Coyote XR8 still a year away

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I dont see XR8 going with an NA engine. I dont think its as simply plug and play as some people suggest, and i dont think the supercharged engine is potentially twice as much as the NA as some other posted figures would suggest.

Leave XR6T to challenge SS as i dont see how Ford will push either the NA or SC V8 into a $45K package, put the GS engine into the XR body with the turbo intake and exhaust with the luxury pack interior and sell that for $50K and give the GS the same bodykit and brakes as F6.

Pretty much agree with everything here, and reality is when Ford/FPV need to recoup $40m... they need to recoup $40m.

A $45k n.a. XR8 isn't feasible. Ford actually offered something similar with the Boss 290 FG XR8 and some are still unsold even till now, so why should they pour more R&D into what has proven to be not so successful sales-wise?

If/when Ford make the XR8 they should be going for the jugular - it should be blown as it will leave no doubt in people's minds as to which brand has the hairiest V8. It should cost more because.. uhm... uhm... what advancements have Holden made, or in particular, what dollars have they spent on their V8 engine in the last 10 years that should warrant anything near $45k anyway?

Have a look at some series II VESSs; sub $40k. Great! Now we'll get the wannabe internet accountants suggesting Ford match that as well. What I reckon is if you don't want an Australian designed and built, unique, ball-tearing V8 then buy an SS, and with the money you save, buy some class.

[Hally]

Guys,

Can someone explain the importance of the new PCM (that is part of FG2) to me? The current model has Coyote/Miami in it, so why is the new PCM crucial in regards to the motor being able to be in N/A form?

I am presuming that the current instalation might not use variable cam timing or similar?

[KuRT12]

Originally Posted by Hally

Guys,

Can someone explain the importance of the new PCM (that is part of FG2) to me? The current model has Coyote/Miami in it, so why is the new PCM crucial in regards to the motor being able to be in N/A form?

I am presuming that the current instalation might not use variable cam timing or similar?

Is it something to do with the Ti-VCT?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Pretty much agree with everything here, and reality is when Ford/FPV need to recoup $40m... they need to recoup $40m.

A $45k n.a. XR8 isn't feasible. Ford actually offered something similar with the Boss 290 FG XR8 and some are still unsold even till now, so why should they pour more R&D into what has proven to be not so successful sales-wise?

If/when Ford make the XR8 they should be going for the jugular - it should be blown as it will leave no doubt in people's minds as to which brand has the hairiest V8. It should cost more because.. uhm... uhm... what advancements have Holden made, or in particular, what dollars have they spent on their V8 engine in the last 10 years that should warrant anything near $45k anyway?

Have a look at some series II VESSs; sub $40k. Great! Now we'll get the wannabe internet accountants suggesting Ford match that as well. What I reckon is if you don't want an Australian designed and built, unique, ball-tearing V8 then buy an SS, and with the money you save, buy some class.

Who put a price tag on the NA XR8? Anywhere from $45-50 (50 with options) is about right. Above the $50k also presents a mental barrier aswell. We have been down the path of why the B series suffered as you know in the "whats wrong with the XR8 thread" and "XR8 Discussion".

Agreed Ford should stick the boot in but also keep in mind that the SS/XR8 guys are not about all out power, its just about having a V8 in the first place. That doesnt mean they should install an asthmatic Windsor in there, but the SS is "only" 260 IIRC so the target isnt very high. Given the 5.0 does more with less is a selling point on its own. There are plenty examples of member here who owned B series V8s and returned to A series, bung on an exhaust and they are happy as larry.

We bag many of Holdens tactics, I know I do, but at the end of the day crating an engine in for a mass produced car makes perfect sense, then you spend the other funds on the little bling things that people tend to like these days (and what the falcons have been bagged for not having, especially when you see what a cheaper mondeo comes with). Same can be said with HSV, and at the moment they have the runs on the board regardless of quality.

AFM is also another example, yes its marketing bollocks but if thats what it takes to sell cars then fine. Its a well known fact that at the end of the day its the wife/partner that also has a big call, if someone can go "hey hun, we can get a V8 that uses less fuel with this AFM thing" and it gets the sale across the line then job done. I dont agree with it and dont want Ford to follow that path but its all these little things that make the difference.

I dont think anyone here seriously thinks the XR8 should be sub $40k (a mondeo XR5 is/was around $40k isnt it?)...a premium over the XR6T is normal. The B series XR8 examples used while recent are IMO not completely fair, the main reason it struggled was because of the engine, the single thing we are talking about getting fixed. Who would buy a V8 sedan when the V8 itself is not desirable or what the customer wants? Ford themselves knew it was not up to par, even if the kw's where higher. This is the primary reason why I dont think SC the XR8 makes sense, because its RRP will be guess what, exactly what the GS is and it wont sell.

People who are after power will buy the GS. Most XR8 im tipping are just after a V8 that sounds good, has good power, rev's and has a decent torque curve (down low aswell) and doesnt cost the earth to maintain or insure.

There are many now who buy a GS because they are savvy enough to know its the same engine as the GT. What will happen to the GS/GT sales when the XR8 comes out with the same engine with a tune? It will dilute the FPV aura.

Its not going to be an easy decision, the easy way out is putting the GS engine in, but whether its the right one is debatable. At the end of the day its about sales, I would be pretty confident that a XR8/G8E would out sell V8 FPVs. FPV needs Ford to move Falcons, such a vicious cycle.

[Luke Plaizier]

The current PCM (is it still Spanish Oak?) didn't have enough I/O ports to run the dual exhaust cam phasers. It could run the I6 with an inlet and exhaust phaser, but it didn't have enough to run the 4 phasers on the quad-cam V8. The Spanish Oak came in with the BF replaced the Black Oak from the BA, which itself didn't have enough io ports to allow for the dual O2 sensors, or enough space for programming the extra smarts for DSC and the ZF. Remember that you have to have the output line to configure the cam phaser position, and an input line for the sensor to know the current phaser position for closed-loop operation, so two extra cams requires 4 extra io lines.

The Miami is running static exhaust cams I believe. Expect a power hike when the new PCM comes in and they map the exhaust phaser into the mapping.

And while I'm here, gosh I hope the new PCM also has dual maps - although I don't hear anything of that nature on the Tezza. Press a button to get the 'economy' mapping, and another button for the 'power' mapping. All it would take is one more digital io, a bunch of extra flash ram, and some software. Just like Hill Descent Control on the Tezza was 'just' a different software code in the ABS module. Nothing else.


Lukeyson

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

The current PCM (is it still Spanish Oak?) didn't have enough I/O ports to run the dual exhaust cam phasers. It could run the I6 with an inlet and exhaust phaser, but it didn't have enough to run the 4 phasers on the quad-cam V8. The Spanish Oak came in with the BF replaced the Black Oak from the BA, which itself didn't have enough io ports to allow for the dual O2 sensors, or enough space for programming the extra smarts for DSC and the ZF. Remember that you have to have the output line to configure the cam phaser position, and an input line for the sensor to know the current phaser position for closed-loop operation, so two extra cams requires 4 extra io lines.

The Miami is running static exhaust cams I believe. Expect a power hike when the new PCM comes in and they map the exhaust phaser into the mapping.

And while I'm here, gosh I hope the new PCM also has dual maps - although I don't hear anything of that nature on the Tezza. Press a button to get the 'economy' mapping, and another button for the 'power' mapping. All it would take is one more digital io, a bunch of extra flash ram, and some software. Just like Hill Descent Control on the Tezza was 'just' a different software code in the ABS module. Nothing else.


Lukeyson

you know it took holden 6years to write the software for the sidi, the coyote would be similar.

it would be more cost effective to use/adapt the mustang unit..

[Hally]

Thanks for the post Lukeyson. Makes complete sense and answers all my questions.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Who put a price tag on the NA XR8? Anywhere from $45-50 (50 with options) is about right. Above the $50k also presents a mental barrier aswell. We have been down the path of why the B series suffered as you know in the "whats wrong with the XR8 thread" and "XR8 Discussion".

Reading some of these threads it's not hard to see some people aren't realistic in their expectations or just don't remember that an AU XR all those years ago was over $50k.

Originally Posted by Polyal

Agreed Ford should stick the boot in but also keep in mind that the SS/XR8 guys are not about all out power, its just about having a V8 in the first place. That doesnt mean they should install an asthmatic Windsor in there, but the SS is "only" 260 IIRC so the target isnt very high. Given the 5.0 does more with less is a selling point on its own. There are plenty examples of member here who owned B series V8s and returned to A series, bung on an exhaust and they are happy as larry.

It's funny you say that it isn't about power. Because it was. The FG XR8 was, and still is a superior car to the SS. It didn't sell, not even for $46k.

Originally Posted by Polyal

We bag many of Holdens tactics, I know I do, but at the end of the day crating an engine in for a mass produced car makes perfect sense, then you spend the other funds on the little bling things that people tend to like these days (and what the falcons have been bagged for not having, especially when you see what a cheaper mondeo comes with). Same can be said with HSV, and at the moment they have the runs on the board regardless of quality.

That's the nature of the situation so FPV have to spend their dollars to make a great motor. What I'm saying, and you understand this, why would Ford spend more dollars to engineer the n.a., when there's the risk that it won't take off (sales wise). Don't get me wrong because you also know that I know the n.a. 5 litre would absolutely cream the 6 litre, and that personally I would love to see it fitted. It just doesn't make any business sense especially with sales where they are at the moment. Added to that the amount of R&D they've poured into Territory's V6, the EB2.0, and the EcoLPi. There's also the budget for FG2, so there's a lot of dollars been thrown around at the moment. What I'd like to add - if it comes back, n.a. or not, I'm happy.

Originally Posted by Polyal

AFM is also another example, yes its marketing bollocks but if thats what it takes to sell cars then fine. Its a well known fact that at the end of the day its the wife/partner that also has a big call, if someone can go "hey hun, we can get a V8 that uses less fuel with this AFM thing" and it gets the sale across the line then job done. I dont agree with it and dont want Ford to follow that path but its all these little things that make the difference.

I agree there. But that isn't why I brought AFM up. The point I am making is Holden can afford to not charge such a premium on their V8 like Ford has to.

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont think anyone here seriously thinks the XR8 should be sub $40k (a mondeo XR5 is/was around $40k isnt it?)...a premium over the XR6T is normal. The B series XR8 examples used while recent are IMO not completely fair, the main reason it struggled was because of the engine, the single thing we are talking about getting fixed. Who would buy a V8 sedan when the V8 itself is not desirable or what the customer wants? Ford themselves knew it was not up to par, even if the kw's where higher. This is the primary reason why I dont think SC the XR8 makes sense, because its RRP will be guess what, exactly what the GS is and it wont sell.

The main reason the B-series struggled wasn't the engine but the price. At the time Ford pushed the turbo, not the V8. If you think that V8 wasn't desirable then you've read too many Wheels and Motor articles. My sub $40k remark was a little tongue in cheek but if in the event a $45k n.a. XR8 does come to market and still doesn't sell watch all the keyboard jockeys go berserk about the price.

Originally Posted by Polyal

People who are after power will buy the GS. Most XR8 im tipping are just after a V8 that sounds good, has good power, rev's and has a decent torque curve (down low aswell) and doesnt cost the earth to maintain or insure.

Like the previous XR8s?

Originally Posted by Polyal

There are many now who buy a GS because they are savvy enough to know its the same engine as the GT. What will happen to the GS/GT sales when the XR8 comes out with the same engine with a tune? It will dilute the FPV aura.

Good point I guess, but as FPV GTHO pointed out there would be a few points of difference between it and the GS' such as the breathing hardware.

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its not going to be an easy decision, the easy way out is putting the GS engine in, but whether its the right one is debatable. At the end of the day its about sales, I would be pretty confident that a XR8/G8E would out sell V8 FPVs. FPV needs Ford to move Falcons, such a vicious cycle.

The "right" motor isn't debatable, it's definitely the n.a..

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Reading some of these threads it's not hard to see some people aren't realistic in their expectations or just don't remember that an AU XR all those years ago was over $50k.

I agree, but I think cars are also "cheaper" than they were 10 years ago, you get alot more bang for your buck.

Originally Posted by Falc'man

It's funny you say that it isn't about power. Because it was. The FG XR8 was, and still is a superior car to the SS. It didn't sell, not even for $46k.

I dont disagree, the FG XR8 on paper is a better car, in real life the engine didnt translate into performance I believe that aussies like. The engine was not flexible, the only thing that made it perform was the ratios from the ZF. Then you have the poo canning it got in the press from the usual "top heavy" under steer feeling, the XR6T just made it look a little ordinary. It would be a kick in the balls to buy the XR8 when its little sibling did everything better. The only reason you would buy the FG XR8 (and BA-BF) would be for the noise.

Originally Posted by Falc'man

That's the nature of the situation so FPV have to spend their dollars to make a great motor. What I'm saying, and you understand this, why would Ford spend more dollars to engineer the n.a., when there's the risk that it won't take off (sales wise). Don't get me wrong because you also know that I know the n.a. 5 litre would absolutely cream the 6 litre, and that personally I would love to see it fitted. It just doesn't make any business sense especially with sales where they are at the moment. Added to that the amount of R&D they've poured into Territory's V6, the EB2.0, and the EcoLPi. There's also the budget for FG2, so there's a lot of dollars been thrown around at the moment. What I'd like to add - if it comes back, n.a. or not, I'm happy.

Yeah its a risk, I dont think its a huge one but for me its getting to the point where they have to choose. The falcon will go down fighting or they will just start popping up the little . One by one they will pull out of segments. I dont expect them to attack every angle like Holden and have flops here and there, but they are not making it easy for themselves to maintain %. Unfortunately this has a snowball effect.

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I agree there. But that isn't why I brought AFM up. The point I am making is Holden can afford to not charge such a premium on their V8 like Ford has to.

The main reason the B-series struggled wasn't the engine but the price. At the time Ford pushed the turbo, not the V8. If you think that V8 wasn't desirable then you've read too many Wheels and Motor articles. My sub $40k remark was a little tongue in cheek but if in the event a $45k n.a. XR8 does come to market and still doesn't sell watch all the keyboard jockeys go berserk about the price.

Like the previous XR8s?

Yes FPV/Ford are buggered on the V8 price. I would love to know how they actually predicted their pay back to work though.

Remember that the XR8 was priced high because again they where using an engine built only for us, it seems false economy, so I was thinking that in theory the crate engine would be a better proposition. Less labour, less development, it would use most of the Maimi accessories/k frame etc if they didnt want to use the electronic pump.

If people still had a go at a $45k na XR8 then they just dont know what they are talking about. I would be super surprised if they could manage that..45-50 is where it would be at.

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Good point I guess, but as FPV GTHO pointed out there would be a few points of difference between it and the GS' such as the breathing hardware.

The "right" motor isn't debatable, it's definitely the n.a..

Yeah fair enough.

Perhaps I just have a chip on my shoulder that finally, after all these years, we have a motor worth importing, that even to the average consumer is pretty cheap for what you get, and the only way we might get it is through a mustang that will be taxed to the buggery once it lands here.

I really do like the idea of the falcon having an aussie made engine (talking 5.4 here, Miami atleast was partly "borrowed") but the cost involved to make such an engine for small numbers would have been large.

Miami is an ace engine, no doubt, but I just think its market is limited. But hey, atleast FPV have the ability to send the Falcon out with a bang.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

The current PCM (is it still Spanish Oak?) didn't have enough I/O ports to run the dual exhaust cam phasers. It could run the I6 with an inlet and exhaust phaser, but it didn't have enough to run the 4 phasers on the quad-cam V8. The Spanish Oak came in with the BF replaced the Black Oak from the BA, which itself didn't have enough io ports to allow for the dual O2 sensors, or enough space for programming the extra smarts for DSC and the ZF. Remember that you have to have the output line to configure the cam phaser position, and an input line for the sensor to know the current phaser position for closed-loop operation, so two extra cams requires 4 extra io lines.

The Miami is running static exhaust cams I believe. Expect a power hike when the new PCM comes in and they map the exhaust phaser into the mapping.

And while I'm here, gosh I hope the new PCM also has dual maps - although I don't hear anything of that nature on the Tezza. Press a button to get the 'economy' mapping, and another button for the 'power' mapping. All it would take is one more digital io, a bunch of extra flash ram, and some software. Just like Hill Descent Control on the Tezza was 'just' a different software code in the ABS module. Nothing else.


Lukeyson

Unless you can tell me otherwise, there is still no proof that the new PCM can run 4 cam phasers. People are just assuming it can.

Do you know?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Problem is, even if you use an XR6 @ $35,000 at the benchmark, a Miami engine probably isnt going to leave much if any change from $15,000. It would probably even cost more.

You can't use the XR6 @ $35k as a benchmark, because that price only applies to old stock, not anything that has to be built to order.

Thats the disclaimer they use at the bottom of the screen on the ads.

To work out the XR8 price they would have to start at the XR6's RRP, not what they are selling them for to clear old stock.

They would probably start at XR6 Turbo RRP cause they have 18's etc, and then work out how much extra the V8 will cost.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You can't use the XR6 @ $35k as a benchmark, because that price only applies to old stock, not anything that has to be built to order.

Thats the disclaimer they use at the bottom of the screen on the ads.

To work out the XR8 price they would have to start at the XR6's RRP, not what they are selling them for to clear old stock.

They would probably start at XR6 Turbo RRP cause they have 18's etc, and then work out how much extra the V8 will cost.

Nobody buys an XR6 at RRP and the truth is no one ever will. So basing the V8 prices on something that is already unrealistic like XR6 RRP is just coming up with pie in the sky pricing for the V8 which is equally untenable.

Yes a minority will buy a V8 with a huge premium, a majority wont. FPV seem happy enough with the minority so maybe the large premium these people pay is enough to subsidise the loss in voume? If it makes business sense then fine, but it unquestionably leaves a lot of potential customers sidelined.

When the Falcon platform as we know it has so little time left, I'm not sure how FPV is going to pay back and profit from Miami with its current sales volumes.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Last nights Goauto confirms that XR8 is still up in the air??

[2011G6E]

You know...

...seeing as how the Greens now hold not only the balance of power in parliament, but also now the Senate, and some of the whacky "environmental" ideas they have so far spouted as being the main push for them in the near future, if I was deciding whether to make a new V8 anything, I'd be a little wary and hold off until I saw whether they were going to attempt to try and tax engines of a certain capacity or which can't meet a set minimum fuel economy figure out of existance before committing a large wad of cash to production...

[Smoke Pursuit]

I dont think that has anything to do with Fords situation 2011G6E at this point.

If we dont see XR8 before december with FGII then we will never see it again. The longer the brand is idle the harder it is to bring it back to life.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I dont think that has anything to do with Fords situation 2011G6E at this point.

Don't kid yourself, multinational corporations that have a base here are all attuned to what is going on in the corridors of power.

As for the Greens..."if it's Brown, flush it down"

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Unless you can tell me otherwise, there is still no proof that the new PCM can run 4 cam phasers. People are just assuming it can.

Do you know?

It would appear this is the case but the new PCM also addresses an issue that restricts RPM to a safer level necessitated by the current unit.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Nobody buys an XR6 at RRP and the truth is no one ever will. So basing the V8 prices on something that is already unrealistic like XR6 RRP is just coming up with pie in the sky pricing for the V8 which is equally untenable.

Yes a minority will buy a V8 with a huge premium, a majority wont. FPV seem happy enough with the minority so maybe the large premium these people pay is enough to subsidise the loss in voume? If it makes business sense then fine, but it unquestionably leaves a lot of potential customers sidelined.

When the Falcon platform as we know it has so little time left, I'm not sure how FPV is going to pay back and profit from Miami with its current sales volumes.

Ford have to provide a RRP for everything they sell. It has nothing to do with what some customers negotiate from the dealers to get their on road cost.

2 totally different things. I was solely referring to the RRP Ford will put on an XR8, not what someone can negotiate for one.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

It would appear this is the case but the new PCM also addresses an issue that restricts RPM to a safer level necessitated by the current unit.

Backs up some of the R&D articles posted after the Coyote's release that it was the highest revving engine they have had to tune for, and required a new PCM to be able to tune over 6500 rpm.

Is the current PCM only capable of being tuned to 6500rpm? Or it becomes inaccurate over that?

[spvd02]

Maybe a larger capacity version is in the pipeline for the US market? If it were, it would be very competitive in NA form in the XR8. In 5.0L form it will be a sweeter offering than the SS 6.0L, but probably won't be any faster.

Not sure where, but a Ford spokesperson recently emphasised and repeated several times the need for the new XR8 to be very competitive. To me, this either means a supercharger, larger capacity, or further efficiency improvements to the 5.0 Coyote. When they say 'competitive', surely they're talking about performance?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Backs up some of the R&D articles posted after the Coyote's release that it was the highest revving engine they have had to tune for, and required a new PCM to be able to tune over 6500 rpm.

Is the current PCM only capable of being tuned to 6500rpm? Or it becomes inaccurate over that?

Herrod, XFT and KPM have all been able tune the Miami to 7200rpm or more.

I am not sure, but the most likely issue is the number of fields or rpm points available. Ie the rpm points may need be stretched out for the additional rpm. As an example, the AU ECU only has provision for IIRC 9 MAP levels and 12 rpm set points which are at 600, 900, 1200, 1500, 1900, 2300, 2700, 3100, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000.

The more recent ECU have far far greater definition (x,y axis) and I would expect more than enough. As above, the tune shops have well and truly exceeded 6500rpm with the SC 335GT's.

I really think it is the 4 phasor issue. Though I'm not entirely sure why they couldn't parallel the phasors and drive from the one I/O. ie 1 I/O drive all 16 intakes (via 2 phasors) and 1 I/O to drive all 16 exhaust valves (via 2 phasors). May be to do with the startup checks the phasors do?

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by spvd02

Maybe a larger capacity version is in the pipeline for the US market? If it were, it would be very competitive in NA form in the XR8. In 5.0L form it will be a sweeter offering than the SS 6.0L, but probably won't be any faster.

Not sure where, but a Ford spokesperson recently emphasised and repeated several times the need for the new XR8 to be very competitive. To me, this either means a supercharger, larger capacity, or further efficiency improvements to the 5.0 Coyote. When they say 'competitive', surely they're talking about performance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHqbqGCCMc

Could this be of any comparison for us if the XR8 gets this donk?

Camaro 6.2ltr vs Mustang 5.0ltr

[FreddyDUZ747]

2011 Mustang GT Ti-VCT Engine Overview

Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing (Ti-VCT) will allow drivers of the 2011 Mustang GT to balance high performance and fuel economy. "Ti-VCT is a win-win-win technology," said Barb Samardzich, vice president, global powertrain development. "It helps our new range of engines to deliver high performance with unsurpassed projected highway fuel economy of 25 miles per gallon and reduced emissions."

Ti-VCT provides extremely precise variable - yet independent - control of timing for intake and exhaust valves. Drivers of the 2011 Mustang GT will notice abundant torque and class-leading fuel economy. An additional benefit of Ti-VCT is a reduction of emissions, especially in situations when the throttle is partially open. Independent adjustment of intake and exhaust valve timing allows maximum fuel economy at part-throttle, while delivering optimized power in full-throttle situations. An added benefit is improved drivability and responsiveness across the torque curve.

How Ti-VCT works
The new 5.0-liter V-8 in the 2011 Mustang GT is a double-overhead-camshaft configuration that employs two camshafts per cylinder bank - one camshaft to operate the intake valves and one camshaft to operate the exhaust valves. Ti-VCT rotates the camshafts to advance or retard the cam timing, based on several measures including throttle opening.

An element unique to the Mustang GT 5.0-liter V-8 application is that Ti-VCT is actuated by camshaft torque, with assistance from pressurized oil. Using camshaft torque energy provides faster throttle response and maximizes use of existing energy, to aid fuel economy. Camshaft torque energy Ti-VCT actuation is a Ford innovation, introduced first on the 3.0-liter V-6. Working like a ratchet, the one-way valves allow precise timing of camshaft events, continually optimizing timing to provide maximum thrust or fuel economy, based on driver input. "Ti-VCT technology will continue to proliferate across the Ford powertrain portfolio," said Samardzich. "By 2013, you can expect to see this advancement available on 90 percent of our nameplates."

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by spvd02

Maybe a larger capacity version is in the pipeline for the US market? If it were, it would be very competitive in NA form in the XR8. In 5.0L form it will be a sweeter offering than the SS 6.0L, but probably won't be any faster.

Not sure where, but a Ford spokesperson recently emphasised and repeated several times the need for the new XR8 to be very competitive. To me, this either means a supercharger, larger capacity, or further efficiency improvements to the 5.0 Coyote. When they say 'competitive', surely they're talking about performance?

There is a larger capacity motor in development, yes.

And then there is the Wiseco 5.8L Coyote short block.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Backs up some of the R&D articles posted after the Coyote's release that it was the highest revving engine they have had to tune for, and required a new PCM to be able to tune over 6500 rpm.

Is the current PCM only capable of being tuned to 6500rpm? Or it becomes inaccurate over that?

Shall pm you in the coming days on specific factory findings re this issue.

[CSV_LS1]

Didn't tuned miami's have an issue with shutting down passing 6500rpm? Like KPM's car did at heathcote. This would seem to make the case of tunability only to 6500. Something that's been fixed apparently in the tune software with herrods car hitting 7700rpm without issue now apparently.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You know...

...seeing as how the Greens now hold not only the balance of power in parliament, but also now the Senate, and some of the whacky "environmental" ideas they have so far spouted as being the main push for them in the near future, if I was deciding whether to make a new V8 anything, I'd be a little wary and hold off until I saw whether they were going to attempt to try and tax engines of a certain capacity or which can't meet a set minimum fuel economy figure out of existance before committing a large wad of cash to production...

Good point, because a lot of us Victorians forget that Queenslanders pay a big premium to drive a V8. In fact, it is very expensive to own a V8 in all regards, i.e, rego, fuel, servicing, and in the case of the Miami, new underpants every time you floor it............

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Shall pm you in the coming days on specific factory findings re this issue.

Cheers.