Should we introduce resitting license tests?

sgt_doofey · 31-05-2017, 09:17 AM

I had to travel down to my mum's house yesterday to help move some furniture. It's about a 55km journey each way. I started the trip driving out of the Barossa smiling thinking about how much I enjoy going for drives.

That soon changed once I hit the Sturt Highway and then on to Main North Road.

First, came across two P-plate drivers sitting in the right hand lane. One was in the 110km/h zone on the highway and if I'm not mistaken, P-plate drivers are only restricted to 100km/h here in SA, right? So this idiot was sitting in the right lane doing 100 in a 110 zone and not moving across. I just ended up passing him in the left lane.
Further down the road, hit the second P-plate driver sitting in the right hand lane again. This one was also on his phone to add to his misdemeanors!

Pass him on the left again and then hit Main North Road. For those of you that don't know, in some sections this is a 3 lane carriage way, each way. I swear we were doing between 60 - 70 km/h for most of that, all 3 lanes. This is an 80km/h zone. I don't know why this occurred, but there were no accidents down the road or emergency vehicles along the way, so I have no idea why everyone was travelling slow. Once again, if people adhered to the Keep Left Unless Overtaking rule, the traffic would have most likely flowed better along there.

I was quite annoyed with Adelaide drivers by the time I got to my Mum's house, but helped moved her furniture, spent some time there and left for home a few hours later. This was a little after 5pm so I knew the roads would be a bit congested so I was very patient heading back out again. That is until I hit yet another person sitting in the right hand lane doing 100km/h in the 110km/h zone once we hit the highway again.
This person I couldn't get past though as there was another slow car sitting in the left lane, doing the right thing. I ended up having to flash my lights at the guy in the right lane so I could get them to move over so I could get past. Once I went past, they then moved straight back in to the right hand lane behind me.

Why should driving approximately 110kms in a few hours be such an infuriating experience for me? Are we a state of people who drive and are completely oblivious to the rest of the cars that we share the road with?
It got me thinking, what can we do to help change the way people drive to make it easier for everyone?
Do we need to introduce resitting license tests, say every 10 years, so people keep up to date with road rules? Do we need to make it compulsory for drivers to sit defensive driving courses to help improve the way people drive on the roads?

In short, what do we need to do to help improve the driving culture on Australian roads?

Wouldn't the government be better of targeting driving initiatives like this if they are serious about improving driver safety and reducing the road toll?

GASWAGON · 31-05-2017, 10:30 AM

The worst is the foreign drivers that some how pass the drivers tests but then are totally incapable of driving at 60k's in suburban traffic let alone 110!

There are road signs on all highways indicating speed limits and to stay left when not overtaking so its all about obeying the road rules that are all in the theory manual you have to read before your driving test.

bally · 31-05-2017, 10:46 AM

I think the first thing we need to do is overhaul the driving test; none of the problems that you pointed out actually form part of the test. In reality, the test is focused on a bunch of things that don't affect safety, such as reverse parking. There is a plethora of things that should be included in the test and aren't; e.g. freeway driving and merging. These things are probably left out due to the length of test that would be required to get to a suitable location from a lot of inner city RMS shopfronts; perhaps we should move to a European competency style licencing scheme, similar to what we already do for trucks?

Once we actually have a decent test, then I agree that regular retesting could be worthwhile. Although, if our esteemed highway patrol actually enforced the rules that improve both efficiency and safety, such as keeping left, maybe retesting wouldn't be required.

**Beastie** · 31-05-2017, 11:20 AM

Sam...

You mentioned in your post that both drivers you encountered were P Platers, so it would be safe to say that they have only held a license for a short time...I don't see how retesting them would change anything?

I definitely agree on some sort of advanced driving course.

I did one when I bought my FPV and it completely changed that way I drive...

Doing a 2 day motor bike test wouldn't hurt either, as they teach you all about 'when it will happen' as opposed to 'if it will happen'.

b0son · 31-05-2017, 12:39 PM

My biggest gripe is elderly drivers who are clearly past it.

I think just like an eye test, there needs to be a test that assesses reaction time, ability to respond appropriately to traffic/emergency (eg. hazard perception test).

Seasoned One · 31-05-2017, 12:52 PM

what would be wrong with once a certain age is reached, or upon a doctors recommendation, getting someone to do a quick 'practical' test, just a drive around to check overall awareness. should become quite apparent in a few minutes if the person needs restricting/ re testing or whether they are not up to it any more. don't have any problem with slower drivers, as long as they KEEP LEFT (sorry , big frustration) I wouldn't like to re sit written test myself, went with my daughter recently and apparently your not supposed to go back through gears anymore, so much has changed, however, a practical drive... show up dangers before a written test would on someone who mentally passes test but physically not capable once on streets,
my two bobs worth

**MercurySilver** · 31-05-2017, 12:57 PM

As someone who also lives in the valley...I think we should ban all drivers that sit on 70kmh in the 90 zone from gawler to tanunda.....no resitting of tests, outright bans should be implemented

Yellow_Festiva · 31-05-2017, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolBFWagon

The worst is the foreign drivers that some how pass the drivers tests but then are totally incapable of driving at 60k's in suburban traffic let alone 110!

There are road signs on all highways indicating speed limits and to stay left when not overtaking so its all about obeying the road rules that are all in the theory manual you have to read before your driving test.

You will like this story then......

I helped a friend of a friend to get their Aussie licence. This person is a Chinese national with a full Chinese licence.

This person also lived in HK for a while, and obtained a full HK licence as well.

From my recollection, this is what they need to do to get a NSW licence. Show either their Chinese or HK licence and then do a test (practical and theory) and start straight on their P's OR wait a certain amount of time and they can obtain their full NSW licence. (ie, straight swap with some paperwork).

The waiting process is I guess to prove they have driving experience. I think they needed to hold the Chinese licence for 5 years and their HK licence for 2 years.

So, they waited the time needed and off we went to get their full NSW licence.

So... I was wondering why the Chinese licence is not 'worth' as much as the HK licence. I guess they are seen as a more 'advanced, westernised' place and their licence had more English on it.

Now, my friend tells me that to obtain a HK licence you simply just visit their version of the roads and traffic authority and simply show them the Chinese licence. Ie, no tests, no theory, no proof of your abilities. It's just a formality.

You with me so far? The HK licence is worth more than a Chinese licence yet the main prerequisite of obtaining the HK licence is that you have the Chinese one first.

So, we leave the RMS and I had the rest of the day free. I told her if she wanted to do some driving (after being here 2 years I would have gone NUTS not driving). She was hesitant but agreed. We went to a side street and swapped seats.

* She didn't know how to start the car.
* She didn't know how an auto worked, (but told me she drove a car with gears and a clutch).
* She automatically drove to the wrong side of the road.
* She had no idea how to steer, she didn't know how to accelerate and brake smoothly, she simply had NO CLUE what she was doing. AT ALL.

So we stopped and changed over again.

I was having a heart attack, she was shaking from having 3 near accidents in under a minute - and she saw no wrong at what she was doing (she was SMILING 'oh, look at me, I'm finally driving')

We went for lunch. Here is what she told me:

* Her Chinese licence was obtained by driving around the block.
* In the 10 years she has had and renewed her licence she has driven a car less than 10 times IN TOTAL. She has never owned a car, and her parents have never had a car or a drivers licence.
* The times she had driven were to park cars for drunk friends or to move a car to another parking spot. She has never gone faster than say 20 or 30 km/h, never worn a belt, never used an indicator or her mirrors, never reversed parked a car, never put fuel in a car etc.
* She was shocked to hear that buying a car in NSW required COMPULSORY insurance, and insisted that it was a waste as most people in China don't have any form of insurance.
* She didn't know any of the street signs, or their meanings.
* She has no clue of the types of insurance available if she did decide to get a car.

There is probably more that I have forgotten. In essence, a person that has no idea at all about driving and owning a car with no experience yet has a full NSW drivers licence...

I have tried to teach her to drive. It's impossible because she has been used to no rules / laws or regulation. To her:

* Lines mean nothing
* Indicators are not really necessary
* Round abouts - well you work it out!
* You change lanes when you want - (what is a blind spot?)
* Driving straight through intersections or around corners without looking is not a problem
* Driving slowly is better than driving at the limit
* Other people's agro and frustrations are their problem, not hers.
* Driving all over the road isn't a problem

This attitude to using the road is almost impossible to 'un-teach'...

But, she can now proudly boast she has THREE full drivers licences... Yet is guaranteed an accident within 2 minutes of driving alone.

You think she is the only one???

You work it out...

sgt_doofey · 31-05-2017, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beastie

Sam...

You mentioned in your post that both drivers you encountered were P Platers, so it would be safe to say that they have only held a license for a short time...I don't see how retesting them would change anything?

2 of the 3 right lane hogs were P-platers. The one I encountered on the way home was a full license driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

As someone who also lives in the valley...I think we should ban all drivers that sit on 70kmh in the 90 zone from gawler to tanunda.....no resitting of tests, outright bans should be implemented

I encountered that on Gomersal Road on my way out yesterday too. Although, my experience was that the driver slowed down for the corners and sped back up again for the straights. Meant I had to pass her (well) above the speed limit when I went past.
Being a major tourist destination here in SA, you're going to get the slower drivers along the Barossa Valley Way looking for wineries to stop at. There should be better roads built to allow slower cars to pull over more to allow others through. (Slow driver pullouts)

prydey · 31-05-2017, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bally

I think the first thing we need to do is overhaul the driving test; none of the problems that you pointed out actually form part of the test. In reality, the test is focused on a bunch of things that don't affect safety, such as reverse parking. There is a plethora of things that should be included in the test and aren't; e.g. freeway driving and merging. These things are probably left out due to the length of test that would be required to get to a suitable location from a lot of inner city RMS shopfronts; perhaps we should move to a European competency style licencing scheme, similar to what we already do for trucks?

Once we actually have a decent test, then I agree that regular retesting could be worthwhile. Although, if our esteemed highway patrol actually enforced the rules that improve both efficiency and safety, such as keeping left, maybe retesting wouldn't be required.

and how did you get your licence? in my experience, most people that say the testing isn't thorough enough, got their own licence under much more relaxed conditions.

i don't agree. i don't think the problem is a practical one. its an attitude thing. people are too selfish these days and too absorbed in their own little world to be bothered worrying about others.

how many people have their phone nearby when they drive? what if there was a law that said driver's phones had to go in the boot or glovebox. i wonder how many people would be able to survive without their precious little electronic device for more than 5 minutes.

bally · 31-05-2017, 11:22 PM

Yes, I got my licence in a slightly easier way than the current NSW method in that I didn't have to do the hazard perception test, but that doesn't mean the method is good. I think you're right about the attitude problem, especially when it comes to mobile phones; people on mobiles are the worst when it comes to near misses on the motorbike.

However, I think there is so much more to it than that. How many times have you seen near misses or been frustrated because of someone who doesn't have the confidence or skills to merge, either onto a freeway or at an inner city left turn with a merging lane? How about that Lena Casparian who apparently didn't realise that she is obliged to keep left unless overtaking when the speed limit is 90 or higher? How about all those elderly people who just don't understand how much havoc they're causing when they decide to go 20, 30, 40 under the limit because they're not in a rush / they're not confident enough or for whatever other reason?

These are the sorts of things that I think could be much better assessed in a licencing system, which may also be able to better manage the attitudinal problem. I can say that in almost a year of driving in Europe, where the licencing system in more rigorous, I did not encounter any of these issues.

The European system may not work in Australia, but whatever happens we should be looking to improve the driving standard instead of continually butting out heads against the wall with the current approach to road safety. If once is a mistake and twice is stupid, what are we up to now?

Rambunctious · 01-06-2017, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

My biggest gripe is elderly drivers who are clearly past it.

I think just like an eye test, there needs to be a test that assesses reaction time, ability to respond appropriately to traffic/emergency (eg. hazard perception test).

Ha Ha, I'm 69, am I clearly past it ?

Or do I have to be older ??

**DJR-351** · 01-06-2017, 09:30 AM

No.....

Attitude adjustment.....Yes!

Pedro · 01-06-2017, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambunctious

Ha Ha, I'm 69, am I clearly past it ?

Or do I have to be older ??

I was blowing off Ferraris at Lakeside in my F6 at 68. Son did a tongue in cheek movie ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY9LNhiTU2A

danzvtil · 01-06-2017, 10:49 PM

I regularly travel from Murray bridge to adl on the freeway, I see it every time, enter the freeway, cross 2 empty lanes to sit in the right hand lane the whole god damn 80kays every.single.effing.time. Drives me insane.
And what's with the latest, cars weaving in and out of lanes,not indicating once, or slamming on the brakes in a bank of traffic, only to turn without indicating, it's getting worse.
Europe celebrates how hard it is to get a license, and how strict adherence to road rules make the system work better for all drivers, here we celebrate mediocrity.

.:4:. · 01-06-2017, 11:06 PM

I don't think re testing is an entirely bad idea. Not just aimed at older drivers but in general. Laws change, yet there is no real supporting measures to get the changes across. I don't watch much tv or read the paper. Even though I'm only 30, I guarentee if I went for the red p plate test I would fail. Not on safe driving or anything like reverse parallel parking. But when I learnt to drive you didn't have to indicate out of a roundabout and I'm sure there are other new "rules" I'm not up on. I don't drive irresponsibly or fast. I drive a painfully slow car. My opinion is not about age, reaction or ability. It's more about the knowledge of what has changed and the public awareness of that and availability of the info.

roKWiz · 01-06-2017, 11:11 PM

I would like to see licence testing every 5 years but we know that's not going to happen. Every new driver should ride shotgun in a truck on the Hume for a week.
Everything else is so regulated and yet so many of us are allowed to be taught by relatives complete with their own set of driving issues.

.:4:. · 01-06-2017, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I would like to see licence testing every 5 years but we know that's not going to happen. Every new driver should ride shotgun in a truck on the Hume for a week.
Everything else is so regulated and yet so many of us are allowed to be taught by relatives complete with their own set of driving issues.

I agree. I'm not a driver by job description, but I drive a vehicle to and from work and between jobs. Yes it's supplied and all running costs are covered by work. Driving is not part of my job. At work I can claim compo if I get messed up. However out of hours if the worst happens and even if it's out of my control, it affects me due to injury and then I have to fight with the opposing party if they are in the wrong just to keep an income. If it's for some unbeknown reason a lapse in my judgement then it's my problem to solve (insured to the max but anyways). I went from a van that was a rolling blind spot to a ute with a massive blindspot however it's always loaded to the roof so its worse bacause it's longer, but neither had a ride on a flatbed tow truck. As previously stated, I might not be all over the current rules, but I am confident to drive.

Rambunctious · 02-06-2017, 09:42 AM

Yea well ??? they always blame the truck driver ???

http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...ruck-m5-sydney

ford71V8 · 02-06-2017, 12:28 PM

Doesn't help that everyone is afraid that rolling a km or 2 over the speed limit could cost them half a weeks wages.

roKWiz · 03-06-2017, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambunctious

Yea well ??? they always blame the truck driver ???

http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...ruck-m5-sydney

Can not believe this !! Saw this on the news last night, the private school this fool bus driver works for were praising him and offered to give him advanced driving lessons. Police are charging him, I hope the people of Sydney pressure this Catholic School and force them to sack him.

.:4:. · 03-06-2017, 07:40 PM

Whilst not a freeway, a few weeks back, I was 5th in line to turn onto lane cove rd (I think it's lane cove road at that point not mona vale road) in terry hills heading to north ryde. The 1st in line was an L plater, then 4 semi trailers. The L plater went straight into the right lane in the 90km/h stretch and the 4 semis in the left lane. Yes the trucks took off slowly but they weren't doing anything wrong. The L plater was only doing 70 it took about 2 kays for the 4 trucks to pass them and with a bit of space all the cars behind me jumped in the left lane and under took. I was running heavy in the ute and was timing it out to get to my next job so I sat behind the dodgy L plater until they pulled a dodgy last minute blind lane change to turn left into a side street. Shame on the instructing drivers part. They should never teach a learner again. The effect it made to congestion was large. I'm not going to blame the L plater because they were more then likely doing what they were told.

Ben73 · 04-06-2017, 01:58 PM

Yes retesting should be done, but the test should change as well. No point retesting if they aren't letting incompetent and inconsiderate pass.

Itsme · 04-06-2017, 02:15 PM

Resitting a license test! what for everyone is an expert on our roads, go ask them.
Seriously not needed at all just need a lot more police presence on the roads to enforce the laws & give out hefty fines might solve the poor driving skills shown by the inept drivers.

Adamz Ghia · 04-06-2017, 03:54 PM

I sit in the right hand lane. If I didn't, every 5 seconds I'd have to be moving over to pass someone doing 90- 95 in a 100 zone. So I stay there until I have a clear run in the left 2 lanes or until someone faster than I am is behind me and I let them past.

.:4:. · 04-06-2017, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I sit in the right hand lane. If I didn't, every 5 seconds I'd have to be moving over to pass someone doing 90- 95 in a 100 zone. So I stay there until I have a clear run in the left 2 lanes or until someone faster than I am is behind me and I let them past.

Isn't that the purpose of the right lane?

05_ENFORCER · 04-06-2017, 04:15 PM

I have just returned from a 7 day visit to SA.
I thought WA drivers were the worst drivers on the planet. I now need to reconsider that statement.
You are correct Sarge, not a lot of drivers give a toss about the road rules.
The worst behaviour on SA roads that I encountered, apart from right lane slow drivers was not allowing someone to move into a lane with an indicator flashing.
I do understand that there is a hell of a lot of traffic on those roads and especially nearing the CBD, but FFS, a little patience is all that is required.

.

.:4:. · 04-06-2017, 05:20 PM

Put this into perspective, my aunty an uncle live in Canberra where a traffic jam is 5 cars stuck at a red light. Yes I'm exaggerating things to a degree, but neither will drive in sydney. Whilst neither are oblivious to their surroundings, they aren't used to the erratic behaviour of others. Also they don't understand the unspoken rule of 10 kays over and stick to 10 kays under. It's different horses for different courses, but I'm pretty sure the rules are generally the same state to state, and when minor things change existing licence holders should be versed on them. I don't indicate leaving a roundabout. Didn't have to when I did my license test. My grandpa refused to acknowledge red arrows because they weren't around when he drove a car around a paddock to get a licence.

**GO FURTHER** · 04-06-2017, 05:22 PM

Licence retesting should be mandatory for any driver pulled over by police who cause an accident or break the road rules and clearly admit to police they did not know or were unaware of the road rule they broke.

Even attendance at a mandatory "refresher course" would be beneficial to those drivers.