Distributor in au ford? Can it be done?

[Stav]

Guys can it be done? I would like to fit a distributor to the wagon .Has anyone done this? Will the car not run?Will it work?

[5.0 ED]

yes you can fit a distributor in it, but other problems can arise from this, and also wonder why you would wont too, a XD-F fits but it is slightly taller, and you can have problems with spark jumping from cap to inlet manifold. Also the ecu will no longer have a cam sync signal so wont run in sequential injection and will go into a type of limp mode. I believe as long as you leave the crank angle and throttle position sensors connected to ecu it, the auto's should still operate correctly too. I am planning to put a carb and dizzy in my au v8.

I assume your not planning on running the standard fuel injection setup anymore?

[JC]

If you dizzy it, use an EL ECU (and dizzy - and probably engine bay wiring loom too). But I don't know why you'd want to when the coil packs provide better spark, and the AU ECU provides the tune/advance anyway.

***EDIT***
Oh, I get it - for the Haltech, right? Go with the EL stuff and you should be sweet.

[trick_xd]

Yep as JC said
or you can also go dizzy , coil , breaker box as well .
talk to Gavan in e-series as he just did his EF to coil and I put gas on it, the car really moves .
simple mod and the spark advance from 2,500rpm can be increased up to around 30*

[Stav]

I am not convinced that the standard au v8 I6 wasted spark igntion is really good enough for performance. the ba boys have got it good with their coil on plug..much better setup.I am brainstorming.

[FGII-XR6]

distributor would be a backward step they are inherently unreliable compared to coil pack especially at high RPM and with high energy coils. you have more scope for sparks to jump and cause missfire also

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Stav

I am not convinced that the standard au v8 I6 wasted spark igntion is really good enough for performance. the ba boys have got it good with their coil on plug..much better setup.I am brainstorming.

just an idea have you thought of trying a Ba coil on plug setup on the AU ? you could pick up the 3 signals and still fire both plugs but not have a coil pack

[JC]

Originally Posted by Stav

I am not convinced that the standard au v8 I6 wasted spark igntion is really good enough for performance. the ba boys have got it good with their coil on plug..much better setup.I am brainstorming.

Why not go coil on plug then?

[66 coupe]

ems8860 or wolfv5 with wasted spark, running off the AU Crank angle sensor

[Stav]

Coil on plug is a big thing on my mind but they wont be piddly ford ones.I may get an aftermarket controller and install msd ls1 coilpacks.Six of them. The only hurdle would then be if our computers can handle firing 2 negatives for controller without burning the ecu. I suppose there is only one way to find out. I am planning a few mods but refuse to touch the car until, it runs as is in cooler weather . I may even just allocate one coil per cylinder and still havbe then in the stock stealthy standard place. Then the new mods will slowly come.12 second streetable pass has to be there somehow..hehe

[66 coupe]

well you can also use an msd dis4 and the std coil packs or coil on plug, off the std ecu, obviously coil on plug will require a dis4 and dis2 to do all 6 channels

[FGII-XR6]

all you need is a simple buffer circuit this was actually from a tacho driver but you can adapt it with high power transistors you get the idea

[Stav]

I can use the dis 4 negative pulse with diodes to earth to drive the coilpacks.I hope!! I am hoping to drive 2 coils via each dis 4 negative pulse and simply have seperate power suppy.This would have the coils full charge going into each cylnder on compression stroke instead of half the power offered by the ford coilpack. Why fire a cylinder thats not doing anything?
I think that 2 cylinders in the six cylinder fire at the same time on compression stroke.So why not have a slightly different configuration and fire them with full blast of power? Even if the air fuel ratios change I should still see some great torque and power.
If the objective is achieved I think I will see better torque,power,idle and fuel economy.
The dis 4 pumps 400 odd volts into the primary winding so I think the negative pulse should be able to handle both.

[Sox]

I know it's not what you want to hear, but the standard system is very very good.
Their are sooo many other much more worthwhile things to do before even considering something like this.

I can't see you gaining absolutely anything with ignition mods to these AU's.
Rooting around with an already good ignition system might give you slightly improved idle at best, it might also give you slightly cleaner emmissions.
That is a big might thought.

Stick with the old saying, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

Rick.

[Stav]

I think tryng to avoid even 1 misfire through the rev range is more power to the road.Its good insurance. I hav had a good thimk about this.All I believe I need is a triple channel ignitor from haltech and I can run a spare second coilpack I already have.If the coilpacks fire in pairs you have to wonder which cylinder gets the bigger share of spark? One cylinder which is firing and under compression will divert more spark to the cylinder which has the easier environment for firing.If I dedicate each coil pack's spark to one post and then to one cylinder then it should be getting full coil spark instead of the spark energy being fired into thin air..The cars tachometer and injectors should still work I hope.If the ecu is firing 1twin coilpack each time then hopefully it cant distinguish if one of the posts on the first coil is off. The second coil would feed the corresponding cylinder to make it easy for intsallation.Essentially it will still be wasted spark but the firing cylinder will have full coil energy...I hope:(

I think the msd is a great unit but for what i am trying to achieve I dont need it. the other thing that I can do is use a stepup transformer/capacitor device to up the primary voltage and produce huge sparks.I estimate that the coil experimant should cost me..a guinea pig ecu ..100 dollars,an ignitor ...190 dollars.If I burn the ecu then I know it wont work lol... :

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Stav

I think tryng to avoid even 1 misfire through the rev range is more power to the road.Its good insurance. I hav had a good thimk about this.All I believe I need is a triple channel ignitor from haltech and I can run a spare second coilpack I already have.If the coilpacks fire in pairs you have to wonder which cylinder gets the bigger share of spark? One cylinder which is firing and under compression will divert more spark to the cylinder which has the easier environment for firing.If I dedicate each coil pack's spark to one post and then to one cylinder then it should be getting full coil spark instead of the spark energy being fired into thin air..The cars tachometer and injectors should still work I hope.If the ecu is firing 1twin coilpack each time then hopefully it cant distinguish if one of the posts on the first coil is off. The second coil would feed the corresponding cylinder to make it easy for intsallation.Essentially it will still be wasted spark but the firing cylinder will have full coil energy...I hope:(

I think the msd is a great unit but for what i am trying to achieve I dont need it. the other thing that I can do is use a stepup transformer/capacitor device to up the primary voltage and produce huge sparks.I estimate that the coil experimant should cost me..a guinea pig ecu ..100 dollars,an ignitor ...190 dollars.If I burn the ecu then I know it wont work lol... :

the "wasted spark system uses a centre tap coil so internally there are 6 coils fired in 3 chanels so both sides should get the same power

[Stav]

Hmm I might hacksaw the spare in half and have a good look around.

[private9]

Sorry to sound negative Stav, but what are you hoping to achieve out of this? AU ignitions systems are excellent when in good order, and you'd have to make an awful lot of power to need to start thinking about upgrades.

[5.0 ED]

Yeah but the wastespark system does fire one set set positive and the other 3 negative. Which used to matter on the old points setup's but no one seems to take any notice of this anymore?

[Stav]

Originally Posted by private9

Sorry to sound negative Stav, but what are you hoping to achieve out of this? AU ignitions systems are excellent when in good order, and you'd have to make an awful lot of power to need to start thinking about upgrades.

Its quite easy . I want it to go faster. AU stock ignitions can be improved.Some ts 50 boys run imodified ignition and have recorded drops of up to .4 of a second down the 1/4 mile. If these guys can get those improvements from improving on the standard ignition then I do believe it is a substandard comprimise at best which needs attention for the enthusiast who loves his hobby.I dont pretend to know it all but what I start I go to the ends of the earth to make it as best as it can be.

[5.0 ED]

It wouldn't be that hard to create a circuit using the injector pulses to align between the 2 engine cycles to split the 3 pulses into 6 for sequential spark, that part would be easy, the problem i see is that you then want to increase the coil charge time at which then in between the splitting unit and drivers you would then need to put in seperate dwell controllers for each cylinder, still not a hard thing, but will start to make the circuit more complex, therefore more likely to fault.

Although if you use a capacitive discharge unit, you could use a multiplexer setup to switch high voltage mosfets on and off to deliver the charge to individual cylinders. So therefore you only have one CDI unit just switching delivery to each coil on plug.

Here's something to think about, how come on a normal distributor motor, if you put the distributor in 180 out, the engine will backfire, yet a wastespark setup is firing the cylinders the same as well as at the correct time?

Stav if you wanted to try something like i mention i could design a schematic for you to use. I would interested to see/here what improvements it would make.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

It wouldn't be that hard to create a circuit using the injector pulses to align between the 2 engine cycles to split the 3 pulses into 6 for sequential spark, that part would be easy, the problem i see is that you then want to increase the coil charge time at which then in between the splitting unit and drivers you would then need to put in seperate dwell controllers for each cylinder, still not a hard thing, but will start to make the circuit more complex, therefore more likely to fault.

Although if you use a capacitive discharge unit, you could use a multiplexer setup to switch high voltage mosfets on and off to deliver the charge to individual cylinders. So therefore you only have one CDI unit just switching delivery to each coil on plug.

Here's something to think about, how come on a normal distributor motor, if you put the distributor in 180 out, the engine will backfire, yet a wastespark setup is firing the cylinders the same as well as at the correct time?

Stav if you wanted to try something like i mention i could design a schematic for you to use. I would interested to see/here what improvements it would make.

Thanks heaps for your offer man. I think the easiest way is to install an msd add on.Thanks just the same.

[5.0 ED]

no probs

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Stav

Its quite easy . I want it to go faster. AU stock ignitions can be improved.Some ts 50 boys run imodified ignition and have recorded drops of up to .4 of a second down the 1/4 mile.

And if you believe that, you probably think pigs fly too.
0.4 sec will need a minimum of 40hp on a well sorted car. You're not going to achieve that on an engine in the state of tune that yours is with a supposed superior ignition.

If these guys can get those improvements from improving on the standard ignition then I do believe it is a substandard comprimise at best which needs attention for the enthusiast who loves his hobby.I dont pretend to know it all but what I start I go to the ends of the earth to make it as best as it can be.

But you're not going to the ends of the earth, you only wasting time on something which doesn't need attention.
If you were going to the end of the earth, you'd already have thrown a turbo and N20 on the wagon and be running 10's.

And BTW, with the turbo and N20, you would then need an upgraded ignition, but you definitley don't at this point.

Rick.

[5.0 ED]

Yeah but if he wants to try it, then its his perogative and if people like stav didn't experiment with things that other people are negative about and don't think will work than we'd never discover anything.

Personally i wonder why you all think the AU has a good ignition system? Personally i'd rather have a good distributor/coil setup over waste spark anyday, lean an au out and watch it backfire.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

Yeah but if he wants to try it, then its his perogative

Naturally, but Stav works hard for his money like the rest of us, if my advice helps him save his money, then that's a good thing.

and if people like stav didn't experiment with things that other people are negative about and don't think will work than we'd never discover anything.

Of course, however I'm not saying it won't work. What I am saying is that at this stage of his engine tune, it will simply not make any difference. He is not going to pull 0.4 seconds from an upgraded ignition system at this stage. The standard system in good working order is more than good enough.

Personally i wonder why you all think the AU has a good ignition system? Personally i'd rather have a good distributor/coil setup over waste spark anyday, lean an au out and watch it backfire.

So what? Don't lean it it out and it won't happen.

I never said a wasted spark ignition system is the ants pants, however it is plenty good enough for an engine which isn't even close to 100hp per litre or even revving beyond 8000rpm, let alone 6000rpm.
It's all nice and well to go radically changing things in the hope of massive HP gains because a methanol burning 9000rpm pro-stock engine did, but I think Stav needs to put things into perspective.

It's a only a fairly mild engine (by race standards) at this stage.

You could probably pour diesel down it's throat and it would still fire......

Rick.

[5.0 ED]

Yeah but an improved ignition system will still make gains on the engine, however small/large they will be. and personally i think you'll be quiet surprised on the improvements he will get, not to mention improved fuel economy and overall smoothness and driveability. I have run these engines with a lot better than stock ignition and there is definite improvements there.

[Stav]

Ive kept tabs on this thread from some time back.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=68450

I had followed it with interest and think that after a few pm's that firefox 7 is terrific reliable member.
Sox... I just feel like modifying everything that can give me a bit more ... I am a little ...
Different..heheh :