Building a new house

[blueoval]

Im in the process of looking to build me my first home.

I was just wondering which project home builders you have had good experiences with?

What things should I look out for?

The builder i am thinking of building with is Rossdale Homes. Anybody built with this group?

[Feathers]

When we were looking, we found that once you put any furniture in the 2nd/3rd bedrooms they got very cramped, very fast.
Which is usually why if you go to the display centres, they rarely have furniture in them!
We ended up taking a standard design, then changing what we wanted, and asking a private builder to do it. Worked out about the same. The project home builders will charge heaps to alter their designs.

[photn]

My parents went owner builders. we started building when i was in year 9. ive been out of school for a year now and the house is only just getting near the Gyprocking stage.

its taken Ages. ive done a mojority of the electrical wiring in the ceiling. helped with the alarms, and with the hot and cold water.

let me tell you, building any home will always have Hassles. Especially if you and your other half dissagree.

[Outbackjack]

I have only ever used small contractors to biuld. Someone who's name is on the business ie Bob The Builder.... : In the long run you will not pay any more and you can talk directly with the guy building your house. This is a valuable benefit.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Feathers

When we were looking, we found that once you put any furniture in the 2nd/3rd bedrooms they got very cramped, very fast.
Which is usually why if you go to the display centres, they rarely have furniture in them!
We ended up taking a standard design, then changing what we wanted, and asking a private builder to do it. Worked out about the same. The project home builders will charge heaps to alter their designs.

Yes I am thinking of doing that Feathers. I have found a design I like from the Rossdale catalogue and while I like the overall design there are things there I plan to change. Being a building designer myself, it wont cost me anything but my time to use the design, change it all as necessary and then get a friend who is a builder to quote it.

If the costs are not much different to build then i guess i would be on top to begin with, yes?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

I have only ever used small contractors to biuld. Someone who's name is on the business ie Bob The Builder.... : In the long run you will not pay any more and you can talk directly with the guy building your house. This is a valuable benefit.

Yeah i can see the wisdom in that. Having a mate who is a builder in the industry helps and also i know he will keep me up to date with time frames etc. There is nothing than getting the run around with regard to delays etc.

I was always under the impression that it was more expensive to build with private builder than with a project home builder. But I guess the project home builders tend to have a very basic range in everything, give u the bottom dollar price and have a lot of exclusions to attract customers, then slug you for extra's after?!?!

[normxb]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

I have only ever used small contractors to build. Someone who's name is on the business ie Bob The Builder.... : In the long run you will not pay any more and you can talk directly with the guy building your house. This is a valuable benefit.

Yep , this is the way to go , when we built in Erskine Park (near Penrith NSW) in 1986 , we found the stove was a Real Cheapy , up went the price , Brown windows didn't suit the house , up went the price (shouldn't have , but they'd been left over from another job and had been delivered) , Hot Water System was too small (suited a 1 bed unit) up went the price , from the front door you could see through the Vanity area into the toilet , needed a sliding door , up went the price . Ended up costing $14,000 more . Another "trick" is to put plenty of Mirrors in the Display home , makes the place look bigger .

We signed on 2nd of October 1986 " Oh , you'll definitely be in by Christmas " Aww yeah , 25th May 1987 , we collected the key's . : and they already had the slab down when we signed .

The guy's who put the frames up had a 150mm "variance" in the hallway , the roof trusses were so much out of alignment , the tilers had to remove half the tiles so the trusses could be straightened , a real Nightmare .

That was "Valinda/Pioneer Homes"

When we bought this old house in the country (old , as in parts were built of granite in 1861 and nothing was square ) , we got a local builder to put on a 40ft X 8ft extension and new kitchen (kitchen floor was rotted out) . He was 3 weeks UNDER quoted time and $4,500 UNDER quoted price .

Like Outbackjack say's "Get the Small Local Guy , he's got his reputation to keep ".

Hope this helps
Norm

[gtfpv]

i have built a project home . my advice is get a building inspector. to look at the contract and change it before you sign . ie . increase the strength . and specify size of materials used . ie . lots of little tricks they use like going one size less on timber frame . may save them a couple of hundred dollars . and they will save 50 cents if they can . unbeknown to the owner . best to get this finalised and legally written into the contract ( at a price ) before you sign .
beware of diplay homes . i did put a deposit on one home type , and didn't feel right about it . it had mirrored robes ( free of charge ) i REALISED THAT SWINGING DOORS WOULDNT OPEN . i took hours looking in the house and then i got it . i'm 5 foot 7. i lied down on the bed in the 2nd bedroom , and my feet were hanging over the edge , they cut the beds down . also the kitchen bulk heads were optional above the coubpaord doors . be very very carefull . do it right , do it with legal backup . they can promise the world . then do as they wish whilst literally banning you from the site whilst they do it . they will tell you to f off if you dont agree with them . if it comes down to it . they will drop tools and take you to court . then you have no house to live in for months or years whilst it is battled in court. and it is YOU / VERSUS a multinational building company . either way the lawyers dont care who pay the court costs . HEED MY WARNING .
I had to fix the frame as it was being built myself at night . to my liking otherwise i would have been dissapopinted with mine . thank god i strengthened and baced the frame where necessary .

[blueoval]

very interesting experiences guys. Thanks for the warning. This is always the wise thing to do. Ask others who have gone thru the same thing and take notes to avoid issues.

I think I'll spend the time designing my own house and then get my builder mate to quote it up. At least I know what Im getting. He should look after me.

[1600GT]

another thing too.
believe it or not, but phone cabling and points are still, in 2007, NOT considered an essential service, like power and water, so more often than not, they DONT appear on basic plans. builders will do them on request, call them an 'extra', and add it to the bill.

also, when getting the phone cabling done, get a point put in EVERY room.
this may sound overboard, but trust me, its worth it.
think about it... kids (if u already have them, or will do in the future) need a computer for school work nowadays, and internet access is impossible for study material without a phone point...
its far far far more worthwhile doing at frame stage, coz the cable is less than a dollar a metre, and the extra time to put it there now when compared to getting it done in 12 months after completion...
my addidge is 'u are better off to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.'

when i do an install (i do phone system stuff all day, from little 1 line/3 phones units to 100 line/400 phones stuff), i wire them with computer cable (called CAT5E or better is CAT6) and do it in a mini 'network' configuration.
that way, u have the ultimate in flexibilty for what connects to what, and u can also set up a mini intra-network in ur home if wanted.

hope this helps some.

[1600GT]

oh BTW...
TV points are the same too.
make sure they get done.

gotta have plenty of them to watch Ambrose in NASCAR on pay tv!!

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I was always under the impression that it was more expensive to build with private builder than with a project home builder. But I guess the project home builders tend to have a very basic range in everything, give u the bottom dollar price and have a lot of exclusions to attract customers, then slug you for extra's after?!?!

No,they have too many shiney bums driving around in company cars,advertisements etc etc,all these overheads have to be allowed for...

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i have built a project home . my advice is get a building inspector. to look at the contract and change it before you sign . ie . increase the strength . and specify size of materials used . ie . lots of little tricks they use like going one size less on timber frame . may save them a couple of hundred dollars . and they will save 50 cents if they can . unbeknown to the owner . best to get this finalised and legally written into the contract ( at a price ) before you sign .
beware of diplay homes . i did put a deposit on one home type , and didn't feel right about it . it had mirrored robes ( free of charge ) i REALISED THAT SWINGING DOORS WOULDNT OPEN . i took hours looking in the house and then i got it . i'm 5 foot 7. i lied down on the bed in the 2nd bedroom , and my feet were hanging over the edge , they cut the beds down . also the kitchen bulk heads were optional above the coubpaord doors . be very very carefull . do it right , do it with legal backup . they can promise the world . then do as they wish whilst literally banning you from the site whilst they do it . they will tell you to f off if you dont agree with them . if it comes down to it . they will drop tools and take you to court . then you have no house to live in for months or years whilst it is battled in court. and it is YOU / VERSUS a multinational building company . either way the lawyers dont care who pay the court costs . HEED MY WARNING .
I had to fix the frame as it was being built myself at night . to my liking otherwise i would have been dissapopinted with mine . thank god i strengthened and baced the frame where necessary .

Don't think all builders are bad to to one experience, we have all our work inspected independently by law, if the builder above had used sub standard materials and less bracing than required the inspector would have picked it up.

The short beds are a trick used to make rooms look bigger, it's commmon in the industry.
The main thing is to read the contract fully and sort out any extras before signing up.

The best advice i can give is stay away from the huge volume builders, they pay the treadesman peanuts and it shows in the finished product.

[ratter]

I know it's out of your area, but anybody else reading, don't ever use METRICON

[Mondie]

^^ Can you elaborate, we have been talkng with them about a new place in Gippsland.

Cheers

[XRated]

I didn't realise FF.au was so full of experienced builders! I find it amusing how so many people sprout on about getting a "small guy." He has a reputation to keep? Doesn't a massive building company have a reputation to keep, too? Then again, I guess a massive company that has been established for years, builds thousands of houses annually, has regular inspections, and supervisors assigned to the house you are getting built (and who you can talk to through the whole process) must be screwing everybody over...

Do yourself a favour and actually talk to several different builders; whether they're private companies or not. It's a massive investment/milestone in your life, so it pays to take the extra effort and talk to various builders - even better if you can see some of the work they've done.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by Mondie

^^ Can you elaborate, we have been talkng with them about a new place in Gippsland.

Cheers

Pm sent with a contact no

[widget]

Originally Posted by blueoval

The builder i am thinking of building with is Rossdale Homes. Anybody built with this group?

My advice would be to go to Rossdale with the name of the house that you are looking at building and ask them to give you the locations of the same home that they have built within the area that you wish to build. (Or just out of it if none are within the area.)
Go for a drive, have a look at the houses, look at the different elevations that you have to choose from (yep these all come at a price too) and if possible talk to the owners of the homes. After all these are the people whom have already been through what you are thinking about going through, with the same builder and (if in the same area) possibly the same supervisor.

Good luck.

[normxb]

Xrated , "even better if you can see some of the work they've done".
doesn't always work , I'm afraid .

Yep , approaching the devopers is Ok , but one of my mate decided to do this and the couple of houses they were shown were excellent , but a couple of comments the owners made , made him suspicious ? So many people coming to look at our house and they did such a good deal for us ,,,, his home "wasn't a patch on the one he was shown" . After speaking to others in the sub-division with the same style home , he found they were all shown the "exact same home" and theirs didn't come up to scratch either.
Build one "you beaut job" take prospective clients for a drive "Oh look over there , see if they'll let us see the workmanship ! What a con ,

Please Note , Business with "Valinda Homes" is from personal experience , not "Heresay" . And I have had experience in the Building & Vinyl Cladding Business (Hallmark Vinyl Cladding).

Norm

[blueoval]

hmm, some good experienced suggestions there guys, I really appreciate it.

As far as the changes etc are concerned when making alterations to the plan, how much would you expect to pay if you know exactly what you want changed and hit it all at once?

[302XLS]

for all of you out there it doesn't matter which "builder" you choose, they could be the most expensive builder, as i have worked for all sorts. or they can be a simple design mass producing home builder. As for price you have to shop around and compare what everyone is offering. You'll find that many of the larger companies will give you better value for money as the have the buying power to pay less for materials and pay there trades less thus making it more affordable. you don't necessarily need to think that they will build an inferior home, but remember that most of the costs from some more pricy builders are for the fittings that they use on the internal. The biggest downfall or good job of a builder all depends on the supervisor that is building your particular home. Saying that you could be building a million dollar house or a home for $110000. once again just shop around and make sure that your builder is a registered building practitioner and that all costs are in the contract and that it has a start and finish date. There are information packs available from the government to help you out with the do's and don'ts of building. do a search on the net and get free info mailed out to you it will help.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by XRated

I didn't realise FF.au was so full of experienced builders! I find it amusing how so many people sprout on about getting a "small guy." He has a reputation to keep? Doesn't a massive building company have a reputation to keep, too? Then again, I guess a massive company that has been established for years, builds thousands of houses annually, has regular inspections, and supervisors assigned to the house you are getting built (and who you can talk to through the whole process) must be screwing everybody over...

Do yourself a favour and actually talk to several different builders; whether they're private companies or not. It's a massive investment/milestone in your life, so it pays to take the extra effort and talk to various builders - even better if you can see some of the work they've done.

YOU CAN DO PLENTY OF TALKING DOWN THE PUB MATE , WHERE IT BELONGS . IN THE BUILDING INDUSTRY CONTRACTS AND LAWYERS DO THE TALKING .

[gtfpv]

and if possible talk to the owners of the homes. After all these are the people whom have already been through what you are thinking about going through, with the same builder and (if in the same area) possibly the same supervisor.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]
Most people wont tell you the house they just built and went into heavy debt for / or are contemplating putting it on the market . is a piece of shhiit!!

[blueoval]

It all comes down to doing your homework and preparation prior to signing anything. No matter if its 'honest Joe' building company or 'Dodgy brothers' building company, I guess it would be careless to just sign anything without looking at the inclusions and exclusion and the small writing.

I plan to document all the requirements I desire sufficiently so there is no question when it comes to the building work.

[XRated]

Originally Posted by normxb

Xrated , "even better if you can see some of the work they've done". doesn't always work , I'm afraid

True. But at least if you have the opportunity to randomly see some jobs (particularly a private builder) you can get a good idea.

YOU CAN DO PLENTY OF TALKING DOWN THE PUB MATE , WHERE IT BELONGS . IN THE BUILDING INDUSTRY CONTRACTS AND LAWYERS DO THE TALKING .

JUST BECAUSE LAWYERS ARE INVOLVED DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE GOING TO GET A PERFECT RESULT. The law only requires a minimum.

Originally Posted by 302XLS

The biggest downfall or good job of a builder all depends on the supervisor that is building your particular home.

That's pretty much what it all comes down to.

[AUsome]

Originally Posted by 1600GT

another thing too.
believe it or not, but phone cabling and points are still, in 2007, NOT considered an essential service, like power and water, so more often than not, they DONT appear on basic plans. builders will do them on request, call them an 'extra', and add it to the bill.

also, when getting the phone cabling done, get a point put in EVERY room.
this may sound overboard, but trust me, its worth it.
think about it... kids (if u already have them, or will do in the future) need a computer for school work nowadays, and internet access is impossible for study material without a phone point...
its far far far more worthwhile doing at frame stage, coz the cable is less than a dollar a metre, and the extra time to put it there now when compared to getting it done in 12 months after completion...
my addidge is 'u are better off to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.'

when i do an install (i do phone system stuff all day, from little 1 line/3 phones units to 100 line/400 phones stuff), i wire them with computer cable (called CAT5E or better is CAT6) and do it in a mini 'network' configuration.
that way, u have the ultimate in flexibilty for what connects to what, and u can also set up a mini intra-network in ur home if wanted.

hope this helps some.

Couldnt agree with you more. I do the same stuff day in day out, i'm an ACA liscenced cabler. Will cost ALOT less to do it while its getting built rather than afterwards and that way you can have phone/network/tv where ever you want in your house at any time.

[charles_wif_xf]

As long as you steer clear of Henley, you'll be fine. As a former plasterer, I used to cry blue murder when we had to do a Henley house. We'd get there and find a joke of a frame up. We'd start hanging battens to straighten the studs and in would come the Henley "genius" and tell us off. Mind you, we used to hang sheets on their "quality" frame. But when we'd come back to hang cornice, we could immediately see the shocking finish on the sheets. They expect a million dollar finish on a $2 frame. It doesn't matter that they have "independant" assesors, they put out the same rubbish day in, day out.

But the little builder, who builds 5 or 6 houses a year and can't afford to build the rubbish Henley does, would without fail, have a proper frame up; double stud where needed, packed in places that needed it for whatever reason.

So the moral of the story, avoid Henley at all costs.

[blueoval]

I kinda agree with ya there charles. I have seen some henley properties while in construction phase look pretty atrocious. amazes me how they get away with it.

[XRated]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

As long as you steer clear of Henley, you'll be fine. As a former plasterer, I used to cry blue murder when we had to do a Henley house. We'd get there and find a joke of a frame up. We'd start hanging battens to straighten the studs and in would come the Henley "genius" and tell us off. Mind you, we used to hang sheets on their "quality" frame. But when we'd come back to hang cornice, we could immediately see the shocking finish on the sheets. They expect a million dollar finish on a $2 frame. It doesn't matter that they have "independant" assesors, they put out the same rubbish day in, day out.

But the little builder, who builds 5 or 6 houses a year and can't afford to build the rubbish Henley does, would without fail, have a proper frame up; double stud where needed, packed in places that needed it for whatever reason.

So the moral of the story, avoid Henley at all costs.

The moral of your story, is that you've made a very broad, generalising and defaming statement about Henley.

If the studs are bowed, it's a fault of the timber supplier. It is also up to the framer to check each stud and avoid using bowed timber if they can. Of course this can't always be avoided and will happen in any building.
1. Because it may be a supplier fault
2. Because the builder doing the frame should avoid shoddy beams of timber if they can
3. Because it can be fixed (within reason) and not compromise structural integrity

They have another builder come in, once the roof is done, to either buzz or pack the studs accordingly - amongst other things (I should know, I've done it). Of course, this shouldn't be relied on, and should only be necessarry on a small amount of studs. I've seen some frames need no work at all, and others that the framer should be hung and quartered for if he knew how bad the timber was.

It's also the supervisor's responsibility to check the walls with a straight-edge to make sure there is no significant warpage/discrepancy before things like plaster is hung.

A house is generally built in the same fashion, so any house being built should go through these general steps.

Again, if you get a supervisor who doesn't do their job properly, whether he works for Joe Blo or company XYZ, then the house may be compromised.

If anything, Henley in your example, did the right thing: got shitty when plasterers were stuffing around with the building structure.

I'm just curious, but did you tell the supervisor of the home that the frame was unacceptable for hanging plaster? If he didn't take notice, did you try and tell someone in charge of him - if it was a regular occurence? Why didn't you avoid work from Henley if they are such a terrible company?

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by XRated

I'm just curious, but did you tell the supervisor of the home that the frame was unacceptable for hanging plaster? If he didn't take notice, did you try and tell someone in charge of him - if it was a regular occurence? Why didn't you avoid work from Henley if they are such a terrible company?

The supervisor (and almost always the Henley site rep) always got a spray from me and the other plasterers but that did little to nothing to alleviate the situation. A few times, the Henley assesors had stuffed up and ordered the best timber for stud work: the laser milled stuff. Even then, we'd turn up to a shonky frame. Whoever they used to have as the chippies were either hacks (unlikely) or that they were making ultra budget frames on Henley's insistance.

For a little while (before Henley), we worked for Simmonds Homes. Seven times out of 10, we'd turn up to a sh!t frame (still better than Henley's 10 out of 10). The supervisor would get called up and by the next day, most of the faults were rectified. But that didn't last long as the boss (at the time) had a bit of a falling out with Simmonds management and that was that.

The reason I stopped working full time as a plasterer was 50% due to my dud right shoulder and 50% due to Henley. One because of the routine dodge framework and two, they really dragged their heels when it came time for them to cough up the cash for the job. At the time (during the housing boom), Henley was offering top dollar for crews like us to do their plastering and we, like other plastering outfits, took them up on their offer. That changed as the boom cooled. Most of the little builders don't tender out to the lowest bidders; they have the same crews for each part of the construction.

PS I now work as a computer technician; the pay isn't as good but waaaaay less headaches and my shoulder is slowly recovering.

Anyway, my apologies if my little Henley bashing hijacked the thread. :

Originally Posted by blueoval

I kinda agree with ya there charles. I have seen some henley properties while in construction phase look pretty atrocious. amazes me how they get away with it.

They get away with it because they get the newlyweds who want a house and want it NOW as customers. The customers don't do their own inspections and aren't fussed about the quality of the house; as long as it is done FAST. That, and they feel secure with the "warranty" they provide.