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#1 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Goomeri, Southern QLD
Posts: 303
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Curious will a cleveland fit into a ea engine bay without major tower mods etc?
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#2 | ||
they call me Tibbo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,163
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yes, it fits
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#3 | ||
Does Steve have a car?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,566
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I'm with the opinion that a boss will fit aswell :P Most will say i'm dreaming tho :/
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AKA Mr Silver Chasing reliability.... ![]() "When Chuck Norris jumps into water, he does not get wet, the water gets Chuck Norris..."
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#4 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vic
Posts: 79
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Would it need an engineers certificate?
Two reasons maybe, EAs didn't have a V8 and emissions? |
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#5 | |||
Does Steve have a car?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
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AKA Mr Silver Chasing reliability.... ![]() "When Chuck Norris jumps into water, he does not get wet, the water gets Chuck Norris..."
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#6 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Goomeri, Southern QLD
Posts: 303
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thanks guys. will be running straight gas to get around emissions issues. Should have no problems with V8 into ea as others have retrofitted EB engines (V8) and had them passed and I am just going to be using a 302c (worked) so engine capacity is the same. Will be mated to T5. Was going to put combo into XB coupe project but have decided to abandon project as I could not really do it the justice it deserves. Coupe (rolling shell)is now on the market. Needs complete rebuild but a worthwile toy
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#7 | |||
Does Steve have a car?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
__________________
AKA Mr Silver Chasing reliability.... ![]() "When Chuck Norris jumps into water, he does not get wet, the water gets Chuck Norris..."
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,644
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I think it's great that you are giving it a try but I think the weight of the clevo will be your downfall. That and I think there is some obscure rule about post 86 cars that affects clevelands. I have heard about late XFs being very hard ( impossible ) to rego with a cleveland even on gas.
I hope I am wrong though ! |
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,419
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the concept EA GT came with a clevo,I think.
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#10 | |||
Does Steve have a car?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
__________________
AKA Mr Silver Chasing reliability.... ![]() "When Chuck Norris jumps into water, he does not get wet, the water gets Chuck Norris..."
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#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,419
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Quote:
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#12 | ||
Whoa, this is heavy!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Eastern Melbourne
Posts: 466
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(Off topic) The EA GT was a worked 351 Windsor if i remember right.
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Liquid Silver 2002 AU III Fairmont wagon Le Mans Red 1990 SA Capri Turbo
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#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,644
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You remember right. It was a '51 Wheezer.
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#14 | ||
Turbo Dinosaur FTMFW
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SA
Posts: 7,834
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i think the problem will be, authorities dont like cars having engines in them that are older than the car....
other way round is fine. i.e, '83 engine in '88 car = bad, '99 engine in '88 car = good |
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#15 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Goomeri, Southern QLD
Posts: 303
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will look into engineer's recommendation before I take on the job just to be safe.
Thanks guys |
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#16 | ||
they call me Tibbo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,163
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what state are you in?
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#17 | ||
Former E-Series Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,733
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I have heard that if putting in a later model engine, one has to meet the emissions standards of the donor car. So an E series with an AU motor must meet AU emissions.
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#18 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Goomeri, Southern QLD
Posts: 303
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am in QLD if that helps with anybody knowing regs for such a swap
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#19 | ||
Undergraduate EB Operator
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albury/ Wodonga
Posts: 539
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so that would mean my 351 winsor thats sitting in the shed could theoretically go to good use, although i see a LOT of problem in putting it in, ie the 4.0 is injected.
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Simon ----------------------- 04 BA Xr6 ... now with carpark dints ![]() ----------------------- |
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#20 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: narre warren vic
Posts: 415
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it will dude a guy in one of the ford performance mags did it bout 2-5 issues ago thats all i know hope it helps
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#21 | ||
Thumbs up for fossil fuel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 455
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Both Clevo and Windsor 351's will fit in an EA engine bay. Clevo is a tighter fit than the windsor, which virtually drops in without a hassle at all.
It is easier to start with a EB as some of these came out with V8's anyway. Electronics wise, it is not a simple swap. If you have the opportunity, strat with a V8 Falcon, then drop the larger 351 in as you will not have to change the cross memeber or any of the wiring. As far as I have been told, the swapped engine must meet the emissions regulations of the cars year of manufacture. An engine which is newer than the car is looked upon far less critically than one that is older. Exhaust manifolds MUST be modified for either of these engines to fit. For a proper swap, count on at the very least, $10,000 not inclusive of the cost of the car. Take a look at my "keeping you updated, 5.8L......" Thread for more info. Mike
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God created F-trucks so that you could put their engines into E series. 1992 EB Fairmont 351cu in Windsor Roller Cam Valve Body "Shift Kitted" BTR 4spd Auto Hi Tek Headers Tri Y Twin 2.25 into Single 2.5in 17in x 8in BA XR8 Copies 235x45x17 Nankang NSII Ultra Low King springs Whiteline 30mm Swaybar Nolathane box section trailing arms Slotted DBA front rotors Yella Terra roller rockers |
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#22 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Goomeri, Southern QLD
Posts: 303
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$10,000 I don't quite see where you get that figure from....Especially undertaking most of the work myself...please explain costing for me.
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#23 | |||
Thumbs up for fossil fuel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 455
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Quote:
Well, yes, you could save a fair amount of cash is you were doing most of the work yourself. But here is a bit of a breakdown for you...... the prices I am quoting are not 'rock bottom', just a general guide. I'm sure you could get things for a lot cheaper if you hunted around enough and are ok with using many second hand parts. * Upgraded fuel pump $200 * Adjustabe fuel pressure regulator $120 * TFI Distributor to suit 351W (no they are not the same as 5.0L) $150 * Timing cover $100 * Water pump $70 * Thermo Fans $150 * V8 Radiator $300 * Accessory brackets $150 * Altenator $200 * Harmonic balancer $100 * A half decent sump (that will fit) $500 * V8 Crossmember $150 * Half decent exhaust system including high flow cats and extractors $2000 * Intake manifold $700 (or more) * Wiring loom $300 * Fuel injectors $200 * MAF $40 * Gearbox that will cop the extra torque $2500 * Uprated front suspension $400 * ECU $100 Theres $8430.00 for you, then you need to buy a decent reliable engine and there is also a WHOLE PILE of other little annoying things (thermostat housing, dipstick, wire, ignition leads, the list goes on). And there is every chance that you will have to pay somebody to do a bit of work for you. Unless of course you are fortunate enough to have the skills and tools to do everything yourself. The only things I have payed labour on are radiator (didnt have time to do it myself), gearbox, intake manifold and exhaust. So its not as though I have been forking over $50/hr for the past 9 months or anything, my expense is mostly in parts. The above is for a windsor conversion. A Clevo conversion would be slightly more expensive. Mike
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God created F-trucks so that you could put their engines into E series. 1992 EB Fairmont 351cu in Windsor Roller Cam Valve Body "Shift Kitted" BTR 4spd Auto Hi Tek Headers Tri Y Twin 2.25 into Single 2.5in 17in x 8in BA XR8 Copies 235x45x17 Nankang NSII Ultra Low King springs Whiteline 30mm Swaybar Nolathane box section trailing arms Slotted DBA front rotors Yella Terra roller rockers |
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#24 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Goomeri, Southern QLD
Posts: 303
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scoopED I am actually looking at installing a carby fed (or LPG) 302 cleveland..not 351 windsor..I already have rebuilt engine (its been tickled a bit...hotter cam..torquer manifold..750 double pumper...modified heads..upped ignition). Reason for looking at this swap is that I currently have a tired 3.9cfi6cyl4spdautoEA and have v8 sitting around waiting to be used.
I would not really contemplate switching to EFI unles I stumbled across the parts cheap (lol). My thoughts are to fit this engine and T5 into EA utilising (as suggested) EB V8 K frame and modified sump (if required)....Upgrade front suspension to handle extra weight...Re-inforce front end chassis if required (I can do all my own welding etc to required standard)....Will convert to straight gas if required to obtain required emissions levels. I understand that oil pressure senders etc will have to be changed/ interfaced into factory setup. If this all works out then I will eventually change rear end for Disc brake LSD 9". I have spoken to an approved engineer and have been told there should be no problems doing swap this way, as long as I meet emissions requirements for the year of vehicle then it will all be good. I thank all for information and assistance and will let you all know how I get on. Have to get all parts before I start as car is my daily driver and don't want it off the road for more than 2 weeks. Here's a pick of the image..sorry about resolution is old cheap camera. |
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#25 | |||
Thumbs up for fossil fuel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 455
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Quote:
It most certainly sounds like an interesting swap. The engine sounds like a nice rig..... How will you go about mounting it to the crossmember? I'm assuming that the Windsor V8 mounts wont fit, but they might be a good starting point. What is your plan RE: exhaust manifold? LPG is (from what I have heard) definatly the way to pass emissions tests. Even tho by law, you wont have to run catalytic converters, it may be worth getting a pair to help you through the emissions test??? Will you be running air con? Will you be using clevo style accessory drives and brackets? Please keep us posted, i'm very interested to hear how you go with this. It was ONE of the original plans I had for my car. Best of luck! Mike
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God created F-trucks so that you could put their engines into E series. 1992 EB Fairmont 351cu in Windsor Roller Cam Valve Body "Shift Kitted" BTR 4spd Auto Hi Tek Headers Tri Y Twin 2.25 into Single 2.5in 17in x 8in BA XR8 Copies 235x45x17 Nankang NSII Ultra Low King springs Whiteline 30mm Swaybar Nolathane box section trailing arms Slotted DBA front rotors Yella Terra roller rockers |
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#26 | |||
windsor user
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Geelong
Posts: 13,123
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#27 | ||
Does Steve have a car?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,566
|
Good luck with it mate!
__________________
AKA Mr Silver Chasing reliability.... ![]() "When Chuck Norris jumps into water, he does not get wet, the water gets Chuck Norris..."
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#28 | ||
Turbo Dinosaur FTMFW
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SA
Posts: 7,834
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if you're going to go through all the work of installing that clevo, i'd suggest dropping in a 351 crank and rods ;)
as a well sorted 4.0 will keep up with a reasonable 302 |
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#29 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Goomeri, Southern QLD
Posts: 303
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I am contemplating that also thanks montyv8. I have a set of rods but don't have the cash just yet to pick up a decent crank...Also considering using 302c rods with different pistons...lots of options. Just trying to get my game plan sorted before I dive in. Also if interested I currently have a coupe (XBGS) shell for sale on ebay.
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#30 | ||
they call me Tibbo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,163
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I'll pull out my stash of my 351C EB photos that everyone has probably seem 100 times..
Ran a stalled C4.. modified bellhousing to accept starter motor on passenger side Was on LPg Had issues with the headers fouling on the steering shaft for engineering which I have since found out isn't a concern as pacemaker make a similiar header that goes either side of the lower sterring shaft like my home made ones did. Mounted the engine 50mm back off the factory mounts to allow for the difference in length of the C4 and the BTR.. Saved getting a custom length tailshaft Was messing around with brackets etc to use a mix and match set of Clevo, Eseries pulleys with no A/C ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I still have it tucked away in the corner... maybe one day but nowdays the turbo sixes would smoke it allday :(
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