Nine dead in a weekend, up go the fines

[RSgerry]

We had an unbelievable weekend in WA with nine people killed in road accidents. Speed has been blamed for every one of the accidents (not surprisingly). Also not surprising is the state governments, and the road safety council's resident peanut, Grant Dorrington, reaction. Lets up the fines. Grunt wants cameras everywhere. Carpenter, the Premier, wants to increase fines that were increased in January.

Firstly, what makes these people think that increasing the fines will work? January's increase obviously has been a dismal failure? The big stick approach has not worked, so their response is to get a bigger stick.

Second, the current labout government were initially elected on the back of a promise to direct 100% of ALL money raised from Kodak Kops to road safety. So far, they have done nothing to honour that promise in about six years. I will support any road safety initiative as long as all proceeds raised go back to roads. Not ministerial perks, not paying off government debt, not to budget surpluses and not to Michelle Roberts weight watcher meetings.

Finally, while I dont doubt that the victims were all speeding, I would like to know if they were doing 63 in a 60 zone, or was it closer to double the speed limit? How badly were these people driving? IN other words, is this government going to again hit Joe Average in the hip pocket for a minor misdemeanor or are these morons finally going to do something about stupid people on the roads? Sadly, I think we all know the answer to that one...

[1970galaxie]

Of course it was speed which was the cause.
If we all sat in our cars parked, then there wouldn't be any deaths!

The Govt really need to EDUCATE drivers.

[XR Martin]

Speed related accident doesnt even have to involve speeds above the limit. It could be just speeds the police/crash investigators deemed faster than the conditions warranted.
Which in theory could be all crashes.

[Jayden]

Wont people go faster with less money weighing down their pockets? nah seriously if fines stopped people being stupid then we would all be doing 10ks under by now. If they introduce the death sentence for going 10 ks over I bet people would still do it.

[JC]

Originally Posted by 1970galaxie

Of course it was speed which was the cause.
If we all sat in our cars parked, then there wouldn't be any deaths!

Actually, with the engine running, you could die of asphyxiation, and then their answer would be to up the price of fuel to deter people from buying petrol.

9 in a weekend is not a good result at all, and knee-jerk reactions from politicians certainly won't remedy it. The answer of course is to increase the speed limit, so that speeding cannot be attributed to any deaths. OK, that was sarcasm. But seriously, if these deaths were on the highway, I would say fatigue/boredom may have been a factor. With a higher speed, people will get home before they get tired. 130km/h would not be unreasonable - a la NTs new limits.

Of course, if the deaths were in residential streets, and they were speeding excessively (more than 10/20 over the posted limit in DRY conditions), then that's just that number of people less to do us damage in the future - Darwin theory, I guess.

[LindsayGT]

Originally Posted by RSgerry

Finally, while I dont doubt that the victims were all speeding, I would like to know if they were doing 63 in a 60 zone, or was it closer to double the speed limit? How badly were these people driving?

I'm led to believe that the motorcyclist that killed himself at the corner of Lesmurdie Rd and Brady Rd was travelling at around 120kph in a 60kph zone - and on a bend that I consider to be dangerous at anything above 60. There is simply NO visibility around the bend.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&...06477,0.009978

[I FluXx I]

one of the crashes killed a guy driving a falcon. The other driver lost control and plowed into him

[normxb]

My Sympathy to all involved , 9 lives is 9 too many .

Now why I'm replying to this thread , just a couple of questions :-

What would slow YOU down ..

1/ Sign posts & speed painted in the road .

2/ Fear of Hidden or Open Radar/Camera's

3/ More Clearly Marked Partol cars on the road .

Just my thoughts and because I'm interested

Norm

(Please no revenue related answers , just answers to the 3 above questions)

[Rock ape]

How do we stop this (driver tax) and get the cops back to real crime.

[`redoctober]

Wait until it gets as bad as Victoria..

Then you'll actually have a right to complain about it O_O

[DoreSlamR]

I used to speed due to thoughts of invincibility and faith on other peoples driving abilities.
Nowdays i won't go much past 10 km's over the limit unless its the odd blat when i pass a truck etc.

what would slow me down? nothing except maybe experiencing firsthand a high speed crash.
Also you could be an absolute brilliant driver but theres still morons out there who could make your nice 130km/h highway drive into a bloody mess coz they pulled out in front of you and who gets the blame? the person who can't judge distances or the one that forensic discover to be going above 110km/h

NOTHING will slow people down, so better education to teach young drivers how to handle a car in high speed emergencies is an option..a good example is a friend of mine decided to go 160 odd kays in his xf, wanted to slow down, put his foot on the brakes and sent his car into a spin..he survived luckily. If he was armed with some knowledge as to what might happen, he may not have done it

just my 2cents worth

[JC]

Originally Posted by normxb

My Sympathy to all involved , 9 lives is 9 too many .

Now why I'm replying to this thread , just a couple of questions :-

What would slow YOU down ..

1/ Sign posts & speed painted in the road .

2/ Fear of Hidden or Open Radar/Camera's

3/ More Clearly Marked Partol cars on the road .

Just my thoughts and because I'm interested

Norm

(Please no revenue related answers , just answers to the 3 above questions)

In every state but Vic, 1 & 3 work. In Vic, it's got to be no 2.

[normxb]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

What would slow me down? nothing except maybe experiencing firsthand a high speed crash.
just my 2cents worth

Yep, mate , Sure doe's ,been there done that . I wasn't a fast driver before ,but was like a snail for a while afterwards . Amazing how you look 10 different directions at once and your foot "hovers" over the brake pedal . My Dad made me drive home that night , he said " If you fall off a horse , you get straight back on" . Best thing he ever did , probably wouldn't have driven for a while afterwards otherwise .

[WAXBFAR]

there are lots more drivers on the road, including recent arrivals from Africa, Asia etc.
the traffic here in Perth is approaching the Sydney crawl and with so much movement, the chances of getting it wrong increase.
roads that were single lane with 70km limit are now double lane with the same limit and still crashing occurs.
only way to limit the road carnage is banning driving.

[LTDHO]

Speed is the answer to all accidents. At least it is the easy unjustifyable excuse. Whilst the general public keep accepting it the government will keep using it.

No where near enough is done on driver education and training. This cost money.

[vztrt]

Out of curisoity where were these accidents and what is the conditions of the roads (dangerous bend, blindspots, etc..)?

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Out of curisoity where were these accidents and what is the conditions of the roads (dangerous bend, blindspots, etc..)?

One I saw was a Daewoo Lanos..... female driver, hit a pole/wall, rolled it over and then burnt
to death in the resulting fire.
(live wires snaking over the car stopped two people from getting her out)

Shame really..... but unless the car was faulty the blame lies with the driver for this one.
(might have even drifted off as she approached the T junction???)

Three in total were killed on bikes. (if my memory is correct)
Two of those were the result of speed v's vehicle turning over the on comming bike.

Most deaths in WA so far this year have been in the country....
at night, or very early morning.....
When the police and the happy snappy squad are still in bed themselves.

I speed. (no it's true)
But I chooce the time and place.

Driving home, after a large day/night out, is most definately not the right time.....
Too tried and my reactions are not 100%

In a area I'm not 100% familar with.... hell no, I can't be sure what is after that bend....

I also take care of my car(s). I know the tread levels, pad levels and fluid levels
of my car.
I know if the temp gauge moves 1mm more than it should, what the "noise" was.....

Most people don't, they just get in and drive.
(how many times in traffic have you heard the car next to you make that lovely metal on metal brake noise?)


D

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Speed is the answer to all accidents. At least it is the easy unjustifyable excuse. Whilst the general public keep accepting it the government will keep using it.

No where near enough is done on driver education and training. This cost money.

Exactly

[T3man]

Originally Posted by normxb

My Sympathy to all involved , 9 lives is 9 too many .

Now why I'm replying to this thread , just a couple of questions :-

What would slow YOU down ..

1/ Sign posts & speed painted in the road .

2/ Fear of Hidden or Open Radar/Camera's

3/ More Clearly Marked Partol cars on the road .

Just my thoughts and because I'm interested

Norm

(Please no revenue related answers , just answers to the 3 above questions)

No 1. wouldn't slow me down - basically I drive to the conditions whilst being mindful of the local limit. In other words as long as it's safe (in MY mind) I'll drive at whatever speed ABOVE the limit I believe I can "get away with". What does having the speed limit painted on the road do? I always know what the posted speed limit is for the area where I'm driving, providing the sign hasn't been taken out by a car collision.

No 2. and No 3. definitely have an effect on how fast I drive - but only to the extent of "how much above the posted limit do I believe I can get away with". If I am driving in the back country in the middle of the night with no traffic I'll drive at whatever speed the current visibility allows - and that might be double the posted limit in some areas. At other times I will keep to within 5km/h of the posted limit.

However the over-riding factor is that "I always drive to local conditions" and that means at times I may be well below the posted limit.

I hate the fact that thinking and capable drivers, in good safe vehicles have to obey speed limits that are imposed to satisfy the "lowest common denominators." I also get very angry that speed limits on similar types of roads can vary considerably and that for instance very often there will be a high limit set on a second rate road whilst a kilometer further along the road one comes to a far superior section of road with a ridiculously low limit.

[blueoval]

speed cameras are an investment in the governments eyes. Spend X on putting up speed cameras, get XXXXXXX in return.

As has already been said, the government wont spend money unless there is something for them in return financially. These recent deaths are just and excuse to justify their reasons for upping the cost of fines etc.

government = greed

[c4ple7on]

Originally Posted by T3man

I hate the fact that thinking and capable drivers, in good safe vehicles have to obey speed limits that are imposed to satisfy the "lowest common denominators." I also get very angry that speed limits on similar types of roads can vary considerably and that for instance very often there will be a high limit set on a second rate road whilst a kilometer further along the road one comes to a far superior section of road with a ridiculously low limit.

Its all well and good if your driving skills are above average but when your going 100 in a 60 zone and someone does a u turn or merges into your lane thinking your going the normal limit then wont that = smash?


I'm not even suprised about the gov's reaction by increaseing fines as many people have said, in the end its all about the money.

Our government is filthy and corrupt.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by normxb

My Sympathy to all involved , 9 lives is 9 too many .

Now why I'm replying to this thread , just a couple of questions :-

What would slow YOU down ..

1/ Sign posts & speed painted in the road .

2/ Fear of Hidden or Open Radar/Camera's

3/ More Clearly Marked Partol cars on the road .

Just my thoughts and because I'm interested

Norm

(Please no revenue related answers , just answers to the 3 above questions)

Honestly none of the above as I don't believe speed is to blame for the vast majority of motor accidents. until people accept this fact, stop swallowing the propaganda and focus on other factors such as **** poor driver training then the carnage will continue. Meanwhile I will continue to get where I am going faster.

[XR06T]

t3 man,

i concur.

driving like this means that if you see someone hesitant you adjust your speed accordingly. it is also how i drive.

most of the problems on the road are caused by severe lack of forsight, which i make sure i have when driving. never assume what someone else is going to do.. thats my motto and i have never crashed into anybody! had one car accidents before but that was when i was young with a lack of expierence, and older car with less safety features etc

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by LindsayGT

I'm led to believe that the motorcyclist that killed himself at the corner of Lesmurdie Rd and Brady Rd was travelling at around 120kph in a 60kph zone - and on a bend that I consider to be dangerous at anything above 60. There is simply NO visibility around the bend.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&...06477,0.009978

If this is true, no amount of legislation or fines could have stopped this stupidity.

Lucky he didn't take a family as well.

[ebxr8240]

The problem with common sense? Is its not very common...
Having driven down to FPV day a few weeks back from NSW. I can tell you its tiredness in some cases...Just sitting behind other drivers. Is steering NOT driving and you soon get very sleepy... Yes the answer is to stop and sleep... But not many do...
Maybe some of these drivers having accidents are used to travelling behind vehicles in built up areas ? Then when they get out on major interstate open roads they make the wrong decisions?? not leaving enough time to pass etc ??...
There are too many reasons why these accidents happen but its always speed that gets blamed...I guess it its the collision in most cases...

[T3man]

Originally Posted by c4ple7on

Its all well and good if your driving skills are above average but when your going 100 in a 60 zone and someone does a u turn or merges into your lane thinking your going the normal limit then wont that = smash?

Short answer ... NO, because if there was another car travelling in the "x" speed zone then I would be driving at a commensurate speed to cope with whatever that driver may do (esp something stupid or wrong) - a capable driver will drive for himself and for others. That is to say he may at times drive above the "capability" limit of other road users BUT he will always allow sufficient "leeway" for whatever those other road users may do.

[Green X]

Yeah up the fines that will solve the problem, or is there really a problem??

[GXL078]

Originally Posted by blueoval

speed cameras are an investment in the governments eyes. Spend X on putting up speed cameras, get XXXXXXX in return.

As has already been said, the government wont spend money unless there is something for them in return financially. These recent deaths are just and excuse to justify their reasons for upping the cost of fines etc.

government = greed

They got rid of police aerial patrols in NSW because they were not generating enough revenue from it to pay for the planes. Never mind that the warning signs might have actually detered people form speding, leading to safer roads. Thats the excuse they gave: "not cost effective". That's the one where they time you btween two white lines on the road and the ground hog pulls you up.

[JC]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

They got rid of police aerial patrols in NSW because they were not generating enough revenue from it to pay for the planes. Never mind that the warning signs might have actually detered people form speding, leading to safer roads. Thats the excuse they gave: "not cost effective". That's the one where they time you btween two white lines on the road and the ground hog pulls you up.

They can do the same job now using cameras. And they do in Vic. Only difference is the postman is the one who delivers the fine.

[blueoval]

It just shows you that they arent really that concerned for the public deaths, but more to the point of how much they can make out of the living.

Education is the best way I can see reducing death tolls. People need it drilled into their minds of the life endangering consequences and the respect for life when driving.

Upping fines is a typical 'knee jerk' reaction as it benefits those dishing out the fines. It doesnt fix the issue and or the way people think of these things. It only causes anger. Its feels as if no one cares.