing
If it cant be made here and sold here for a decent profit to be competative with imports then you either move shop or shut shop
If holden cant be productive and profitable here to be competative with the imports the government needs to change a few things, if they cant,dont or wont ,holden doesn't have much choice , and they will be like many many other businesses that sourced manufacturing off shore

[DanielXR8]

Here is a quote from a story about Holden today:

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said a coalition government would look at further "generous assistance" to Holden if it can show it has credible plans to reduce production costs and boost exports volumes.

So there you have it. The coalition is all set to backpedal on its wailing about cutting assistance, but needs the unions to agree to cut wages, so it can save face.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...lden-stay-carr

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said a coalition government would look at further "generous assistance" to Holden if it can show it has credible plans to reduce production costs and boost exports volumes.
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...lden-stay-carr

Here's the catch: credible plans

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

At present we are deciding wether to buy new or keep our 97 patrol
etc...

I'm betting you will keep your '97 Patrol as it is "fit for purpose".
Our kids drive our '97 Astra with 540,000 on the clock for the same reasons.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by hedgehobb

I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but I think I will point out the pink elephant in the room.

This 'sham' of getting money from Government in order to stay in said Country has been going for so long that it is now considered no longer a sham.

Ppl want to drive cars. Yet it seems to be ok to hold a Country to ransom and threaten to move "off-shore"... well, **** off then.

No-one, not now, not ever, will have the balls to stand up and speak the truth. And tell these corporations to GTFO.

This is the problem, everyone getting on their high-horse and pretending that this is corporate ransom, it isnt. Its purely about survival.

These corporations are not lining their pockets with taxpayer money, they are using money to simply compete and survive.

Holden lost 152 million last year, it would have been more if it wasn't for their profitable imported cars. They lose on every car they build. This request for assistance isnt a money grab its a last ditch attempt to survive through a period of massive currency value increase against the USD, a downturn in other markets which have caused a massive influx into Australia, huge protectionist policies of other governments and deliberate devaluation of the Yen (by 25% this year).

Every single person has benefited from government assistance on this forum, whether its directly like family payments, first home owners grant, LPG rebates or indirectly through which all this stimulation has on the economy. The assistance given to the auto industry in miniscule ($17 per person) compared to the subsidies and assistance given to banks ($763) per person. So if you have a problem with corporations receiving government benefits, look at the banks first.

If we want to question Government spending, look at the 2 billion the SA Government spent on a Desal plant which is predicted wont be used in its useful lifetime or the 45billion on the NBN which is predicted that more than 80% of the population will never end up using.

Otherwise back off the criticism of the assistance an industry that is responsible of up to 25% of R&D in this country, provides directly and indirectly tens of thousands of jobs, helps diversify the economy against mining slowdowns, contributes to the training and development of literally thousands of engineers and designers and contributes billions of dollars to the economy and terms of trade.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Brazen

If we want to question Government spending, look at the 2 billion the SA Government spent on a Desal plant which is predicted wont be used in its useful lifetime or the 45billion on the NBN which is predicted that more than 80% of the population will never end up using.

Is pouring good money after bad on the above projects a justification for pouring good money after bad on automotive manufacturing?
After all Desal plants, NBN, Pink Bats, Julia Gillard Memorial Halls etc. employed thousands.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Brazen

This is the problem, everyone getting on their high-horse and pretending that this is corporate ransom, it isnt. Its purely about survival.

These corporations are not lining their pockets with taxpayer money, they are using money to simply compete and survive.

Holden lost 152 million last year, it would have been more if it wasn't for their profitable imported cars. They lose on every car they build. This request for assistance isnt a money grab its a last ditch attempt to survive through a period of massive currency value increase against the USD, a downturn in other markets which have caused a massive influx into Australia, huge protectionist policies of other governments and deliberate devaluation of the Yen (by 25% this year).

Every single person has benefited from government assistance on this forum, whether its directly like family payments, first home owners grant, LPG rebates or indirectly through which all this stimulation has on the economy. The assistance given to the auto industry in miniscule ($17 per person) compared to the subsidies and assistance given to banks ($763) per person. So if you have a problem with corporations receiving government benefits, look at the banks first.

If we want to question Government spending, look at the 2 billion the SA Government spent on a Desal plant which is predicted wont be used in its useful lifetime or the 45billion on the NBN which is predicted that more than 80% of the population will never end up using.

Otherwise back off the criticism of the assistance an industry that is responsible of up to 25% of R&D in this country, provides directly and indirectly tens of thousands of jobs, helps diversify the economy against mining slowdowns, contributes to the training and development of literally thousands of engineers and designers and contributes billions of dollars to the economy and terms of trade.

If Holden are seriously losing that much money a year despite being one of the biggest sellers in Australia. Then giving them money to stay is basically just putting a bandaid over a gunshot wound, they'll continue to lose money, more and more of it as we continue to demand higher wages and cheaper products with more tech all the while there's more and more competition to the product as well. The goverment will have to continuously give them the money that Holden cant make themselves to turn a profit. Its foolish business to continue on at a loss and rely on handouts.

[GASWAGON]

Also, just how many new cars do these corporations want to sell.....I mean just about everyone has a cars that at least 5 yrs old now.....so many 'new' cars on the road, when will it stop or at least slow down?

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Here is a quote from a story about Holden today:

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said a coalition government would look at further "generous assistance" to Holden if it can show it has credible plans to reduce production costs and boost exports volumes.

So there you have it. The coalition is all set to backpedal on its wailing about cutting assistance, but needs the unions to agree to cut wages, so it can save face.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...lden-stay-carr

If Holden can make a profitable business that's not bleeding money the government should get behind it and Toyota Australia.

But without a realistic business model, as I stated in my previous post, your throwing money on what seems to be a dead industry just to keep it afloat.

Holden need to make duel cab utes, SUVs and small cars, if its about jobs and not about our RWD large sedans everybody would be fine with the death of a local platform for the brand and local production to survive.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Giant

It will cost the Nation more then you can add up on a spreadsheet. Best to invest and and develop a top selling car why not make a SUV thats where the sales have been.

One tax break they could offer Holden etc is for them to have reduced income tax for their employees, thus keeping the employees on the same take home pay but saving the company heaps.

The gov should also encourage LPG cars with further concessions, as the dollar drops the Petrol price will once again become a issues when buying a car.

It would be ideal if GM's platforms were more modular, so you could have Traxx, Craptiva and Cruze on the same platform. What a shame the money goes on exisiting, outdated GM tech. Government should be negotiating long and hard and get more intimate with the details- they aren't product planners, but product planners haven't really suceeded thus far. Bring some expertise into the equation for a review.

I really like the tax and LPG ideas- Why we don't have an LPG hybrid is staggering, and cutting the exise is absolutely criminal!

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

I really like the tax and LPG ideas- Why we don't have an LPG hybrid is staggering, and cutting the exise is absolutely criminal!

Hyundai had an LPG-hybrid a few years ago.

"Currently, LPG represents a cleaner fuel solution than petrol or diesel although, being less efficient, it does have drawbacks. And of course, synthesising the gas puts pressure on non-renewable resources. So while it offers a reasonable short term solution, it is likely that more sustainable fuel technologies will prevail in the long term."
http://www.toyota.com.au/hybrid-syne...fuels/lpg-cars

Of course Toyota they don't mention the LCA of a hybrid!

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Is pouring good money after bad on the above projects a justification for pouring good money after bad on automotive manufacturing?
After all Desal plants, NBN, Pink Bats, Julia Gillard Memorial Halls etc. employed thousands.

So long as the projects are rolled out in an safe & orderly fashion and represent reasonable value for money then I've got no problems. Spending like a drunken sailor however is a different matter.....

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

If Holden can make a profitable business that's not bleeding money the government should get behind it and Toyota Australia.

But without a realistic business model, as I stated in my previous post, your throwing money on what seems to be a dead industry just to keep it afloat.

Holden need to make duel cab utes, SUVs and small cars, if its about jobs and not about our RWD large sedans everybody would be fine with the death of a local platform for the brand and local production to survive.

This. If the goverment is going to continually throw money at Hoden to keep them here, then they need to start making 4x4s, SUVs, etc here to make local manufacturing worthwhile. No point throwing them all this money if all they do is focus on building a car in a dwindling market segment.

[hedgehobb]

I saw it.
I said it.
I spoke it.
What more do you want from me?

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Otherwise back off the criticism of the assistance an industry that is responsible of up to 25% of R&D in this country, provides directly and indirectly tens of thousands of jobs, helps diversify the economy against mining slowdowns, contributes to the training and development of literally thousands of engineers and designers and contributes billions of dollars to the economy and terms of trade.

I doubt you would get the certain obvious people stop their criticism, they are experts in this field, even though 99% have no doubt never driven past an Auto manufacturing plant let alone stepped foot inside one.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by fte50

I doubt you would get the certain obvious people stop their criticism, they are experts in this field, even though 99% have no doubt never driven past an Auto manufacturing plant let alone stepped foot inside one.

Not me! Worked for two different manufacturers when they were #1 in sales and once for a dealer.