M1 & Motorbikes in Melbourne

Falcon_Crazy · 28-12-2007, 06:41 AM

I stayed at my Brotehrs place in Drouin a week or so ago and commuted via the M1 into our Mulgrave office. The Packenham bypass had just opened - saved 20 mins on the trip, but the thing still becomes a bottle neck.

Anyways, i have no problem with bikes scooting between traffic when its stopped or doing say less than 30km/h. I was suprised however, that the practice (forget what its called) continue up to and over speeds of 80km/h.

I becamse very aware of it (I am always on the lookout for bikes) but these folk seem to take some big risks - all it would take is someone talking on their mobile, getting distracted by kids etc, move a little and clean up the biker?

Any Mexicans here seen it? I havenet seen it on Sydney Freeways (I'm talking about once we get up to speed)?

Surely its illegal? Like i said, have no problems when it happens at lights etc - sometime wish the Ute could transform and i could jump to the head of the queue!

**Full Noise** · 28-12-2007, 08:00 AM

The practice that you’re referring to (at high speed) is lane splitting. They tend to call if lane filtering at low speeds. I’m not sure of the legalities, although, I don’t have a problem with it. Like everything, there’s people that will do it with more caution that others.

It’s usually fairly easy to tell the riders that have never been off before. At the end of the day, they know (or should know) the risks involved if they choose to do it at high speed.

**Falcon Coupe** · 28-12-2007, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

It’s usually fairly easy to tell the riders that have never been off before. At the end of the day, they know (or should know) the risks involved if they choose to do it at high speed.

So true, the ones with running shoes and T-shirts flapping at the back showing bare skin have never been off.

Best to drive and ignore them, it's the bikers responsibility to look after themselves, be buggered if i would commute the M1 on a bike, looks like Russian roulette with the lane jumping cars.

Pinkbits · 28-12-2007, 09:14 AM

What you are describing is common practice here for motocyclists.
Another one of their favorites is to fly up the emergency lane at great speed when traffic is very heavy.

LTDHO · 28-12-2007, 10:10 AM

Bikes to it at any speed, even when doing 100kph a bike will still pass between cars.

Hey it's their lives, if they want to end it early, it's up to them.

Yellow_Festiva · 28-12-2007, 10:24 AM

Just this morning I merged with the freeway at speed. Bike up my bum. I indicated and merged into the left lane, then held the blinker to continue to the right lane as it was empty, it would have been a fluid motion had the bike not been 1m behind me then overtook me mid way through the whole thing and caused me to swerve back into the left lane again to sake this fool from getting wiped out by me.....

No blinkers, no real care for their safety... I wonder if I have hit them (would have been more of a side swipe) who would have been at fault?

**Mechan1k** · 28-12-2007, 08:51 PM

It happens in Sydney all the time ... even in the CBD as well ... there's some crazy riders out there.

There's a number of motorcyclists that ride into work as well ... and from waht I have seen so far we have decent riders here ... one of my colleagues doesn't do it ... he has seen a number of time where irresponsible riders do it and get collected ... not a pretty sight.

I have seen a rider get collected by a semi doing the same thing ... poor trucker driver didn't get a chance to spot him cos the rider was really moving. Rider was also one of those T-shirt and track shoe riders (on a sports bike as well) ... some people will never learn I guess.

Silentsfastcar · 28-12-2007, 09:01 PM

It is illegal. bike are under the same rules as cars, and if a car passed between 2 moving veichles they would be charged with reckless driving or somthing. as much as the police dont mind it at lights (and i dont think anyone else does) it shouldnt been done at speed.

I know some ppl say 'meh there life' but what if you were the car that hit the bike as it illegally passed between 2 cars, and you ran the the guy over.. you life is in turmoil aswell!!! Bikers should have more respect for there own lives and the road rules!!!!

Agent86 · 29-12-2007, 08:41 AM

the amount of times i have been dawdling down the monash and had these tempoary australians split betwen my semi and another one at speed it getting rediculous.

in a big rig all it takes is an undulation in the road to be on a certian angle and the trucks 'wander'. i've already had a lane splitter under the front of my rig after he hit a car infront of me. they will not learn because they dont want to.

RG · 29-12-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentsfastcar

It is illegal. bike are under the same rules as cars, and if a car passed between 2 moving veichles they would be charged with reckless driving or somthing. as much as the police dont mind it at lights (and i dont think anyone else does) it shouldnt been done at speed.

I know some ppl say 'meh there life' but what if you were the car that hit the bike as it illegally passed between 2 cars, and you ran the the guy over.. you life is in turmoil aswell!!! Bikers should have more respect for there own lives and the road rules!!!!

Not in Victoria it's not, quite the opposite. Only when traffic is stopped though. Lane splitting at high speed is just stupid and illegal.

kaldek · 29-12-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

the amount of times i have been dawdling down the monash and had these tempoary australians split betwen my semi and another one at speed it getting rediculous.

in a big rig all it takes is an undulation in the road to be on a certian angle and the trucks 'wander'. i've already had a lane splitter under the front of my rig after he hit a car infront of me. they will not learn because they dont want to.

Hmmm, interesting. You've probably seen me go past you a couple of times as I ride the Monash from Cranbourne to the CBD & back every day. I will lane split past trucks (and between trucks) but only between them if I can chuck it down three gears and do it in less than a couple of seconds and if I judge the gap wide enough to shrink due to one or both of the rigs wandering. Accelerating like a madman is basically the lowest-risk method here.

Anyway from my perspective, trucks aren't the most risk to a rider but have the greatest (worst) consequences if you get hit by one. I will often come up behind a truck and then spend some time waiting until there is a side of the rig where the other vehicles there are cars and hence more space. I also won't overtake a truck on a bend, because they wander in the lane.

Ultimately, anyone not on a bike will be seeing what I do and probably having a heart attack. As the rider, you get used to the smaller tolerances available and if you're smart, you find the method that still reduces your risk. Here are some basic rules I live by:

Understand that your aim is not to avoid cars as much as it is to avoid their mirrors. Tall cars, SUVs, Vans all have mirrors at the same height as bike mirrors
Never lane split at a speed more than 20km/h faster than the other vehicles, unless in traffic with low congestion and you can "slalom" at an angle, constantly performing complete lane changes. Requires lots of space between cars and good braking distances.
Never lane split when one lane is travelling much faster than the other. People stuck in the slow lane will see the other lane moving faster and perform sudden moves to get into that lane.
Never sit between two trucks any more than 2-3 seconds at most. Always hang back at the rear of the trailer until a clear path is found. Note that buses are worse than trucks because they are full width all the way down to the road surface!
Know that any gap the size of a car in traffic will entice drivers to suddenly change lanes into it. Slow down to accomodate these expected sudden moves!
When lanesplitting and one of the above gaps appears, move INTO that gap to ensure you are already heading away on an angle from the vehicle that is likely to try and move into it.
When overtaking trucks, do not shoot past and then BRAKE! This ****es truckers off no end. While *I* may know that I'm going to accelerate again, the trucker doesn't and sees only a rapidly closing gap.
When lane splitting past a truck, be aware of the car at the trucks' front quarter panel will probably change langes in front of the truck because of the gap that is often there. Merge quickly into this gap and accelerate away in case the car attempts this move (and potentially pushes you under the trucks' front wheel).
Always cover the brakes at ALL times
Take a break when things get dicey, and use the mental relief to get your bearings again before splitting once more
Never use emergency lanes unless for very short periods and only to avoid danger. It's blatantly being an otherwise.
Never lane split between vehicles and concrete barriers
Never lane split between vehicles and the edge of the roadway (emergency lane)

Lastly, I will say that countries and cities with extreme congestion both condone and promote lane splitting. The use of two wheeled transport in these environments does improve congestion and allow more people to use the road with less effect on traffic. To suggest that somehow it is inherently "deadly" here is not a valid argument. If the road laws had specific exemptions that allowed lane splitting we would be know the difference between the people who do it "smart" and those that are living on borrowed time. Unfortunately muppets are always going to exist and we should avoid tarring everyone with the same brush, and also understand that even experienced riders make mistakes now and then.

Pinkbits · 29-12-2007, 10:45 AM

Hmmm. Kaldek, you've contradicted your own "rules" at least once that i picked up.

GTpilot · 29-12-2007, 10:58 AM

Yeah, I drive the Monash every day. and Yeah I have nearly wiped out a few " lane splitters", they way I see it is you should not be there, so if I hit you... too bad, just another impatient idiot this planet can do without.
So Kaldek, if you see a Yellow XR8 on the monash, beware it could be me. If I want to move to the next lane that has some room, i'm going, I dont care what is in between.

Agent86 · 29-12-2007, 12:01 PM

kaldek,

When i spot a rider sitting just off my trailer i ALWAYS move to the extreeme other side of my lane to provide room. unless you are afforderd room by the vehicles driver, your really just playing russian roulette ( i ride dirt and road also ).

i know that its quicker, but it allows very little margin for error. usually by a inattentive car driver. i have seen too many bikes cleaned up and the rideres litteraly scraped off the road to ever agree that this is sensible at anything except lights where the vehicles are stopped.

RG · 29-12-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgb

Yeah, I drive the Monash every day. and Yeah I have nearly wiped out a few " lane splitters", they way I see it is you should not be there, so if I hit you... too bad, just another impatient idiot this planet can do without.
So Kaldek, if you see a Yellow XR8 on the monash, beware it could be me. If I want to move to the next lane that has some room, i'm going, I dont care what is in between.

That's a real good attitude you have there. I know now if I ever see you on the Monash that I'll be staying well clear because with an attitude like that you shouldn't be on the roads.

kaldek · 29-12-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

Hmmm. Kaldek, you've contradicted your own "rules" at least once that i picked up.

Yeah if you're referring to never using the emergency lane, I should have clarified that as not to use it just to get past a line of other vehicles. I've used the emergency lane probably twice in 12 months - for a total of about 20 metres, and only to move past cars which had become wedged in between lanes and about to be hit by traffic in the other lane.

loony888 · 29-12-2007, 12:56 PM

in qld it's illegal to pass a vehicle on the left unless that vehicle is indicating to turn right or there is a marked lane to the left of it.
that said, i ride, and have done for 20 years, and i often filter through stationary traffic past police and have never had a problem. riders frequently blast up the fog line during peak hour and the police book them for that and lane splitting moving traffic.
yes, some riders are idiots, yes, some think they are immortal and should have more respect for road users, but some of the attitudes expressed here demonstrate clearly why i and most of the guys i ride with give cars a wide berth and make every effort to stay well clear, and to hell with what car drivers think about it.
I have been seriously injured (13 weeks in hospital) by a careless driver and it changed my life completely, but it was an accident, i can live with it, and the guy that hit me, he lives with the fact he nearly killed me by accident every day. I wonder how you may cope with the fact you not only didn't care, but may have contributed to another person, rider or not, being injured???

kaldek · 29-12-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgb

Yeah, I drive the Monash every day. and Yeah I have nearly wiped out a few " lane splitters", they way I see it is you should not be there, so if I hit you... too bad, just another impatient idiot this planet can do without.
So Kaldek, if you see a Yellow XR8 on the monash, beware it could be me. If I want to move to the next lane that has some room, i'm going, I dont care what is in between.

Mate, that is so aggro! I'm just trying to show how mature riders spend effort on minimising the risk of a crash when they lanesplit. I don't doubt you have nearly cleaned up a lot of absolute tossers on bikes, and I don't apologise for their behaviour.

I'm sure it won't convince you otherwise of how you perceive me. I can only say that I'm a good bloke and I think my kids would be a tad upset to know I was killed by somebody who saw me and still changed lanes just because they didn't like what I was doing. Should I print your forum post out and tell my wife to keep it in case a yellow XR8 hits me on the Monash?

Kryton · 29-12-2007, 01:21 PM

im a rider myself so lane splitting isnt a big deal to me.
however, 2 days ago i had a guy on a bike overtake me on the left hand side of the car, now im not talking as if im on a 4 lane freeway either, it was a normal city street. so it was me, small gap and then a gutter, and thats it.
i was so tempted to drive him in to the gutter and take him out just for being a dumb , and i know for a fact i would not have been in the wrong legally either so if any one else thinks that its cool to overtake on the left hand side on a normal road - think again.
and yes, it was another in shorts and thongs so the lesson would have been valuable to him any way.

flame away, i dont really care.
do stupid things on a bike and you will pay the price - its only a matter of time.

**Falcon Coupe** · 29-12-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

i was so tempted to drive him in to the gutter and take him out just for being a dumb ,

You want to hurt/kill someone yet they are the dumb one ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

and i know for a fact i would not have been in the wrong legally

Deliberately hitting someone regardless of what they are doing is a crime and the fact they are dumb would not keep you out of jail if you killed them.

These threads always deteriorate to fantasy's of violence towards bikers for some reason, keep them to yourself.

loony888 · 29-12-2007, 01:38 PM

i'm just thankful i have no reason to go to warrnambool...................

Kryton · 29-12-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

You want to hurt/kill someone yet they are the dumb one? Deliberately hitting someone regardless of what they are doing is a crime and the fact they are dumb would not keep you out of jail if you killed them.
These threads always deteiorate to fantasy's of violence towards bikers for some reason, keep them to yourself.

no, i dont want to hurt kill someone otherwise id being running people down left right and centre.
as for the legalities, its a ONE lane road, i am ENTITLED BY LAW to use any and all of that lane if i choose. i can drive in the middle of that lane, to the left of that lane or to the right of that lane.
overtaking anywhere on a single lane is ILLEGAL and plain stupid.
he was just lucky i seen him before he overtook and i wasnt one of those drivers that swerve through a lane as they drive (you know the ones that cant drive in a nice straight line).
keep your BS to yourself, im just saying what happened and how he should be thankful that i or anyone else didnt take him out.
oh, and just to put you all at rest, the police were called by a pedestrian (i assume) and when i drove past again, he was being arrested and his bike was going on the back of a flat bed.

Pinkbits · 29-12-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaldek

I will lane split past trucks (and between trucks) but only between them if I can chuck it down three gears and do it in less than a couple of seconds

Here are some basic rules I live by:

[*]Never lane split at a speed more than 20km/h faster than the other vehicles, unless in traffic with low congestion and you can "slalom" at an angle, constantly performing complete lane changes. Requires lots of space between cars and good braking distances.

No. This one.
Surely when you "chuck it down three gears" it would increase your speed by a lot more than 20km/h.

plext · 29-12-2007, 02:25 PM

Regardless of how idiotic anyone is being, you are compelled by law (no caps, I'll assume it's readable anyway) to avoid a collision to the best of your ability while not endangering others.

Whether they are breaking the law or not is irrelevant, you break the law once you decide to deliberately ram or "squeeze" somebody off the road and will do very poorly in a court if it can be proven your actions were deliberate.

You may feel that you have some basic right to kill or maim people for being stupid. The law thankfully disagrees with you.

Once again, I shall thank the inept and idiotic for putting their heads on show and saving us the trouble of finding them.