Cleveland Into EA

eav8 · 03-10-2005, 01:53 AM

Curious will a cleveland fit into a ea engine bay without major tower mods etc?

Racecraft · 03-10-2005, 07:17 AM

yes, it fits

Rmyers · 03-10-2005, 07:23 AM

I'm with the opinion that a boss will fit aswell :P Most will say i'm dreaming tho :/

Key · 03-10-2005, 07:47 AM

Would it need an engineers certificate?
Two reasons maybe, EAs didn't have a V8 and emissions?

Rmyers · 03-10-2005, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key

Would it need an engineers certificate?
Two reasons maybe, EAs didn't have a V8 and emissions?

Sure would!

eav8 · 03-10-2005, 10:35 AM

thanks guys. will be running straight gas to get around emissions issues. Should have no problems with V8 into ea as others have retrofitted EB engines (V8) and had them passed and I am just going to be using a 302c (worked) so engine capacity is the same. Will be mated to T5. Was going to put combo into XB coupe project but have decided to abandon project as I could not really do it the justice it deserves. Coupe (rolling shell)is now on the market. Needs complete rebuild but a worthwile toy

Rmyers · 03-10-2005, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eav8

thanks guys. will be running straight gas to get around emissions issues

Your still gunna need to take an emmisions test tho, any car post 86 hasto pass ADR37 regardless if it's gas or petrol (only deisel's are exempt). Hopefully you shouldn't have to much trouble, just hopeing your not under the impression that because it's on gas you wont need to take the test...

XA-Coupe · 03-10-2005, 06:15 PM

I think it's great that you are giving it a try but I think the weight of the clevo will be your downfall. That and I think there is some obscure rule about post 86 cars that affects clevelands. I have heard about late XFs being very hard ( impossible ) to rego with a cleveland even on gas.
I hope I am wrong though !

RavenLS1 · 03-10-2005, 06:19 PM

the concept EA GT came with a clevo,I think.

Rmyers · 03-10-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSIWGN

the concept EA GT came with a clevo,I think.

I don't think it was a clevo....

RavenLS1 · 03-10-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyers

I don't think it was a clevo....

it was a 351 of some sort i know that cos i got a pic of it and its got EA 351 plates on it.

K_Man · 03-10-2005, 06:32 PM

(Off topic) The EA GT was a worked 351 Windsor if i remember right.

XA-Coupe · 03-10-2005, 06:35 PM

You remember right. It was a '51 Wheezer.

montyv8 · 03-10-2005, 06:50 PM

i think the problem will be, authorities dont like cars having engines in them that are older than the car....
other way round is fine.

i.e, '83 engine in '88 car = bad, '99 engine in '88 car = good

eav8 · 03-10-2005, 07:20 PM

will look into engineer's recommendation before I take on the job just to be safe.
Thanks guys

Racecraft · 03-10-2005, 07:21 PM

what state are you in?

ilsautomotive · 03-10-2005, 07:24 PM

I have heard that if putting in a later model engine, one has to meet the emissions standards of the donor car. So an E series with an AU motor must meet AU emissions.

eav8 · 04-10-2005, 03:31 PM

am in QLD if that helps with anybody knowing regs for such a swap

megsy · 04-10-2005, 03:35 PM

so that would mean my 351 winsor thats sitting in the shed could theoretically go to good use, although i see a LOT of problem in putting it in, ie the 4.0 is injected.

steven95falc · 04-10-2005, 04:26 PM

it will dude a guy in one of the ford performance mags did it bout 2-5 issues ago thats all i know hope it helps

ScoopED · 04-10-2005, 08:33 PM

Both Clevo and Windsor 351's will fit in an EA engine bay. Clevo is a tighter fit than the windsor, which virtually drops in without a hassle at all.

It is easier to start with a EB as some of these came out with V8's anyway.
Electronics wise, it is not a simple swap.

If you have the opportunity, strat with a V8 Falcon, then drop the larger 351 in as you will not have to change the cross memeber or any of the wiring.

As far as I have been told, the swapped engine must meet the emissions regulations of the cars year of manufacture. An engine which is newer than the car is looked upon far less critically than one that is older.

Exhaust manifolds MUST be modified for either of these engines to fit.

For a proper swap, count on at the very least, $10,000 not inclusive of the cost of the car.

Take a look at my "keeping you updated, 5.8L......" Thread for more info.

Mike

eav8 · 04-10-2005, 09:22 PM

$10,000 I don't quite see where you get that figure from....Especially undertaking most of the work myself...please explain costing for me.

ScoopED · 05-10-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eav8

$10,000 I don't quite see where you get that figure from....Especially undertaking most of the work myself...please explain costing for me.

Well, yes, you could save a fair amount of cash is you were doing most of the work yourself.

But here is a bit of a breakdown for you...... the prices I am quoting are not 'rock bottom', just a general guide. I'm sure you could get things for a lot cheaper if you hunted around enough and are ok with using many second hand parts.

* Upgraded fuel pump $200
* Adjustabe fuel pressure regulator $120
* TFI Distributor to suit 351W (no they are not the same as 5.0L) $150
* Timing cover $100
* Water pump $70
* Thermo Fans $150
* V8 Radiator $300
* Accessory brackets $150
* Altenator $200
* Harmonic balancer $100
* A half decent sump (that will fit) $500
* V8 Crossmember $150
* Half decent exhaust system including high flow cats and extractors $2000
* Intake manifold $700 (or more)
* Wiring loom $300
* Fuel injectors $200
* MAF $40
* Gearbox that will cop the extra torque $2500
* Uprated front suspension $400
* ECU $100

Theres $8430.00 for you, then you need to buy a decent reliable engine and there is also a WHOLE PILE of other little annoying things (thermostat housing, dipstick, wire, ignition leads, the list goes on).
And there is every chance that you will have to pay somebody to do a bit of work for you. Unless of course you are fortunate enough to have the skills and tools to do everything yourself.

The only things I have payed labour on are radiator (didnt have time to do it myself), gearbox, intake manifold and exhaust. So its not as though I have been forking over $50/hr for the past 9 months or anything, my expense is mostly in parts.

The above is for a windsor conversion. A Clevo conversion would be slightly more expensive.

Mike

eav8 · 05-10-2005, 10:57 AM

scoopED I am actually looking at installing a carby fed (or LPG) 302 cleveland..not 351 windsor..I already have rebuilt engine (its been tickled a bit...hotter cam..torquer manifold..750 double pumper...modified heads..upped ignition). Reason for looking at this swap is that I currently have a tired 3.9cfi6cyl4spdautoEA and have v8 sitting around waiting to be used.
I would not really contemplate switching to EFI unles I stumbled across the parts cheap (lol).
My thoughts are to fit this engine and T5 into EA utilising (as suggested) EB V8 K frame and modified sump (if required)....Upgrade front suspension to handle extra weight...Re-inforce front end chassis if required (I can do all my own welding etc to required standard)....Will convert to straight gas if required to obtain required emissions levels.
I understand that oil pressure senders etc will have to be changed/ interfaced into factory setup.
If this all works out then I will eventually change rear end for Disc brake LSD 9".

I have spoken to an approved engineer and have been told there should be no problems doing swap this way, as long as I meet emissions requirements for the year of vehicle then it will all be good.

I thank all for information and assistance and will let you all know how I get on. Have to get all parts before I start as car is my daily driver and don't want it off the road for more than 2 weeks.

Here's a pick of the image..sorry about resolution is old cheap camera.

Rmyers · 05-10-2005, 11:49 AM

Good luck with it mate!

montyv8 · 05-10-2005, 11:52 AM

if you're going to go through all the work of installing that clevo, i'd suggest dropping in a 351 crank and rods ;)

as a well sorted 4.0 will keep up with a reasonable 302

eav8 · 05-10-2005, 01:09 PM

I am contemplating that also thanks montyv8. I have a set of rods but don't have the cash just yet to pick up a decent crank...Also considering using 302c rods with different pistons...lots of options. Just trying to get my game plan sorted before I dive in. Also if interested I currently have a coupe (XBGS) shell for sale on ebay.

ScoopED · 05-10-2005, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eav8

scoopED I am actually looking at installing a carby fed (or LPG) 302 cleveland..not 351 windsor..I already have rebuilt engine (its been tickled a bit...hotter cam..torquer manifold..750 double pumper...modified heads..upped ignition). Reason for looking at this swap is that I currently have a tired 3.9cfi6cyl4spdautoEA and have v8 sitting around waiting to be used.
I would not really contemplate switching to EFI unles I stumbled across the parts cheap (lol).
My thoughts are to fit this engine and T5 into EA utilising (as suggested) EB V8 K frame and modified sump (if required)....Upgrade front suspension to handle extra weight...Re-inforce front end chassis if required (I can do all my own welding etc to required standard)....Will convert to straight gas if required to obtain required emissions levels.
I understand that oil pressure senders etc will have to be changed/ interfaced into factory setup.
If this all works out then I will eventually change rear end for Disc brake LSD 9".

I have spoken to an approved engineer and have been told there should be no problems doing swap this way, as long as I meet emissions requirements for the year of vehicle then it will all be good.

I thank all for information and assistance and will let you all know how I get on. Have to get all parts before I start as car is my daily driver and don't want it off the road for more than 2 weeks.

Here's a pick of the image..sorry about resolution is old cheap camera.

Sorry mate, got my wires crossed.....

It most certainly sounds like an interesting swap. The engine sounds like a nice rig..... How will you go about mounting it to the crossmember? I'm assuming that the Windsor V8 mounts wont fit, but they might be a good starting point.

What is your plan RE: exhaust manifold?

LPG is (from what I have heard) definatly the way to pass emissions tests. Even tho by law, you wont have to run catalytic converters, it may be worth getting a pair to help you through the emissions test???

Will you be running air con? Will you be using clevo style accessory drives and brackets?

Please keep us posted, i'm very interested to hear how you go with this. It was ONE of the original plans I had for my car.

Best of luck!

Mike

LUXO_8 · 05-10-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoopED

LPG is (from what I have heard) definatly the way to pass emissions tests. Even tho by law, you wont have to run catalytic converters, it may be worth getting a pair to help you through the emissions test???

he has to run cats regardless of weather its pertol or lpg as its a post 86 car

Racecraft · 05-10-2005, 08:45 PM

I'll pull out my stash of my 351C EB photos that everyone has probably seem 100 times..

Ran a stalled C4.. modified bellhousing to accept starter motor on passenger side
Was on LPg
Had issues with the headers fouling on the steering shaft for engineering which I have since found out isn't a concern as pacemaker make a similiar header that goes either side of the lower sterring shaft like my home made ones did.
Mounted the engine 50mm back off the factory mounts to allow for the difference in length of the C4 and the BTR.. Saved getting a custom length tailshaft
Was messing around with brackets etc to use a mix and match set of Clevo, Eseries pulleys with no A/C

I still have it tucked away in the corner... maybe one day but nowdays the turbo sixes would smoke it allday :(