Customers to decide Falcon ute future

munners · 05-07-2011, 12:06 PM

From Go Auto

Ford says customers will decide ute’s future – but its fate might already be sealed
4 July 2011
By TERRY MARTIN
AUSTRALIAN consumers will decide whether Ford would continue to offer a Falcon utility beyond the current generation, according to Ford Australia president Bob Graziano.

As the Ford Motor Co continues to keep plans for the next-generation Falcon sedan close to its chest, the likelihood of switching to a front-drive Taurus-based architecture brings into question the future of all vehicles – including the ute and Territory SUV – built off the current unique Australian-developed platform, which reaches the end of the line in 2016.

Asked in an interview with GoAuto at the Australian International Motor Show in Melbourne last Friday whether there would be a utility when Falcon enters its next generation, Mr Graziano said: “It’s really dependent on what the customers tell us that they want and need.”

Ford Australia vice-president of marketing, sales and service Beth Donovan added that customers were telling the company that they wanted and needed such a vehicle “in the sports part of the segment” but acknowledged that the imported Ranger utility was doing an excellent job in meeting broader market requirements.

In response to a question on whether sports ute sales were significant enough to keep developing the local ute into a new generation, Ms Donovan said: “The customer is going to tell us, and I think that’s the message you need to take away from it.

Left: Ford Australia president Bob Graziano. Below: Ford Ranger.

“The good news for us is, with bringing Ranger in, it gives that customer even more choice.

“Having said that, we’ve had a choice, right?, (and) we’ve just set a record on Ranger sales in June.”

The question remains as to whether Ford Australia has any room to move on Falcon ute if its parent company in Detroit decides – or has already decided – to switch to a Taurus-based platform.

On this point, Mr Graziano said “it depends on where we go in the future” but highlighted that Ford Australia was “very fortunate that we have access to global technologies” and that it was committed to the ‘One Ford’ strategy that, in part, calls for reduced platforms and powertrains.

“The engineering team was very instrumental in the Ranger development and so we are going to continue to work as part of that strategy globally to make sure we’ve got the right products in Australia based on what the Australian customers are telling us that they want and value,” he said.

Ford Motor Co’s group vice-president of design and chief creative officer J Mays told GoAuto at the Detroit motor show in January that a decision on the underpinnings of the next-generation Falcon would be made by mid-2011, so the utility’s fate might already be sealed.

Mr Mays also said at the time that Australians should not hold their breath for a continuation of a rear-drive platform but be prepared for (front-drive-based) 4WD architecture.

“I know that rear-wheel drive is very important to the Australian market,” he said.

“We’re not talking about it right now … we’re looking at it – but I wouldn’t be holding my breath for rear-wheel drive. I think the chances are it will be all-wheel drive.”

Big impact on Falcon ute and sedan.

Munners

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 12:10 PM

Come on Ford NA..work out what is happening. All this conjecture of Taurus this and that is not good for business. Ford are bringing this on themselves. They also have to realize they need to make the ute competitive with the ranger, which is going to be very hard because the ute just doesnt have the same cash thrown at it. What will happen is they will do bugger all to the ute and then go "well I guess the people have spoken".

Its going to take alot of dedication to keep the ute with the Ranger around, especially if they have sorted the ride in the ranger and taken it away from the usual kidney bashing that pickups are known for.

Smoke Pursuit · 05-07-2011, 12:11 PM

Bring back XR8 and RTV then decide on its fait..

They arent giving it a very good shot, and Bob the way you treat your customers its no suprise they don't come back!

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 12:14 PM

Would it be wrong of me to think its actually convenient to have a US guy running the show here at the moment given what could possibly occur? What aussie CEO would want to be at the helm when/if the Falcon is laid to rest?

HSVKILLA · 05-07-2011, 12:19 PM

Man this really is like the snowball rolling down the mountain getting bigger and bigger but in reverse form,and the snowball is spitting out name plates and various models all over the show

.

mr smith · 05-07-2011, 12:22 PM

Ute is next on the chopping block. There is no way it will continue when Ford have invested so much into the global T6.

mr smith · 05-07-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Would it be wrong of me to think its actually convenient to have a US guy running the show here at the moment given what could possibly occur? What aussie CEO would want to be at the held when/if the Falcon is laid to rest?

I think you are spot on. Even going back a bit, I belive Bill Osbourne left as he saw the passion of the people and didnt want to be the toe cutter.

Stazza_Brendan · 05-07-2011, 12:30 PM

Can see fords point of view in a way. They killed the wagon (which in previous bodys shared the ute chassis) and the ford ute has stuck with live axle and will cost more in any next gen body to develop a ute chassis.

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stazza_Brendan

Can see fords point of view in a way. They killed the wagon (which in previous bodys shared the ute chassis) and the ford ute has stuck with live axle and will cost more in any next gen body to develop a ute chassis.

I agree, standing back it makes fiscal sense.

But, what price do you put on history, employees jobs, suppliers etc, the chain is long. Its not up to Ford NA to overly worry about these things but they are factors and its the reason the Gov tips into out industry.

If FoA stays profitable, or even has minimal lossess and Ford NA are breaking records I cant see what the deal is. But when the poo hits the fan like now and they are not moving numbers thats when problems occur and its hard to continue investing in the model we have.

There is one savior, GWRD, but they wont say boo about it.

FPV+fteT3 · 05-07-2011, 12:44 PM

The ranger is nothing like a falcon ute. I would not buy a ranger but I do own an FPV sports ute and a BF XT work ute a ranger would not come into consideration for me it looks too much like a truck / hilux. It's a USA oriented F series wannabee vehicle where I prefer a sedan type of ute. Like many others if falcon utes are stopped team red will gain another customer.
I have owned 3 different B series utes so I have done my bit to support the brand.

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

The ranger is nothing like a falcon ute. I would not buy a ranger but I do own an FPV sports ute and a BF XT work ute a ranger would not come into consideration for me it looks too much like a truck / hilux. It's a USA oriented F series wannabee vehicle where I prefer a sedan type of ute. Like many others if falcon utes are stopped team red will gain another customer.
I have owned 3 different B series utes so I have done my bit to support the brand.

Agreed, the ute is a nicer car, although we should wait until the Ranger is full tested buy journo's/customers before writing it off; on paper its a great car.

Its like the Tezz, im sure Ford where hoping that the wagon fleets would just "jump" over. But I am yet to see that, I rarely see a tezz taxi, although paramedics/police/ambo's seem to have a few Tezz's but in small numbers. The wagon was not pretty but it got the job done, i think they under estimated its popularity in the commercial sector. I still see plenty of Telstra wagons.

But for private buyers, for a family car, the RWD Tezz is a much better proposition, FE is now "sorted" with diesel aswell although LIpLPG would be good in that.

Bucknaked · 05-07-2011, 01:02 PM

It won't be long until everything we can identify as being Australian will be gone and replaced with a very American flavour. The US are calling the shots, they are doing it to support their own industry. By having a global company with a global platform, it's their way of making their industry bigger and better, making more jobs for their country, while countries like Australia, lose everything. They will give us small part in their grand plan.

EgoFG · 05-07-2011, 01:07 PM

The trouble with US owned companies is that they are by-and-large US companies - NOT global companies.

**Mechan1k** · 05-07-2011, 01:08 PM

Such a shame ... going on the dimension figures ... the Ranger styleside ute doesn't fit a "standard" CHEP pallet in it ... the Falcon Styleside does.

Massive oversight there. Some some of us that don't really want to change the body over to a tray .. this is a pain really. It'll push potential customers away to other manufacturers at least.

GTP-814 · 05-07-2011, 01:13 PM

i think the big problem is that they are looking at FWD for a falcon future & utes dont into that category. So what happened to the mustang platform & a ute version?

SEZ213 · 05-07-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Such a shame ... going on the dimension figures ... the Ranger styleside ute doesn't fit a "standard" CHEP pallet in it ... the Falcon Styleside does.

Massive oversight there. Some some of us that don't really want to change the body over to a tray .. this is a pain really. It'll push potential customers away to other manufacturers at least.

I'll second that one. It will certainly be a shame if they decide the Ranger is enough, because clearly, it's not. The ute is a big enough vehicle for someone my size, without the 'truck' tag that goes with the Ranger... :(

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 01:18 PM

I also find it amazing how Ford is going through all this "thinking" and Holden are very very quite. They are in the same boat, big difference in how the companies are run there.

AC · 05-07-2011, 01:18 PM

I foresee that from 2016 Holden will get a bigger market share in Utes

.

Mad_Pom · 05-07-2011, 01:21 PM

This has nothing to do with America protecting American jobs and 100% to do with business.
Ute customers have a price point they are willing to spend on a Ute.
The components required to make a Ute have a cost.
The investment to develop and sign-off a Ute has a cost.
Then there is the bit that customers influence - buying them.

If you can not share the cost of development across the number of Utes sold and still turn a profit (of about 10% ROI), then it does not make fiscal sense.
Ford is a business, not a charity and needs to make money.

VFACTS for June 2011
Falcon Ute - 664 & Holden Ute - 1,227 a total of 1,891 sedan based Utes sold in Australia only (and a small volume in NZ)
Pick-up based vehicles (4x2 & 4x4) - 13,969 and all of these vehicles are imported and sold in other markets.

Customers are telling all vehicle manufactures what they prefer. If those numbers were reversed and 14,000 Utes were being sold, what do you think the vehicle manufacturers would make more off?

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 01:42 PM

There is no doubt that the trend to pick ups is there, whether its just a fad or not is another question and impossible to pick. Like every product these days people expect multi functionality.

DASH GT is right, no XR8 hurts big time.

And imagine if they pushed the RTV a little bit further. It could have capitalized on the above trend and been marketed as an alternative. Ride height + better comfort.

Perhaps it was let down by no diesel, I dont know the splits but I would say a high percentage of the pick up sales are diesel. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Road_Warrior · 05-07-2011, 01:49 PM

Better off waiting to see what effect EcoLPi has on Falcon ute sales

Mad_Pom · 05-07-2011, 01:58 PM

The problem with more complexity (V8, RTV chassis, etc) they are always niche variants and must be hard to recover the investment Ford must make involved in the additional validation.

Also I doubt that all of the sales of niche products are additional sales. There must be a percentage of them replace volume which was justifying the investment in the base product.

With such a small segment volume in Australia Ford need to sell a few combinations in large numbers, to limit investment and gain a return on investment. Chasing volume on niche products adds far too much complexity and must be hard to recover investment with profit.

Just my opinion.

flappist · 05-07-2011, 02:11 PM

Yep the best way to improve ute profitability for Ford is to bring back models that were discontinued because they did not sell very well.......

Buntz · 05-07-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Bring back XR8 and RTV then decide on its fait..

They arent giving it a very good shot, and Bob the way you treat your customers its no suprise they don't come back!

I have seen plenty of RTV's as tradesmans vehicles. More so than standard utes.

But Ford, or any car company for that matter... don't really listen to customers... they just tell us what WE need and want, and then provide that because it makes sense for shareholders.

Not improving Falcon or it's derivatives, and just watching it sink isn't an indication of customer preference in trends.... but how the manufacturer is making it appealing to the customer.

Why are Ford such ********* in this matter? And their executives soooo infuriating?

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yep the best way to improve ute profitability for Ford is to bring back models that were discontinued because they did not sell very well.......

So you expect people to just buy whats served up with no consideration to what they actually might want?

You cant offer a car half baked and hope people accept it, all the boxes need to be ticked not just a few. There is too much competition now.

phillyc · 05-07-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Better off waiting to see what effect EcoLPi has on Falcon ute sales

Exactly. E-Gas was up to 40% of the Ute sales. Will be great to see what EcoLPi can achieve.

Graziano/Donavon are also saying that the market is moving to the sports segment. So, a separate cab and chassis like we have now will go. Something similar to the traditional Falcon ute / current VE with no gap will transpire and IRS will be fitted as standard.

With an XR8 Ute they can also more accurately assess whether the sports ute segment has more legs too.

b2tf · 05-07-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Bring back XR8 and RTV then decide on its fait..

They arent giving it a very good shot, and Bob the way you treat your customers its no suprise they don't come back!

Too right. Asking customers to keep supporting what is effectively 'half a range' of viable models is a bit rich.

flappist · 05-07-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

So you expect people to just buy whats served up with no consideration to what they actually might want?

You cant offer a car half baked and hope people accept it, all the boxes need to be ticked not just a few. There is too much competition now.

I suspect they do a huge amount of research into what customers want to buy.

The problem in this thread is that they are only asking people who ACTUALLY buy new cars........

**Polyal** · 05-07-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I suspect they do a huge amount of research into what customers want to buy.

The problem in this thread is that they are only asking people who ACTUALLY buy new cars........

And market research is 100% spot on and people in focus groups always tell the truth for a free lunch.

You will need to start coming up with another line, its getting a bit old.

KBC · 05-07-2011, 03:08 PM

What a way to get rid of the Falcon name plate just as they have hinted about. First the long wheel base LTD's and Fairlanes DEAD, Falcon wagons DEAD now the ute is going to suffer the same fate. Guess what is next on the chopping block! How are you supposed to sell anything in numbers if you keep giving the customer less and less choice.

FORD is killing off these cars themselves to get rid of Falcon but are blaming dropping car sales. Well hello of course they will drop if you keep killing them off instead of asking the customer AND LISTENING how to fix the problem. Doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome isn't that a sign of stupidity! Get your head out of your **** FORD, stop telling us this is what you want, instead listen to what WE want and deliver.
What happened in the mid eighties? " lets get rid of the V8 that is what the public wants", saying it was due to fuel prices. HA guess what you lost a **** load of customers to the red side and then tried to back peddle with the EB windsor when you realised you stuffed up. Well guess what history will repeat itself again.
I will keep my current FORD cars but if they kill the falcon and go front wheel drive I will cross over for my new car to who ever has a rear wheel platform. Front wheel drive I feel is unsafe with under steer and will not put my family into one. What is the point of having a front wheel drive car with any hint of power when to get traction and combat under steer the ECU pulls out timing and fuel to lower the power level.
Come on wake up and just bloody listen.
Just my two cents worth.