mondeo handling

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by Binny

My car came with a full size spare rim with a brand new Primacy on it.
I can't really comment on it though because when I swapped it with the OE Goodyears to try and find the source of the shimmy the car didn't like it at all. Probably because of the sheer difference in grip and probably diameter as well due to it being new. I did price them but they are 200 each here and no 3 for 4 deal at the moment.
I'm looking forward to having 4 identical brand new tyres.

Four tyres the same is always a Good Thing.

The OE Primacy is not the same tyre as the Primacy 3 ST. The OE tyre is the Primacy HP and has been replaced in Europe by the Primacy 3. Michelin then modified the tyre for Asian conditions (crap roads, heavy rain, better wear), renamed it the Primacy ST and make it in Thailand.

I don't know what you're paying for the Yokos, but I would highly recommend the Michelins. Only downside is they're not sports tyres, but then the Mondeo isn't exactly a sports car.

Check this out also: http://www.productreview.com.au/p/mi...macy-3-st.html

[Binny]

Yeah I'm sure they are good. You really can't go wrong with any of the big Euro or Jap brands. Bridgey, Yoko, Michelin, Pirelli etc.
I'm getting the Yokos for 200 each though with one for free, so just over $600. And they are getting really good reviews. Never had Yokos before so I will report on how they go.
Michelin only have a cash back offer going for sets of 4. And for 16's its 50 bucks. So $750 for the set. With Christmas coming that was the Yokos won. They have to be better than what I have now.

[NZ XR6]

I understand, that is quite a price difference. Please let us know what you think of them.

Mind you, almost anything is better than the Excellence! I thought they were almost dangerous in the wet.

[Binny]

Well its very wet out there today. On the way home the the Yokies felt very good considering the conditions and turn in response feels a lot better. I'm sure that they will improve more as they scrub in.
Unfortunately the vibration is still there but it has moved. It still has the shimmy at motorway speeds but now gets a lot worse when I use the brakes. It feels like a warped rotor but it wasn't doing that under brakes on the way in.
So that confirms to me that the problem is a wheel and that it has been moved from the back to the front during the tyre change.
I just don't get why they couldn't detect it on the tyre balancer. All 4 wheels have been balanced 4 times now at 3 different places.
I can understand why people get frustrated at dealers for ongoing issues. My vibration problem is only a niggly issue but it's been going for 18 months now and it's annoying the heck out of me.

[ope126]

Originally Posted by Binny

Well its very wet out there today. On the way home the the Yokies felt very good considering the conditions and turn in response feels a lot better. I'm sure that they will improve more as they scrub in.
Unfortunately the vibration is still there but it has moved. It still has the shimmy at motorway speeds but now gets a lot worse when I use the brakes. It feels like a warped rotor but it wasn't doing that under brakes on the way in.
So that confirms to me that the problem is a wheel and that it has been moved from the back to the front during the tyre change.
I just don't get why they couldn't detect it on the tyre balancer. All 4 wheels have been balanced 4 times now at 3 different places.
I can understand why people get frustrated at dealers for ongoing issues. My vibration problem is only a niggly issue but it's been going for 18 months now and it's annoying the heck out of me.

Only things left are Warped Rotors, Buckled Wheels or maybe wheel bearings?

[Binny]

I reckon it has to be a wheel. But I did notice 2 of the wheel trims hadn't even been put back on properly. Wheel alignment guy didn't look like his care factor was very high so I'm not surprised.

I have to go out tomorrow morning so I will see what its like then before I do anything. If its the same as today I'll swap the wheels front to rear one side at a time to see if I feel any difference.

[NZ XR6]

Take it back and get the tyre place to check the wheels. If there's a wheel or tyre runout issue, then they'll should see it on a balancer.

The steel wheels aren't very strong. I put a big dent in a rim when it hit a pothole on the edge of the road before I fitted the Mak wheels.

[Binny]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Take it back and get the tyre place to check the wheels. If there's a wheel or tyre runout issue, then they'll should see it on a balancer.

The steel wheels aren't very strong. I put a big dent in a rim when it hit a pothole on the edge of the road before I fitted the Mak wheels.

I did that 3 times at 3 different places. K-mart tyre and Auto, my local Ford dealer when it was serviced and Bob Jane.
Getting the new tyres fitted and balanced today is the 4th time they have been all balanced which is why I am disappointed that they haven't spotted which rim it is. Especially when the last 3 times I have explained the issue and asked them to look closely at the Rims when they are on the balancer. That's why I came to the conclusion that it must be a tyre.
I took the gamble over buying a 17inch wheel and tyre package as I didn't really have the money for that atm. I guess I was wrong. Don't really want to shell out for 16inch wheels so I will try again to narrow down which wheel it is and get them to swap the tyre over with the spare so I still have a matching set of 4 on the car. I'd love to just go out and get a nice set of 17s or 18s but it just isn't a priority.

[NZ XR6]

No, you weren't wrong. All of the MA and MB wagons in NZ came on 16" wheels. I bought a set of the 17" Ford Y-spoke wheels for my MA, and was impressed with the extra grip on smooth roads.

But on the bumpy roads that are typical outside the cities here, the extra weight and tyre width affected the steering and bump absorption.

So I went back to 16s. A tyre guy explained to me that the car really needs the sports suspension to control the extra weight of the larger wheels, and that the base models were set up for 16" wheels.

He may well be right, as my car certainly feels very well balanced on the standard wheels.

Your idea of swapping the front and back wheels one side at a time should tell you which wheel has the problem.

[rondeo]

Binny's problem with wheels: just a couple of thoughts/opinions.

In my experience meeting wheel alignment specifications is no
guarantee of stability etc. If you have zero toe-in you can see
there is potential flutter from the wheels not being able to decide which way to go when the driver is steering dead ahead. Depending on the condition of the steering linkages etc, you might get some shimmy. If I had this problem
I think I'd try increasing the toe-in to the maximum specified.

If the tyre is balanced mass-wise, it may still be the tread wanders. You can check that by jacking up the wheel and placing a stationary pointer
on a tread line.

I don't bother with front wheel alignments, I just adjust according to
tyre wear indications, ie outside wear = too much toe-in and vice versa.
I rotate the front/rear tyres at oil changes. Works for me.

Adjusting toe is easy. I use a white correction marker to mark the original position on the tie-rod thread and make certain to turn each side exactly the same amount. I have a way of measuring toe, but you can't go very far wrong with one quarter turns, provide you have gone the right way

I wouldn't be too hard on those tyre guys, after all, look what a *****
of a job they have! Then again, if the were more obsessive and used their brains maybe they could help themselves?! Not sure.

[rondeo]

Toe-in may be between plus 0.55 degrees and minus o.15 degrees,
according to the book.

[Binny]

Thanks for your suggestions Rondeo.
After I fixed the 2 wheel trims that weren't fitted properly it has gone back to pretty well how it has always been. The wheel trims were obviously affecting things on the way home from the tyre place. I will just have to put up with it now like I always have since I bought the car. Maybe I'm just picky. I'm the sort of person who detects a slow leak once it gets under 25psi by the feel of the car. I've never had to change a tyre by the roadside in in 23 years. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a car to drive at motorway speeds without the sunshade wobbling or hearing trim creaking from a shimmy.

RE: the toe in - Front LH was 2.7mm, RH was 1.6mm. Both were adjusted to 0.2mm. That was all that was changed in the wheel alignment. As the shimmy is the same as before I think that can be ruled out. The car has always driven perfectly straight and the tyres on it had done over 90,000km.

[NZ XR6]

You could try swapping each wheel with the spare, starting at the front.

From previous experience, it definitely sounds like a wheel runout problem. My MB with the Michelins feels dead smooth, apart from the first few kms if the car hasn't been driven for a few days.

[rondeo]

"RE: the toe in - Front LH was 2.7mm, RH was 1.6mm. Both were adjusted to 0.2mm. That was all that was changed in the wheel alignment. As the shimmy is the same as before I think that can be ruled out. The car has always driven perfectly straight and the tyres on it had done over 90,000km."

If the above is correct, expressed in mm the front toe-in at 0.2mm would now be out of 'nominal setting' specification, which is 2.4 to 0.4mm toe-in with 1.4mm the target. The Haynes manual also gives a 'tolerance range' of 3.9mm toe-in to 1.0mm toe-out. My understanding is that the wider range can be tolerated but is not normal? 0.2 is the nominal setting in degrees.

As for driving straight, toe-in is not a factor, rather it is the rear to front wheel alignment? Front Toe-in automatically centres the wheels to run straight ahead, but if the rear wheels point elswhere that's where you'll go.

Anyway, if your tyres aren't wearing unevenly inside or outside and you
go straight ahead there's not much to worry about.

I wouldn't put up with any shimmy at all though.