Ford Fiesta Sales

[Imolator]

Why doesn't the Fiesta sell better than it does?

October sales figures show only 379 sales in October, and just 313 in September. Compare that to Yaris sales of 2858 in October and 2043 for September. August was a good month for Fiesta with 726 sales, looks like it only sells well when ford cuts the prices.

Even the piece of crap Korean made Holden Barina with a horrible crash test rating of only 2 out of 5 sold 1074 in October.

Most small car buyers must be idiots based on the sales figures.

[Teki04]

Just to name a few things;

*Price* - high advertised starting price (sure, it includes a/c...)
*Advertising* - when was the last time you saw the Fiesta on the TV?
*Entry point* - I mentioned this once and got blasted, but what about a 1.4L? (EDIT - come to think about it, I was blasted about it. But for one second just think. The Yaris has a 1.3L, as does the Jazz. Seems Ford are aiming for the 'premium' small hatch price)
*Waiting lists* - are people prepared to wait? My Cousin was told about 4-6 weeks for a Fiesta Zetec
*It's a Ford* :

[Imolator]

Yes a lot of what you say is just what I've been thinking. Maybe ford are just happy to have it trickle along sales wise. I agree a smaller motor as a price point starter might be a good thing sales wise, I dont know if they could do it but the 1.4l turbo diesel is very popular in Europe and achieves very good fuel economy.

But as you say maybe they are just after the premium end of the market, but if that is their goal I think they have failed as the Ghia just doesn't sell well at all.

And yes waiting lists are a sales killer, I had to wait nearly 8 weeks for mine and it was only a 5 door Lx. God nows how long you would wait if you optioned an LX with abs in manual gise as it has to be built to spec in Germany. I tried to Order mine that way only to be told that they couldn't give me an eta and that it would be months rather than weeks. :

[Sonia]

Lets just get to the point.... most of the small car market is taken up by females.
Most females are clueless.... they look for things like, "is it cute", "how many cup holders does it have", "does it come in pink", etc.
The Yaris and Jazz accomodate for alot of this criteria.
Also, you must remember a lot of people think the Fiesta is just the new Festiva. We all know what a "great" car that was....

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Why doesn't the Fiesta sell better than it does?

October sales figures show only 379 sales in October, and just 313 in September. Compare that to Yaris sales of 2858 in October and 2043 for September. August was a good month for Fiesta with 726 sales, looks like it only sells well when ford cuts the prices.

Even the piece of crap Korean made Holden Barina with a horrible crash test rating of only 2 out of 5 sold 1074 in October.

Most small car buyers must be idiots based on the sales figures.

Its pretty simple in regards to the Yaris. 80 - 85% of it is fleet.

So lets see... 2858 - 80% = 572. Same goes for Corolla, Camry, Falcon, Commodore.

Toyota actually isn't such a big selling car manufacturer in terms of private buyers. Its vast majority of sales belong to fleets. Eliminate them and the amount of normal people who actually buy them with their own money is quite low.

Ford has alot of this too, but not with cars like Fiesta & Focus.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its pretty simple in regards to the Yaris. 80 - 85% of it is fleet.

So lets see... 2858 - 80% = 572. Same goes for Corolla, Camry, Falcon, Commodore.

Toyota actually isn't such a big selling car manufacturer in terms of private buyers. Its vast majority of sales belong to fleets. Eliminate them and the amount of normal people who actually buy them with their own money is quite low.

Ford has alot of this too, but not with cars like Fiesta & Focus.

I know that toyota has lots of fleets sales of Corolla and Camry, but wasn't aware of the Yaris being a big fleet seller. Are you sure about this?

[Teki04]

Steffo - where are those stats coming from? Majority of Yaris I see are private owners. Ever been to Market City? Damn - they are everywhere!

*EDIT*

Seems you and Photn are incorrect.

This year the Yaris/Echo stats are;

15,695 total sales (July YTD)
11,495 private sales (July YTD)

Which means that private buyers account for 73.2% of Yaris/Echo sales.

[photn]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I know that toyota has lots of fleets sales of Corolla and Camry, but wasn't aware of the Yaris being a big fleet seller. Are you sure about this?

yahuh i see ALOT of yaris's in the city as a fleet vehicle....even my company has about 120 all over NSW that i know of.. there are alot of them out.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I know that toyota has lots of fleets sales of Corolla and Camry, but wasn't aware of the Yaris being a big fleet seller. Are you sure about this?

Yep. Ever seen those Blood-Bank cars, the Echo's, and now Yaris? Then you have alot of those cosmetic companies with female mobile sales reps, driving, surprise, a Yaris. Toyota lives off fleet sales, period.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yep. Ever seen those Blood-Bank cars, the Echo's, and now Yaris? Then you have alot of those cosmetic companies with female mobile sales reps, driving, surprise, a Yaris. Toyota lives off fleet sales, period.

Please refer to my above post.

To add to my above post too.

The Toyota Corolla, which is overall the country's second biggest seller, sells mainly (60 per cent) to private buyers.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yep. Ever seen those Blood-Bank cars, the Echo's, and now Yaris? Then you have alot of those cosmetic companies with female mobile sales reps, driving, surprise, a Yaris. Toyota lives off fleet sales, period.

Ok, you learn something new every day. Cant say I see any here in Wollongong, but obviously it would be very interesting to see the actual breakdown of sales fleet versus private.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Ok, you learn something new every day. Cant say I see any here in Wollongong, but obviously it would be very interesting to see the actual breakdown of sales fleet versus private.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=19729

That should answer your question!

Interesting to see the Focus is Ford's number 1 retail performer.

[photn]

umm companise that use yaris as fleet...
RTA
CHUB
SNP
douglas Pathology
Blood bank
Domino'z
PIZZA Hut
Kone
Thrifty
MULTIPLE car leasing companies
Multiple car rental companies

just to name a few off the top of my head

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Just to name a few things;

*Price* - high advertised starting price (sure, it includes a/c...)
*Advertising* - when was the last time you saw the Fiesta on the TV?
*Entry point* - I mentioned this once and got blasted, but what about a 1.4L? (EDIT - come to think about it, I was blasted about it. But for one second just think. The Yaris has a 1.3L, as does the Jazz. Seems Ford are aiming for the 'premium' small hatch price)
*Waiting lists* - are people prepared to wait? My Cousin was told about 4-6 weeks for a Fiesta Zetec
*It's a Ford* :

Lets just compare it to the Fiesta's competitors, its real competitors...

Price -
Ford Fiesta LX 3-dr Manual = $15,990
Volkswagen Polo Club 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Renault Clio Campus 5-dr Manual = $18,990
Peugeot 206 XR 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Citroen C3 SX 5-dr Manual = $17,990

So the Fiesta is the cheapest, with a 74kW 1.6L engine. The others are all 1.4s. 59kW in the VW, 72kW in the Clio, 55kW in the 206 and C3. The Renault's 1.4 is decently powerful, the VW's justifies its lack of power with sub 5L/100km fuel economy... the Citroen/Peugeot... well.

Advertising -
Can't remember the last time I've seen an add for any of the others either.

Entry Point -
Fiesta is cheapest in its class. With the more powerful, biggest engine. And ABS and such which some (Polo Club for example) don't feature. And yes it is a 'premium,' small hatch. Its not a piece of garbage moving fridge like the Yaris, Echo, Barina etc. Ford has the Mazda 2 to compete with those things.

Waiting Lists -
You have to wait for the others too.

As for its just a Ford. So what? Does that make it bad? Your RSC182 is just a Renault. May not mean as much here, but go say that to someone in Europe and they'll nod in agreement. Its nothing special. Its no Ferrari. But that doesn't make it bad, does it?

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Teki04

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=19729

That should answer your question!

Interesting to see the Focus is Ford's number 1 retail performer.

Interesing article, pity it didn't give an numbers breakdown of private vs fleet for more models. I dont trust the figures on the Yaris as I think they are quoting total sales not private sales alone. As the yaris gets 2300 give or take a bit of sles per month. If those figures are correct then Yaris private sales must be running 90% or so.

[photn]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Lets just compare it to the Fiesta's competitors, its real competitors...

Price -
Ford Fiesta LX 3-dr Manual = $15,990
Volkswagen Polo Club 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Renault Clio Campus 5-dr Manual = $18,990
Peugeot 206 XR 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Citroen C3 SX 5-dr Manual = $17,990

So the Fiesta is the cheapest, with a 74kW 1.6L engine. The others are all 1.4s. 59kW in the VW, 72kW in the Clio, 55kW in the 206 and C3. The Renault's 1.4 is decently powerful, the VW's justifies its lack of power with sub 5L/100km fuel economy... the Citroen/Peugeot... well.

Advertising -
Can't remember the last time I've seen an add for any of the others either.

Entry Point -
Fiesta is cheapest in its class. With the more powerful, biggest engine. And ABS and such which some (Polo Club for example) don't feature. And yes it is a 'premium,' small hatch. Its not a piece of garbage moving fridge like the Yaris, Echo, Barina etc. Ford has the Mazda 2 to compete with those things.

Waiting Lists -
You have to wait for the others too.

As for its just a Ford. So what? Does that make it bad? Your RSC182 is just a Renault. May not mean as much here, but go say that to someone in Europe and they'll nod in agreement. Its nothing special. Its no Ferrari. But that doesn't make it bad, does it?

good comparo.....sum intersting facts there.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Teki04

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=19729

That should answer your question!

Interesting to see the Focus is Ford's number 1 retail performer.

If you're going to try to back your argument with an article for 'hard factual evidence,' try using a more credible source then drive.

To quote another member from a thread in the pub (forgot who and I'm not scrolling around now...)

'Is that true, or did you read it in the Herald?'

[Steffo]

Oh, and go to an ex-Government auction every now and then. They're DOMINATED by Toyotas. Yaris, Corolla, Camry all fill the auction yards.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Interesing article, pity it didn't give an numbers breakdown of private vs fleet for more models. I dont trust the figures on the Yaris as I think they are quoting total sales not private sales alone. As the yaris gets 2300 give or take a bit of sles per month. If those figures are correct then Yaris private sales must be running 90% or so.

From above

Originally Posted by Teki04

This year the Yaris/Echo stats are;

15,695 total sales (July YTD)
11,495 private sales (July YTD)

Which means that private buyers account for 73.2% of Yaris/Echo sales.

Originally Posted by Steffo

Lets just compare it to the Fiesta's competitors, its real competitors...

Price -
Ford Fiesta LX 3-dr Manual = $15,990
Volkswagen Polo Club 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Renault Clio Campus 5-dr Manual = $18,990
Peugeot 206 XR 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Citroen C3 SX 5-dr Manual = $17,990

So the Fiesta is the cheapest, with a 74kW 1.6L engine. The others are all 1.4s. 59kW in the VW, 72kW in the Clio, 55kW in the 206 and C3. The Renault's 1.4 is decently powerful, the VW's justifies its lack of power with sub 5L/100km fuel economy... the Citroen/Peugeot... well.

Advertising -
Can't remember the last time I've seen an add for any of the others either.

Entry Point -
Fiesta is cheapest in its class. With the more powerful, biggest engine. And ABS and such which some (Polo Club for example) don't feature. And yes it is a 'premium,' small hatch. Its not a piece of garbage moving fridge like the Yaris, Echo, Barina etc. Ford has the Mazda 2 to compete with those things.

Waiting Lists -
You have to wait for the others too.

As for its just a Ford. So what? Does that make it bad? Your RSC182 is just a Renault. May not mean as much here, but go say that to someone in Europe and they'll nod in agreement. Its nothing special. Its no Ferrari. But that doesn't make it bad, does it?

Flippin hell. I was joking about it being a Ford - but yes, Sarcasm doesn't come out on the net well. It was a joke. Obviously the Ford is the class leader. But, how many times I've told people I want a Fiesta ST only to be told "It's a Ford. Why would you want that?". I'm educated - I know they're good. No need to convince me!

HAHA - you compared the Fiesta to the oldest cars on the market. Good one! Sure, they have been updated, but they aren't the newest crop on the market like the Fiesta is (well, LOCALLY)

And, why is the Mazda2 crap and the Fiesta isn't? So, your telling me the Fiesta isn't a small econobox? It doesn't compete with the Barina, Yaris, Mazda2 and others? Considering the price and market they are after, I'm sure it does.

Oh, and the Clio Campus is now $16,990 Oh, and to compare based on engine size is a little disappointing. Girls (Females) are the target market - they want features and safety.

[Imolator]

Using Vfacts Sales figures the Yaris sold 15391 ytd in the period covered by the Article (July ytd) so using quick maths would give about 77% private sales which is still overwhelmingly in the favour of it being mainly bought by private buyers.

You can look it up here if your bothered but you will have to login to get permission.

http://www.automotivepersonnel.com.au/news/archives.php

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Steffo

To quote another member from a thread in the pub (forgot who and I'm not scrolling around now...)

'Is that true, or did you read it in the Herald?'

No, I read drive.com.au regularly. Do a google search in Australia on Yaris sales and it was one of the first things to come up! How interesting that it related to this thread :


Now, I've said what I want to say. Time to head out with mates.

By y'all! I'll be back later after the pot has once again boiled.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Teki04

From above





Flippin hell. I was joking about it being a Ford - but yes, Sarcasm doesn't come out on the net well. It was a joke. Obviously the Ford is the class leader. But, how many times I've told people I want a Fiesta ST only to be told "It's a Ford. Why would you want that?". I'm educated - I know they're good. No need to convince me!

HAHA - you compared the Fiesta to the oldest cars on the market. Good one! Sure, they have been updated, but they aren't the newest crop on the market like the Fiesta is (well, LOCALLY)

And, why is the Mazda2 crap and the Fiesta isn't? So, your telling me the Fiesta isn't a small econobox? It doesn't compete with the Barina, Yaris, Mazda2 and others? Considering the price and market they are after, I'm sure it does.

Oh, and the Clio Campus is now $16,990 Oh, and to compare based on engine size is a little disappointing. Girls (Females) are the target market - they want features and safety.

I agree and knew you were joking, even wheels when they first did their group test of the fiesta vs its peers stated that is was best in class, but only if you had no predujices to the blue oval badge. Hence they new that there might be some badge predudice.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Flippin hell. I was joking about it being a Ford - but yes, Sarcasm doesn't come out on the net well. It was a joke. Obviously the Ford is the class leader. But, how many times I've told people I want a Fiesta ST only to be told "It's a Ford. Why would you want that?". I'm educated - I know they're good. No need to convince me!

HAHA - you compared the Fiesta to the oldest cars on the market. Good one! Sure, they have been updated, but they aren't the newest crop on the market like the Fiesta is (well, LOCALLY)

And, why is the Mazda2 crap and the Fiesta isn't? So, your telling me the Fiesta isn't a small econobox? It doesn't compete with the Barina, Yaris, Mazda2 and others? Considering the price and market they are after, I'm sure it does.

Oh, and the Clio Campus is now $16,990 Oh, and to compare based on engine size is a little disappointing. Girls (Females) are the target market - they want features and safety.

The oldest cars on the market? Ok. They're all as old as the Mk6 Fiesta. The Polo is actually newer, since its update brought around mechanical changes etc that the other's haven't had. But it makes no difference. You could compare the older generation Polo ('95 - '99 then facelifted '00 - '02) and it would still be a better car then the rest of them. But that's comparing a manufacturer that leads the world in quality to one that leads the world in cheap pricing (Ford), and a few obscure makes from France.

The Mazda 2 is dynamically inferior to the Fiesta, much to do with the small-van like body. It has an inferior engine and transmission. Plus, it has the image to go with it to target the cheap econobox market which the Fiesta doesn't. The Mazda 2 is seen as a newer 121. The Fiesta is... well, a new car (here).

As for 72% of Yaris sales being private buyers. That's very funny. You can go on believeing it if you please. Just remember, it doesn't have to be purchased by a company fleet manager to be a company car. You know my mate Clio1.6 off your forum who you met at the KK run, along with myself? His dad has had company cars from IBM for some time, which as far as anyone knows, are his. He goes to the car yard, he orders what it is, it goes down as being done by him all on his name.... payed for by IBM. Surveyers would count that as a private sale though, as it was done in the name of a private individual.

And don't backpedal saying your comment about it being just a Ford was a joke. If it really was you'd have made it look like one, and it sure as hell did not.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its pretty simple in regards to the Yaris. 80 - 85% of it is fleet.

So lets see... 2858 - 80% = 572. Same goes for Corolla, Camry, Falcon, Commodore.

Toyota actually isn't such a big selling car manufacturer in terms of private buyers. Its vast majority of sales belong to fleets. Eliminate them and the amount of normal people who actually buy them with their own money is quite low.

Ford has alot of this too, but not with cars like Fiesta & Focus.

I hate it when people pull stats out of their ***.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The oldest cars on the market? Ok. They're all as old as the Mk6 Fiesta. The Polo is actually newer, since its update brought around mechanical changes etc that the other's haven't had. But it makes no difference. You could compare the older generation Polo ('95 - '99 then facelifted '00 - '02) and it would still be a better car then the rest of them. But that's comparing a manufacturer that leads the world in quality to one that leads the world in cheap pricing (Ford), and a few obscure makes from France.

The Mazda 2 is dynamically inferior to the Fiesta, much to do with the small-van like body. It has an inferior engine and transmission. Plus, it has the image to go with it to target the cheap econobox market which the Fiesta doesn't. The Mazda 2 is seen as a newer 121. The Fiesta is... well, a new car (here).

As for 72% of Yaris sales being private buyers. That's very funny. You can go on believeing it if you please. Just remember, it doesn't have to be purchased by a company fleet manager to be a company car. You know my mate Clio1.6 off your forum who you met at the KK run, along with myself? His dad has had company cars from IBM for some time, which as far as anyone knows, are his. He goes to the car yard, he orders what it is, it goes down as being done by him all on his name.... payed for by IBM. Surveyers would count that as a private sale though, as it was done in the name of a private individual.

And don't backpedal saying your comment about it being just a Ford was a joke. If it really was you'd have made it look like one, and it sure as hell did not.

Check my previous post, and look up the vfacts figures for yourself and then do the math against the article which rated the yaris as one of the best private sellers. Unless of course you would rather remain opinionated and uniformed.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Check my previous post, and look up the vfacts figures for yourself and then do the math against the article which rated the yaris as one of the best private sellers. Unless of course you would rather remain opinionated and uniformed.

Read the last paragraph of my last post. Then go talk to some fleet managers. And managers about companies that give you a vehicle choice (Lancer, Corolla, Pulsar, for example) and then let you go to the dealership and make the choice of colour, trims etc yourself and sign for it yourself, much like in my previous post.

Opinionated I may be, no doubts there. But uninformed? Far from it.

[Ives]

IMO not many people buying small cars care about excellent dynamics, chassis, handling, feel. Therefore Fiesta isnt selling as well as the others.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by HyperKid

IMO not many people buying small cars care about excellent dynamics, chassis, handling, feel. Therefore Fiesta isnt selling as well as the others.

You're not wrong. Most joe-average car buyers, in any class buy based on how it looks, how cheap it is and how cheap they think its going to be to maintain. This is the sole reason companies like Hyundai, Kia, Proton etc can even make a sale.

[photn]

Originally Posted by HyperKid

IMO not many people buying small cars care about excellent dynamics, chassis, handling, feel. Therefore Fiesta isnt selling as well as the others.

true alot of people care about fuel effiency and a-b type cars. basically daily Drivers! someting they can use to get from place to place.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Read the last paragraph of my last post. Then go talk to some fleet managers. And managers about companies that give you a vehicle choice (Lancer, Corolla, Pulsar, for example) and then let you go to the dealership and make the choice of colour, trims etc yourself and sign for it yourself, much like in my previous post.

Opinionated I may be, no doubts there. But uninformed? Far from it.

I here what you are saying but its based on your observations which might not be repeated everywhere else. Using ones own experience to base broad assumptions on is just bad science. Now we do have totally accurate figures for total sales of the yaris from Vfacts, and the article that listed the number of private sales for the yaris in that period which leads to the given 77%.

Now given the hard facts and you opinion and subjective experience I now which one I will be forced to believe. And no offence steffo but unless you can come up with some other article with a more accurate breakdown of fleet sales than those from drive than what you are saying just has no merit.