Speed Camera at base of suburban hill - Revenue raising or not?

[kinksta]

Errr.....what? All I was referring to was someone speeding past a speed camera 15kmph over the limit.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by grey_esp

Id be checking this one out. I thought they were not allowed to place a camera on a hill where (now not sure on which gear the car has to be in) the car can pick up speed under its own engine breaking.

I've got to side with this one. I recall about a year ago I was travelling on Alfords Point Road towards Bankstown (which is a reasonably steep and long section of road) prior to it crossing the river. I was in a manual so I kicked it down a notch instead of riding the brakes and there was a cop car at the bottom with a laser. When I got home, I had a bit of a google about and do recall seeing something about setting up on a downhill section.

Do some searches and document where you were pinged. I've been a victim of riding the brakes going down Bulli Pass - while that was an XD 20 odd years ago and an extreme example.. and brake technology has improved, it's still not something I'd advocate in most family cars.

[Sam_Boss260]

Well drove past the spot, as this is my way home every day and another speed camera at the base of the hill.

No tell me, that stupid sign that they have to place, where does it have to be in relation to their vehicle? This was on the footpath, where you can't see it.

[rancidpunx]

Taken from QLD police website

6.5.2 Restrictions on speed detection device site locations (restricted site locations)

POLICY

Speed detection devices should not generally be operated in the following restricted site locations:

(i) on a road which could be described as the downgrade of a hill;

(ii) on a road within 300 metres after a sign indicating any decrease in the prescribed speed limit;

(iii) on a road within 100 metres before a sign indicating any increase in the prescribed limit; or

(iv) where the length of the speed zone is less than one kilometre.

It is recognised that in some instances, it may be necessary to perform speed detection operations in restricted site locations. Such instances include:

(i) 40 km/h school zones;

(ii) local neighbourhood areas;

(iii) on downhill grades where there is documented history of crashes; and

(iv) areas where there are a number of public complaints relating to the speeding of vehicles. The 'Traffic Complaint' functionality within QPRIME should be used to identify such areas.

When operating a speed detection device in any restricted site location, the officer in command is to consider the aspect of fairness towards the motoring public. In every case, that officer is accountable for justification of the operation of the device at the restricted site location.

It was only recently that this line was added "devices should not generally be operated" In my opinion that just means they can do what they like. You could fight it and get them to prove their reasoning for using that site although I imagine it will be lengthy and unfortunately you were heaps over the limit.

It sucks mate but you will probably just have to take this one on the chin. It was released recently that speed cameras should be moved if they are not taking lots of photos. That in a nut shell sums up the policy for govco and their cash cows. Voting on Saturday does give you a chance to have your say but unfortunately Can Do Campbell has more of the same in store for us.

[kinksta]

So you can see a blatantly obvious speed limit sign, and you are not happy because you couldn't see the speed camera sign?

If you had been 4-6kmph over, I wouldn't say anything, but come on you were 15 over. I'm not having a go at you or anyone for speeding, but these threads are getting tiring..or is it just me?

[Sam_Boss260]

The point that we are making, is that if there was a police car at the bottom of the hill, with lights flashing and the cop waving people down, handing out warnings and or tickets, then people would think 'crap was I speeding, or I'd better be careful down this hill'. Instead, they hide between parked cars, hide the sign and snap away. They are about 400m from the main road which is 60 zone and at the bottom of a hill. Tell me that isnt revenue raising.

Yes I was doing 65 kms an hour. Not likevibwasvdrag racing doing 110 in suburban streets. A little perspective people......

[kinksta]

So you were only going a little bit faster....

In the opening post you said it was a 50 zone.

I would think if I got a speeding fine I would be more careful next time no matter how I was caught.

Anyway..

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Sam_Boss260

The point that we are making, is that if there was a police car at the bottom of the hill, with lights flashing and the cop waving people down, handing out warnings and or tickets, then people would think 'crap was I speeding, or I'd better be careful down this hill'. Instead, they hide between parked cars, hide the sign and snap away. They are about 400m from the main road which is 60 zone and at the bottom of a hill. Tell me that isnt revenue raising.

Yes I was doing 65 kms an hour. Not likevibwasvdrag racing doing 110 in suburban streets. A little perspective people......

im with you.. respect up take it on the chin if mr policemans hands me a ticket..

this does nothing to slow people down at the time.. straight out rort and they still have the cheek to call them safety cams.....

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just because something is law does not automatically make it right or just.

Quoted for truth. Absolutley right.

[2011G6E]

When speed cameras, and even plain old radar guns, first came out, we were assured by governments that there were guidelines for use in place that meant they would never do anything like put them at the bottom of hills, within a certain distance of a change of speed limit, or hide them behind bushes...

[Donny]

Unfortunantly for us QLD'ers, (even though we will probably/hopefully see a change in the clowns in govt. oroffice)
I doubt whom ever we vote for this weekend will see Jack shiiit when it comes to major policy changes..
Especially when were talking about one of the govt's most lucrative cash making cows..

To the OP, is it worth fighting it vs just copping it on the chin?? Sounds like a marginal call to me..
By the way Sam, how many points and $$ did you get pinged for mate?

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

When speed cameras, and even plain old radar guns, first came out, we were assured by governments that there were guidelines for use in place that meant they would never do anything like put them at the bottom of hills, within a certain distance of a change of speed limit, or hide them behind bushes...

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by XARATE

This is actuall correct, same goes with going down a hill with cruise control on. Any speed gained under the "control" (ie with no driver input) of cruise control while decending down a hill cannot incurr a fine. I know for a fact because i got out of a speeding fine using that reasoning. Its in the law books

Originally Posted by Sam_Boss260

So how does one contest and prove this?

Sam you could contact RACQ Legal for advice in this instance.

[Sam_Boss260]

Cheers Simon

[Scott]

Australian Standard for Laser-based speed detection devices - Operational procedures

http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store...oductID=317272

Info link.
http://www.delonixradar.com.au/queensland/

[Scott]

Seeing as I'm googling....

NSW Ombudsman Report - Speedometers & Speeding Fines:
http://www.ombo.nsw.gov.au/publicati...ng%20fines.pdf

AFP - practical guide on radar:
http://www.afp.gov.au/about-the-afp/...14OCT2011.ashx

Annndd back to work...

[leonbray]

I second the call to contact RACQ legal

Even if you pay the fine you should lodge and objection based on the contravention of guidelines

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by Donny

Unfortunantly for us QLD'ers, (even though we will probably/hopefully see a change in the clowns in govt. oroffice)
I doubt whom ever we vote for this weekend will see Jack shiiit when it comes to major policy changes..
Especially when were talking about one of the govt's most lucrative cash making cows..

To the OP, is it worth fighting it vs just copping it on the chin?? Sounds like a marginal call to me..
By the way Sam, how many points and $$ did you get pinged for mate?

Hey Donny.
3 points and $200

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Sam_Boss260

Bottom of a series of rollacoaster hills. Speed limit is 50, and really, who does 50 oing down hills when you go and down and up down?

how many deaths have occurred on that road to justify the camera?

Originally Posted by TMC

I think all school zones should have flashing lights, speed zone LED signs, complete marked out sections across the entire road to alert you

They should also move the entrance off Major roads if possible. one example is Ando school is on the Monaro Highway! they could easily put a drive way around the back of the school and fence off the highway side completely. (fortunately that school is in hiatus this year, and the zone signs have been taped over).

[jrfttf]

Don't think i saw thee answer to this question anywhewre but is the camera a permanant fixed one or was it a camera car there on the day and time you were pinged?

Cause i know in victoria a permanant one can legally be placed at the base of a hill, however a mobile camera unit cannot!!!!

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

how many deaths have occurred on that road to justify the camera?


They should also move the entrance off Major roads if possible. one example is Ando school is on the Monaro Highway! they could easily put a drive way around the back of the school and fence off the highway side completely. (fortunately that school is in hiatus this year, and the zone signs have been taped over).

No deaths. I have only seen one car accident in the 10 years that I have lived there.

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by jrfttf

Don't think i saw thee answer to this question anywhewre but is the camera a permanant fixed one or was it a camera car there on the day and time you were pinged?

Cause i know in victoria a permanant one can legally be placed at the base of a hill, however a mobile camera unit cannot!!!!

Mobile camera in a Pajero !

[TMC]

Even the police hand held units I feel are actually dangerous at times such as peak hour on high speed sections of road. People may be driving at the limit, and then realise a cop standing there with a handheld half in the bushes and then certain drivers panic, hit the skids, person behind unaware of what is going on also hits the skids, maybe veers into the other lane to avoid the person in front cutting others off and then the chaos gets worse. My mother was in a position like this a couple of years ago on the Roe Hwy in peak hr. Everyone had finally got up to 100kph and then a cop appeared, my mother was in the fast lane, and then the person in front panicked, hit the skids real hard and came to a complete stop, and my Mum had to do the same (luckily she'd just got a near new 380 with ABS so it pulled up well) but the lady in a 4WD behind didn't notice anything and plowed into the back of my Mum who then shunted my Mum into the back of the car in front and then a few cars hit the back of the 4WD. My mum was lucky and the car was repaired. Really shook up though. It was not even 1% her fault. The cops with the camera conveniently said they'd seen nothing, when it was within around 100m of them. Unbelievable. The cameras can actually CAUSE accidents.

[Pedro]

I'm with Donny on "change of government probably won't change the cameras situation". Captain Bligh and her band of brainless nitwits have put in place a cash cow of such proportions that the incoming party will find it hard to replace.

I live on Mt Tamborine and the cash trucks have three set places. They are all at the bottom on steep gradients, none of which have any record of crashes.

[Yellow_Festiva]

There is a camera like that over the Blue Mountains just before or after the turnoff to the Jenolan caves. That is 90 however. It is in the valley of a decent decline and incline and you are forever watching your speedo and riding your brakes to not get done.....

I hate the bloody things....