4cyl Falcon

Blem · 12-07-2011, 10:10 PM

Just read in the Adelaide Advertiser a story by journo Paul Pottinger that Ford have just released a Mondeo with a 2lt direct injection turbo four that puts out 149kw/300nm.
Direct quote states "will, in up-gunned form, go into the Falcon later this year."
Is this madness true ?

vztrt · 12-07-2011, 10:17 PM

What part are you asking is true.

A 4cyl turbo RWD Falcon will be out next year.

The power part is unknown but the 4cyl can have very reasonable figures.

vztrt · 12-07-2011, 10:23 PM

This place might be a good resource.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...light=ecoboost

**Polyal** · 12-07-2011, 10:29 PM

Oh god this is going to be like the LiLPG.

Its ok, look at the gearing the ZF gives, look at the torque the engine makes at low revs, look at how many companies now buy on either cylinder count or CO2 emissions and you will have your answer.

**janddbone** · 12-07-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blem

Just read in the Adelaide Advertiser a story by journo Paul Pottinger that Ford have just released a Mondeo with a 2lt direct injection turbo four that puts out 149kw/300nm.
Direct quote states "will, in up-gunned form, go into the Falcon later this year."
Is this madness true ?

This is in addition to the I6 and V8... Can never have to many options for buyers...

Auslandau · 12-07-2011, 10:36 PM

....... and the fact it has been discussed ad nauseum for the past 18 months.

AND with the LiLPG AND new Focus AND new Ranger AND new Terri with a diesel AND S/C and Turbo's from FPV AND with the update FG2 coming fast AND now the 4cyl with some balls will add up to the best range that FORD has had to offer .... ever!

............ so ........ problem being?

**Polyal** · 12-07-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

....... and the fact it has been discussed ad nauseum for the past 18 months.

AND with the LiLPG AND new Focus AND new Ranger AND new Terri with a diesel AND S/C and Turbo's from FPV AND with the update FG2 coming fast AND now the 4cyl with some balls will add up to the best range that FORD has had to offer .... ever!

............ so ........ problem being?

SPOT
.....
FRICKEN
....
ON!
.....

Blem · 12-07-2011, 10:39 PM

I missed the thread by Russel but I'm still dismayed at this.
Does the Mondeo also come in a rwd...

I'm going old school if this crap keeps happening.

Suppose I should just thrash my NASTY 6cyl & enjoy

Auslandau · 12-07-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blem

I missed the thread by Russel but I'm still dismayed at this.
Does the Mondeo also come in a rwd...

Nope ........

vztrt · 12-07-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blem

I missed the thread by Russel but I'm still dismayed at this.
Does the Mondeo also come in a rwd...

Why? Why does a 4cyl Falcon bother you. You don't have to buy it.

No the Mondeo will stay FWD.

**Polyal** · 12-07-2011, 10:43 PM

Whats so hard to understand?

If you dont like it, and its obviously thats its not up your alley as you own a F6, then thats ok. But for many fleets and private buyers out there it fits the bill that matters most of all, fuel consumption and with some people CO2 readings.

Falcons have been off the shopping lists for many people and companies simply because of this...its just another bullet in the revolver to get some sales back and open avenues that where lost.

We will see if in the real world it is any better, or not, it has potential thats for sure and Ford wouldnt stuff about with it if the numbers didnt stack up on paper and the prototypes didnt feedback the right results.

They are not GMH.

Blem · 12-07-2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_br_johnstone

This is in addition to the I6 and V8... Can never have to many options for buyers...

Glad to see that it's not the death of larger capacity motors.

Saturdays paper was the first I heard of it so IT WAS A SHOCK. Soo sorry.
No I will not buy one either.

Road_Warrior · 12-07-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blem

Glad to see that it's not the death of larger capacity motors.

Saturdays paper was the first I heard of it so IT WAS A SHOCK. Soo sorry.
No I will not buy one either.

Fleets will be all over the 4cyl turbo Falcon (called EcoBoost) like a 14yo boy with a playboy magazine. The reason being: fuel efficiency, low(er) tailpipe emissions of CO2, and still having the benefits of a Falcon (space, 5 star ANCAP safety, a great drive etc).

This car - theoretically - will claw back some of the Falcon's market share and make the brand and the assembly plant a more viable prospect than it is now. Gotta think of the bigger picture in all this.

Supercharged · 12-07-2011, 11:11 PM

The theory behind it is good, 4 cylinder when just cruising along and turbo power when power is needed. Forced induction increases the cubic capacity on average about 50% so it is the best of both worlds.
One of the lost sales areas is in some government and company fleets that must meet a C02 output level, by using a smaller engine the C02 can meet requirements but still have reasonable power when required, in theory it should result in sales.

Kryton · 12-07-2011, 11:18 PM

Its all good except for that fact the no P plater can drive one.

P6LTD351 · 12-07-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

Its all good except for that fact the no P plater can drive one.

Yeah but how many fleets have p-plate drivers? It may also end up being on an exemption list anyway.

Alby1 · 12-07-2011, 11:29 PM

Would companies buy them as a turbo is usually more expensive to inssure than n/a

vztrt · 12-07-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alby1

Would companies buy them as a turbo is usually more expensive to inssure than n/a

If they're high performance then it would be higher. Otherwise there shouldn't be any real difference.

Supercharged · 12-07-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

Its all good except for that fact the no P plater can drive one.

Hadn’t considered that as far as P platers were concerned. It is strange sometimes, I had the 2 x FG turbo XR6’s insured with one company with one of the drivers being just 22 and if they were a FPV F6 it was not a problem but when I went to insure the FG GS they refused to insure a supercharged V8 point blank, if they knew anything the F6 and GS are about the same for power with the F6 ever so slightly in front.

kinksta · 12-07-2011, 11:36 PM

I don't understand how people aren't excited over LiLPG and 4cyl Falcon's and Diesel Territory's.

THESE ARE GOOD TIMES FOR FORD!

Ducati888 · 12-07-2011, 11:40 PM

What about a diesel Falc? The Terri/Land Rover diesel would presumably fit straight in. Yet another option that the Euro & Japanese competition already offer, in a local package that could give a bit of an edge over the red team.

Blem · 12-07-2011, 11:54 PM

I'm only speaking as an enthusiast who thought that the 4cyl engines were going to be the ONLY option.
I don't like diesels, 4 pot screamers, or rotary's but that's me.
Not sorry so .....

vztrt · 12-07-2011, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blem

I'm only speaking as an enthusiast who thought that the 4cyl engines were going to be the ONLY option.

Might as well drop the Falcon if that were to happen.
Ford N/A wanted the ecoboost engine in all Fords. SO they got money to do it. Apparently its very capable and will surprise many.

**Elks** · 12-07-2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

............ so ........ problem being?

Ziltch, zero nothing, no problem at all.

Me, I'm a 5.0 man but that's Ok if i was looking at fleet/low fuel consumption/low emission vehicles this would be on the list. And would be hard to beat.

dave351cid · 13-07-2011, 12:19 AM

the diesel should be in the utes already.

2011G6E · 13-07-2011, 05:33 AM

No problem I can see...

Priced sharply, there will be a huge demand for this car. The hokey carbon tax will eventually be passed on to ordinary peoples fuel, despite what Juliar says, and people are already jittery about fuel prices. However, a lot of people, while liking the idea of a four cylinder car, still see them as "econo-boxes". If they could get a "normal" family car like a Falcon, they'd buy one.

Four cylinder cars have grown remarkably in size and power over the decades...you can't really laugh off a four cylinder car of "family size" now, as they have space and comfort undreamt of twenty years ago.

In 1984 I bought a 1980 VC Commodore SL four cylinder auto. It had the Starfire Four...and engine which, with the right mods (extractors, replace the carb with a Weber, etc) was a decent little powerplant. The problem was, it was a "typical four cylinder engine" of the time, and too small for the Commodore shell. Most four cylinders back then put out about 50-70kw...the Toyota 21RC in my '82 Celica, the sporty model of the range, put out only 66kw standard. They'd trimmed the weight down on the car, including fitting unique-to-the-model 13" Torana pattern wheels, but it wasn't enough to give sparkling performance. It was good, but with a little more power, it could have been great.

Use modern tech, keep the weight down a bit, and a modern four cylinder turbo engine would be perfectly OK for plenty of buyers. Get the fuel economy right and you would hammer the Commodore in the sales race...

2011G6E · 13-07-2011, 10:59 AM

Just had a thought...no, it didn't hurt too much...

The diesel falcon will be a great thing, but I wonder what is going to happen with diesel pricing? The carbon tax rubbish didn't mention diesel for "ordinary people", only unleaded petrol. Diesel is already artificially waaay more expensive than it should be, dearer than unleaded in a lot of places when it should be far cheaper. This has been discussed on four wheel drive forums lately, the worry that diesel will be sacrificed on the alter of Bob Brown to keep the Greens happy. It seems to be getting lumped in with "heavy vehicle fuel"...which is all diesel. Interstingly, no mention made of LPG either...
The fuel economy of a diesel falcon will have to be drastically higher than a petrol version for people to bother going to that model, if diesel rises further in price. We found that out with our diesel 100 series Landcruiser...good economy, but it all equalled out to no better than a normal Falcon or Commodore when you did the sums because of higher diesel prices.

There is also the matter of government departments and big fleet buyers. I would lay money on them being further restricted in what vehicles they buy. Already in Queensland government departments (except police) are instructed to purchase four cylinder cars. This will naturally spread as we are all expected to "drive less and drive smarter", and Prime Minister Brown has told us to do. The government, having to lead by example, will simply say "buy four cylinder cars" to their minions.
A large four cylinder sedan would be very attractive to them, and gives them another option besides the ubiquitous Camry that most departments are infested with. A four cylinder falcon would also allow them to look more dinky-di-support-Aussie-Car-Makers in the eyes of the voter.

I think it will sell rather well and usher in a new era for Falcon. They talked about it with the XD way back when, and got as far as considering a 2.4 liter four cylinder similar in appearance to the old 2 liter Escort/Cortina engine...but at the time any four cylinder of over 2 liters needed a lot of work done to reduce vibration and other issues like that. Mitsubishi did it quite well with the excellent 2 and 2.6 liter Sigma engines, but that was the last "big banger" four cylinders we ever saw. But what killed the XD Falcon four cylinder was simply the same thing that ruined the Commodore Four...general lack of power from the four cylinders of the time.

That's not a problem at all nowadays, so build it!!

Brazen · 13-07-2011, 11:12 AM

Right engine, wrong car.

Buyers dont want large sedans, you could make it solar powered and private buyers will walk right past it to a Forester, Captiva or Sportwagon..

And fleets? They save 10grand a pop and just opt for a Camry... or the ECOLPI which will be cheaper to run..or the Ecoboost Mondeo which is sitting 3 feet away in the same bloody showroom.

I would be more excited if they spent the money on a new body derivative for Falcon..dual cab ute, hatch, wagon etc.

Having said all that, it will depend on the pricing. $29,990 driveaway would work for people who want a sedan over a hatch/wagon/SUV.

foxtrot3 · 13-07-2011, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

....... and the fact it has been discussed ad nauseum for the past 18 months.

AND with the LiLPG AND new Focus AND new Ranger AND new Terri with a diesel AND S/C and Turbo's from FPV AND with the update FG2 coming fast AND now the 4cyl with some balls will add up to the best range that FORD has had to offer .... ever!

............ so ........ problem being?

NO WAGON, That is NO 4 cyl WAGON, NO 6 cyl WAGON, NO 6 cyl turbo WAGON and NO 8 cyl WAGON

SteveJH · 13-07-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Right engine, wrong car.

Buyers dont want large sedans, you could make it solar powered and private buyers will walk right past it to a Forester, Captiva or Sportwagon..

And fleets? They save 10grand a pop and just opt for a Camry... or the ECOLPI which will be cheaper to run..or the Ecoboost Mondeo which is sitting 3 feet away in the same bloody showroom.

I would be more excited if they spent the money on a new body derivative for Falcon..dual cab ute, hatch, wagon etc.

Having said all that, it will depend on the pricing. $29,990 driveaway would work for people who want a sedan over a hatch/wagon/SUV.

Some of the major fleets only buy diesels now anyway