Lambo seized after mechanic caught speeding

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I would be ropeable i. . . . under insurance - EXACTLY THE SAME people!

wow . . . . facts and no emotion on aff - what has gone right

[b0son]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

if the attitudes of mechanics changed throughout the country and they suddenly started respecting cars (how many threads/posts have we had about mechanics not respecting cars???), then the chances of your car being written off have been greatly reduced. that could be a good thing - not that anyone here can see that point

impound THEIR car, and the mechanics might. impound someone else's? pretty unlikely. they'll just pay the fine and move on. not that you can see that point...

[fiery]

You might even find that they will use the reasoning that the owner of the vehicle gave permission for the test drive and therefore knew beforehand what the driver would or would not be doing.
In this scenario they can hold the vehicle under the hoon laws.

It is not correct but it is the way our laws are written that makes it possible to punish an innocent party.

It is the same for anyone who is selling a vehicle or lets a 'mate' borrow their vehicle, if that person is caught then the car can and will be impounded as they had permission to use the vehicle.

I agree with gtxb67 on the fact that this just might (I did say might) mean that other people will not suffer the same fate because not only has this particular mechanic brought shame upon himself and the business but I bet your bottom dollar not too many will be willing to leave their cars in that shops care again. This in itself will hopefully have the follow through like gtxb67 says and make everyone's car a little less likely to be wrecked or driven like it is stolen.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

What if the law allowed it to get crushed? The HOON mechanic can replace it at whatever cost that is to his financial future and mental health.

And have the courts put the poor dear on a payment plan? Remember, they will allow him to keep enough for rent and living costs, and garnish whetever is left over... $30/wk sound fair? Its quite possible for the owner to NEVER get fully compensated.

EXACTLY the same if he wrote it off and wasn't covered under insurance - EXACTLY THE SAME people!

If an employee wrecked a customer's car, the employer is liable, and then its between the employer's insurance and the employee to sort out between themselves.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

plus some of you are forgetting this can be used retroactively as well

if you are caught by speed camera,regardless of how little over the speed limit you are they can send u the fine in the mail AND if they feel like it come around and impound your car.

even if you were not driving it.

and the reason the do it DJL?

Yes it can/could happen that way - I seem to rmember a forum member here even posted pics of his car being loaded on the tilt tray out the front of the house.

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

because all we do is waive a fist around saying we dont agree with it.

No, because we have a small group of idiots that are stuffing it up for the rest.

My mother in law, after seeing this story on the news, thought it was great...
Because speed kills.
Once I sat her down and explained it better (using her 17 year old grandson as the example), she changed her tune.

While the general public ('The Sheep') keep their eyes closed and leave their trust in these self rightous pollies (or is that wallys?) we will get the blunt end.

Originally Posted by Big Mike

However - that's the intention of the law - and some moron mechanic, or off duty cop, or anyone else thinks they're above the law and can go for a HOON in someone else's car, then they damned well deserve to stand before me, or that Doc, and explain why we haven't got our cars; What if the law allowed it to get crushed?

This can not happen (in WA at least) - it clearly states in the traffic act that if the driver is not the owner, the car can not be crushed. (introduced to protect Hire Car companies etc)
However, the Judge CAN impound the car for longer.

Originally Posted by fiery

You might even find that they will use the reasoning that the owner of the vehicle gave permission for the test drive and therefore knew beforehand what the driver would or would not be doing.
In this scenario they can hold the vehicle under the hoon laws.

It is not correct but it is the way our laws are written that makes it possible to punish an innocent party.

100% on the money Fiery.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by b0son

impound THEIR car, and the mechanics might. impound someone else's? pretty unlikely. they'll just pay the fine and move on. not that you can see that point...

great point. which car do you impound. his good car or the $1000 bomb that is parked onsite - he loses a bomb and then moves on. everyone wins really
that way, no one would have heard about it - case closed
this way, the whole country knows about it and his reputation is know a little worse for wear. if he was working on a lambo, it is a safe bet that he works on other high performance cars, not just vl's. now at the very least all of his customers are very cautious and maybe, just maybe he will be more cautious and it will filter down the line
and by the way, the driver would have received the fine and demerit points, not the owner




if everyone hates these rules so much, do something about them. the effort that goes into posts on a forum would surely be much better spent putting the steps into place to change these rules - but i think most people do not want the rules changed; that way they would have one less thing to complain about

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by blueluvr

So when does it stop being a speeding fine and become a "hoon" offence?

If you do 45km/h over the posted limit, then that's a hoon offence and you're liable for a bit of impounding action.

There is also a crazy catch-all clause in the Road Traffic Act 1974 which says that anyone who does more than 155km/h anywhere in the state commits an offence - used to be reckless I think but now its probably a hooning offence.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by b0son

why? there's no forensic evidence to be collected. the car is only kept as a punitive measure - how does punishing the owner impose a punishment on the driver?

its also a pretty long bow to draw when comparing a traffic matter with a criminal matter. different courts, different laws, etc...

Summed up my thoughts

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

if everyone hates these rules so much, do something about them. the effort that goes into posts on a forum would surely be much better spent putting the steps into place to change these rules - but i think most people do not want the rules changed; that way they would have one less thing to complain about

do you agree with the rules? if not is AFF willing(along with agreement from other forums/car clubs) to back an independant to federal government on a "motorists" platform?

agreed.

i think people want justice. not the cr*p people keep getting. and yes most people would rather have thr rules changed. to a fairer system.

one man can only change the rules if he has the backing of the people.

15 million people in this country have a license.

2% of 15 million translates into 300,000 votes.

more then enough to get someone up there.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

do you agree with the rules? if not is AFF willing(along with agreement from other forums/car clubs) to back an independant to federal government on a "motorists" platform?

one man can only change the rules if he has the backing of the people.

i do not disagree with all - but i am not complaining about them either


i am not saying whether this actual rule is right or wrong - both sides have merit . . . . what i have been trying to do is just show the side of the law into this. it seems most people are posting on emotion, but the law is the law. it has it's reasons, and some of those reasons have maybe been touched on - and as silly as it seems, maybe some positives can come out of this for everyone

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i do not disagree with all - but i am not complaining about them either


i am not saying whether this actual rule is right or wrong - both sides have merit . . . . what i have been trying to do is just show the side of the law into this. it seems most people are posting on emotion, but the law is the law. it has it's reasons, and some of those reasons have maybe been touched on - and as silly as it seems, maybe some positives can come out of this for everyone

not dismissing your point there dude. im saying that the law mayb be the law, but when it's not fair/justified then it should be fixed.

in this case it needs to be.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

not dismissing your point there dude. im saying that the law mayb be the law, but when it's not fair/justified then it should be fixed.

in this case it needs to be.

the hoon laws may be wrong, but i am not totally against them

my friend was pushed into a pole by an idiot 10 years ago. it was deemed they were dragging, which was totally incorrect, but whether they were dragging or not was irrelevant. the result was the same
i do not believe my friend was dangerous on the road, but i wish his car was taken off him through the hoon laws and crushed. of course, while understanding the laws side, i would have hated that stituation - but in hindsight, it might have saved his life
it is all hypothetical of course, because nothing can be changed, but given the choice, i would rather have seen his car crushed without him in it



i am probably neither for or against the hoon laws - for sure i would be annoyed if the coupe was impounded, particularly if someone else was driving, but to me, i don't think changing which car gets impounded would necessarily make it better overall

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i see your point, but the rules have been in place for a long time now. i know them, you probably know them, the mechanic and the doctor would have known them. i cannot change the rules and like most others here, i have no interest in trying. unlike most others i will not complain about them, because someone did something idiotic. i try to find postive things out most situations, not bag the crap out of our rules in the hope that someone else will do something

imagine dave, if you took your landau to a mechanic and he wrapped it around a pole, being silly. now (of course it is hypothetical, because there is no meaningful facts to back it up one way or the other), if the attitudes of mechanics changed throughout the country and they suddenly started respecting cars (how many threads/posts have we had about mechanics not respecting cars???), then the chances of your car being written off have been greatly reduced. that could be a good thing - not that anyone here can see that point

Sorry Gary but I cannot see it this way ....... If my Landau was at the mechanics and was taken for a test drive by one of them, was caught doing 40 over and the car was taken away ..... I would not be sitting quietly saying "I will cop that!" No way in 1 million years .....

No way in hell would I say .... Yep ... good call taking my car away for a month ..... this way he wont do it to someone else's car! The reason this is all just so illogical is that it DOES NOTHING to stop hoons, DOES NOTHING to deter people, DOES NOTHING to lower any tolls, DOES NOTHING but stuffs up the lives of an innocent person. Throw the book at the person who is in the wrong!

I give my car to a professional to perform a duty, if he becomes unprofessional, he should be the one who cops everything 100% ..... not share with an innocent party who's only crime is trusting that professional

Yes I agree with hoon laws ... to a certain extent ... but not to this degree .... who is being punished? Not just the person who has done it.

I am not giving up my Landau for a month so my mechanic can learn a valuable lesson in responsibility.

Gees this one has got me rattled!



| [/url] |

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Sorry Gary but I cannot see it this way ....... If my Landau was at the mechanics and was taken for a test drive by one of them, was caught doing 40 over and was the car was taken away ..... I would not be sitting quietly saying "I will cop that!" No way in 1 million years .....

i never said you would - my example was based a parallel universe if you like
one universe has a mechanic who did not respect your car and had no worries about hoon laws applying to it, and while being stupid, crashed it
the other universe had the same mechanic who had learnt to respect cars due to the hoon laws and therefore not crashing it

which one would you like - of course there is no way to show which one will save cars and lives, but if this case helps mechanics to respect our cars just a bit, it can have a positive effect on us

whether he should cop it or not means nothing, if respect is shown and no one gets caughting hooning in a customer car

[pottery beige]

Wish i worked somewhere i could take some rich doc's Lambo for a squirt......

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i never said you would - my example was based a parallel universe if you like
one universe has a mechanic who did not respect your car and had no worries about hoon laws applying to it, and while being stupid, crashed it
the other universe had the same mechanic who had learnt to respect cars due to the hoon laws and therefore not crashing it

which one would you like - of course there is no way to show which one will save cars and lives, but if this case helps mechanics to respect our cars just a bit, it can have a positive effect on us

whether he should cop it or not means nothing, if respect is shown and no one gets caughting hooning in a customer car

and whats to stop them impounding it if the driver was only doing 10klm over the speed limit?

whats to stop them from impounding it if the driver took off from the lights in first all the way to 60?

whats to stop him impounding it because he was jelous?

even rusted out model T's would have less holes..

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

and whats to stop them impounding it if the driver was only doing 10klm over the speed limit?

whats to stop them from impounding it if the driver took off from the lights in first all the way to 60?

whats to stop him impounding it because he was jelous?

even rusted out model T's would have less holes..

nothing at all
my reply was not about whether the laws are right or wrong. whether the police are in a good mood or not

my reply yet again, was suggesting that if this one mechanic changes his attitude and then this attitude change filters down through to the other mechanics, then they will not be hooning and our cars will generally be respected, and relatively safe and will probably not get taken away
if the attitude stays the same, our cars will continue to be thrashed to within an inch of their lives - and of course while they are getting thrashed instead of driven properly the chances of losing our pride and joy greatly increases

i have never said the law was perfect - just tried to look at a potential positive that may be good for all of us - once again, if the law is wrong do something about it - whinging is not something

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Sorry Gary but I cannot see it this way ....... If my Landau was at the mechanics and was taken for a test drive by one of them, was caught doing 40 over and the car was taken away ..... I would not be sitting quietly saying "I will cop that!" No way in 1 million years .....

No way in hell would I say .... Yep ... good call taking my car away for a month ..... this way he wont do it to someone else's car! The reason this is all just so illogical is that it DOES NOTHING to stop hoons, DOES NOTHING to deter people, DOES NOTHING to lower any tolls, DOES NOTHING but stuffs up the lives of an innocent person. Throw the book at the person who is in the wrong!

I give my car to a professional to perform a duty, if he becomes unprofessional, he should be the one who cops everything 100% ..... not share with an innocent party who's only crime is trusting that professional

Yes I agree with hoon laws ... to a certain extent ... but not to this degree .... who is being punished? Not just the person who has done it.

I am not giving up my Landau for a month so my mechanic can learn a valuable lesson in responsibility.

Gees this one has got me rattled!

Never a truer word spoken, here here

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Sorry Gary but I cannot see it this way ....... If my Landau was at the mechanics and was taken for a test drive by one of them, was caught doing 40 over and the car was taken away ..... I would not be sitting quietly saying "I will cop that!" No way in 1 million years .....

No way in hell would I say .... Yep ... good call taking my car away for a month ..... this way he wont do it to someone else's car! The reason this is all just so illogical is that it DOES NOTHING to stop hoons, DOES NOTHING to deter people, DOES NOTHING to lower any tolls, DOES NOTHING but stuffs up the lives of an innocent person. Throw the book at the person who is in the wrong!

I give my car to a professional to perform a duty, if he becomes unprofessional, he should be the one who cops everything 100% ..... not share with an innocent party who's only crime is trusting that professional

Yes I agree with hoon laws ... to a certain extent ... but not to this degree .... who is being punished? Not just the person who has done it.

I am not giving up my Landau for a month so my mechanic can learn a valuable lesson in responsibility.

Gees this one has got me rattled!

I understand you would be upset - I would be too. I fact they would have to hold me down so I didn't hurt the clown.
However, I did give him my vehicle. And I did (do) have knowledge of the current rules/laws.

It is flawed - but then again most additions to the Traffic Act(s) of late have been rushed. Which brings us to the part I put in Bold. That statement could easely cover most of the current hoon act laws in all the states. (IMO)

[flappist]

This is always the problem when laws are pushed through on "expert" advice from academic idiots who do not understand the real world and just want to push their philosophy and agenda.

The gun crime problem in Sydney and Melbourne right now is DIRECTLY because of a loophole in John Howards gun laws the allowed over 100,000 handguns to legally "disappear" straight into the hands of "the wrong people". It took from 1996 to 2001 to fix the law because no one would accept that they had stuffed it up.

There are not many things in the universe larger than the egos or stupidity of academics.......

[UNR8D]

^^ by far the funniest **** ive read all day. and unfortunataly 100% true.

[BOSHOG]

what a load of rubbish, he did not give him the vehicle to opperate outside the law. any tradesman has a DUTY OF CARE to treat his clients in a just and fair manner. in no way is it acceptable or legal to take a customers car 30km away and drive it like it that.

all the people out there who are defending the decision; THERE IS NO WAY IN THE BLUEST OF BLUE HELL YOU WOULD COP THIS IF IT WAS YOUR CAR so stop acting like you would, its disgusting

as ive said before if any mechanic had my car that far from the workshop i consider it a police matter. no exceptions

[b0son]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

one universe has a mechanic who did not respect your car and had no worries about hoon laws applying to it, and while being stupid, crashed it
the other universe had the same mechanic who had learnt to respect cars due to the hoon laws and therefore not crashing it

how has he learnt respect? by deferring the punishment to someone else??? you have a warped view of human nature.

if this case helps mechanics to respect our cars just a bit, it can have a positive effect on us

by having a negative impact on us???

whether he should cop it or not means nothing

it means EVERYTHING. the end does not justify the means.

they say that we get the government we deserve. reading opinions such as yours only reinforces my view that the majority are too stupid to deserve a vote.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

what a load of rubbish, he did not give him the vehicle to opperate outside the law. any tradesman has a DUTY OF CARE to treat his clients in a just and fair manner. in no way is it acceptable or legal to take a customers car 30km away and drive it like it that.

Two totaly different arguments.
Yes - it would be fair to ask why the vehicle was driven so far away from the workshop.

But, what if he only went 1.2Km up the road and got done for hooning?

The traffic act clearly states that ANY car used in a hoon offence will be taken. - The owner, in giving the car to the workshop, did so with the knowledge of this. (don't try and tell me he might not have known - it is a driver's responsibility to know their states current Traffic Act)
Did he expect to have the car taken? - No.

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

all the people out there who are defending the decision; THERE IS NO WAY IN THE BLUEST OF BLUE HELL YOU WOULD COP THIS IF IT WAS YOUR CAR so stop acting like you would, its disgusting

As stated already - I would need to be held down and i would be spitting and calling for blood. HOWEVER - would still be without a car for 28 days.

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

as ive said before if any mechanic had my car that far from the workshop i consider it a police matter. no exceptions

On what grounds?

[eb2fairmont]

Why doesn't the owner launch a legal action against the government for impounding his property?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

if this one mechanic changes his attitude and then this attitude change filters down through to the other mechanics, then they will not be hooning and our cars will generally be respected, and relatively safe and will probably not get taken away

what's more likely to instill a change in attitude, punishing the culprit? or splitting the punishment between the culprit and another party?

you seem to be assuming the act of punishing the victim somehow fills the culprit with greater remorse/guilt, sufficient to ensure a lower likelihood of a repeat offence.

i suggest you have no real idea about how the human psyche works.

[4Vman]

The mechanic should forfeit his own car, and the customer given his own car back, end of story.
Im sure common sense will prevail and the customer gets his car back.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by DJL351

The traffic act clearly states that ANY car used in a hoon offence will be taken.

The magistrate, at their discretion, can order the car be returned.

Their was nothing to be gained by impounding the car.

[ltd_on20s]

this reminds me of the times when if someone broke into your home and tripped over your coffee table while you chased them they could sue for compensation.

thank god for public outcry.

they may not be public outcry on this because car owners have been demonised so much.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im sure common sense will prevail and the customer gets his car back.

Dont bet on it. The police minister has already put in his 2c and will no doubt expect the magistrate to toe the line.