Diesel vs Petrol titanium?

dan76n · 25-09-2012, 09:21 PM

We are looking at getting a 2009/10 titanium mondeo and am undecided on whether we should fork out the extra 3k+ for a diesel.
The car will be for my wife and is replacing a 2006 Mazda 3 max sport as she is pregnant and the mondeo boot space will hold everything she needs without folding the chairs unlike the Mazda 3.
What pros and cons are there in our situation for the two options?

whitetdci · 01-10-2012, 03:43 PM

We have a 2009 MA Diesel. A few things that I would weigh up.
1/ What sort of driving are you going to do?
If the majority of your driving will be city stop start, then I would say IMHO that a diesel would not like this too much and I would advocate a petrol. If, however, you do longer trips and not short hops, then I would suggest the diesel. The fuel cost on a diesel may be a little more expensive per litre but you are getting a lot better fuel economy. I wouldn't run E10 in anything and if you can get it regular 91 would be you next cheapest option. 95 is usually always more expensive than diesel and sometimes heaps more.
2/ Will you be towing anything with it?
If the answer is yes then the diesel will absolutely kill the petrol. Also there are a couple of very affordable modifications that can be made on the diesel that will boost your power and torque whilst reducing your fuel consumption. I have done these on our vehicle and can attest to the results. Power up from 96 kw to around 120 kw and torque up from 320 nm to around 350nm. I can have ours on cruise control on 110 kph going up a steep hill and it wont even change down. Best fuel on a trip so far is 4.9L/100k over around 600+km. You wont do that in a petrol unless it is one of those wind up buzz bombs or (caution , bad word ahead!!) a Prius!!
The Zetec and TDCI appear identical in regards to appointments so it comes down to fuel choice.
This is our first diesel and from our experience it wont be the last. We bought ex lease from Pickles and it had 170,000km on it. Most people would be scared of the high mileage on it, but lower km with stop/start city driving would be worse on a diesel. This was a country reps car and averaged over 1k per week. For such a late model vehicle it presents as excellent value. You can find similar vehicles if you are prepared to wait a while. Here is a link that compares all the MA models for economy and features. Hope this helps. http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/new/compare-details
There are plenty of cheap MA TDCI out there at present. Don't know your budget but have a look here. http://www.carsales.com.au/car/brand...~1&sort=~Price

whitetdci · 01-10-2012, 03:46 PM

Oh and just in case you want to compare the Zetec costs on the same site. http://www.carsales.com.au/car/brand...~1&sort=~Price

mas89 · 01-10-2012, 05:22 PM

Just done a trip from melb to bris in a ecoboost zetec 2 adults 2 kids & 1 boot full..plenty of power using only 2 tanks...we got over 800klms per tank,,yes a diesel could have done 900+ but was very happy with what ours done..

whitetdci · 01-10-2012, 06:06 PM

Ok we averaged 5.5L/100 KM on the last trip of over 1000km. That equates to getting over 1200 km out of a tank. To be fair to mas89 they didn't mention how many km they did nor the litres per 100km attained. We were 3 up with car load of ski gear etc. I would be interested in the comparison if you have the figures.

Batman105E · 01-10-2012, 08:55 PM

I would go for the diesel every day of the week - I am an owner of one so take what I say as being a little biased but...

We mainly do country miles and get 7l/100km or better consistently, with the car fully loaded four on board plus dog and we can get to Sydney from home (920km on 56l last trip) on a tank with plenty to spare.

With mainly city driving we get between 8 and 10l/100km, never worse than 10.4l/100km and that was the second tank we ever used.

By comparison in the last week we have been driving a Toyota Corolla on holiday in Brisbane and have got around the 10l/100km doing city driving.

Depending on how long you keep the car you will get some of the $3k premium for a diesel back when you sell it on. Obviously the longer you keep the car, you will get less of the extra $3k paid for the diesel. Throughout the life of the car the diesel resale will be higher than a comparative petrol car, but obviously as they age the gap does become smaller.

mas89 · 01-10-2012, 09:23 PM

On our trip we did a average of 7.5 ( 800klms on 60litres ). I know it will not bet the diesel ..but still the new ecoboost is the next best thing..
but being 2009 model I would go for the diesel.

dan76n · 02-10-2012, 07:56 AM

Thanks guys,
I think I will just go for what ever pops up at a good price while looking.
Most the driving will be short trips but once a month we like to visit family which is a 400km return trip so I think we could essentially have either petrol or diesel.
Being after a Titanium specifically also reduces the choices out there.
I drive Bf Fairmont Ghia which has the tow ball so no towing would be needed with it.
Whitetdci, I am interested in the affordable modifications you mention for the diesel. Do you have a link to a thread on this? What sort of costs are involved?
My budget is also low 20's, but would push to mid 20's is a super priced MC popped up.
Not much about at the moment though so we might be car pooling for a few weeks or so yet.

Canyonero · 02-10-2012, 10:44 AM

I've had a Zetec Ecoboost for two whole weeks now, so I am still a bit of a newby.

I understand that people like the driving experience in a diesel, particularly the torque. However, I looked at the whole cost of ownership in the petrol vs diesel comparison and I have come to the conclusion that petrol in general and the EcoBoost in particular is the way to go. The EcoBoost has 25% more power and 90% of the torque of the diesel and it produces it over a wider rev range. You can really feel the torque coming in at 1500rpm and it is maxed at 300Nm from 1750 to 4500rpm, which is much wider range than the diesel. So I concluded that there wasn't a great advantage in the driving experience one way or the other.

The purchase and running costs are, I believe, the main issue. The diesel has a higher initial cost and though the better economy is there, the payback period is way beyond what I would consider a reasonable time. I haven't worked it out in this case, but for other cars it can be anywhere from 10-15 years. The fuel prices of ULP95 vs diesel is variable to say the least, sometimes one is cheaper than the other. But I would assume on average over a couple of years there isn't a lot of difference. The other thing is the service costs. Ford quote at 60,000km $930 for the diesel and $490 for the EcoBoost.

I am not saying don't get a diesel, there are obviously a lot of very happy owners out there, but I believe there are a lot more things to consider than just the fuel consumption before making a decision.

(I've just read your first post again and realised that you are probably looking at the models before the EcoBoost. So perhaps I have gone a little off topic. In which case the performance and economy of the 2.3L vs diesel is no comparison. Perhaps the diesel would be worth the extra for the economy and grunt alone.

Though I still think my comments in general are valid for the current model, I'm not so sure about my comprehension skills.)

allanv6gt · 03-10-2012, 09:27 PM

Well, my XR5 Turbo is the first turbo I've owned. I must say having all that turbo'd troque come in at 1700rpm until whenver is really nice. I just drive around on < 2500 revs all the time - no need to wring it's neck to get moving.

By comparison, a turbo diesel Mazda6 6-spd manual I compared before purchase was constantly needing a change of gears to keep in the power/tirque range. I kknow and auto would solve this problem.

So it comes back to driveability overall....IMHO turbo'd something is the way to go.

digbc · 03-10-2012, 11:12 PM

I have a 2008, (MB I think) turbo diesel and am obviously biased towards it, but would add that something that hasnt been mentioned here with the diesel I have noticed is that you do need to at some stage regularly do some higher speed driving as they do have a DPF .With our car as I dont regularly drive it I can pick the difference straight away (wifes car) in the lower power when it needs a regen.I have a CR tech chip box same as whitetdci and on our regular trip to gorokan from sydney have averaged around 5.6 l/100km @ 120km/hr.In my BF falcon that would be around 10-11 l/100km a big difference.Just something to also consider I think is the type of driving you will be doing city / hwy .Also I would consider good second hand, as mentioned there is savings to be made on buying new.

nevetsg · 10-10-2012, 11:34 PM

Hi, I have just returned from a trip up to Newcastle in my MA TDCi. I was very interested in how it would handle the big climbs on the way back down the freeway. My old NL fairlane with an Xr6 engine would pull OK up them but always kick back to 3rd. The 3.4L XE before that could hold 120 in top gear (just).
Anyway, I set the cruse to 119ish (GPS showing 115ish) and let it take me, fully loaded, up the hill. No complaints, no gear changes, slight engine noise increase and the fuel consumption jumped to about 12l/100. The speed didn't budge until I gave it a little to undertake a struggling car in the fast lane (dan76n is a QLDer, Lanes rules don't apply up there :-P). The pulling power of this Diesel Engine amazes me.
The only issue I had was controlling myself to do 40 in the school zones just after getting back to the city... So hard.

whitetdci · 11-10-2012, 10:26 AM

Nevetsg, I have found the same as you. Even on the Ourimbah and Mooney Creek hills it doesn't budge out of top gear and just chugs along. PS you are bloody scary mate! I do exactly, EXACTLY the same thing with the GPS and set it at exactly, EXACTLY the same speed. If I ever see a red MA Mondy tailgating me all the way to Sydney or return I will know who it is lol!!

nevetsg · 11-10-2012, 01:50 PM

Sorry, but according the the laws of car colours my Red one will be going faster then your White one. It is the natural order of things and cant be avoided :-P

*edit*
On the speed topic, I found that if I set it to 114 then I was constantly having to avoid the non cruse controlled cars hovering at 110. Slowly catch up and pull out to over take just to have them speed up. Rinse and repeat. Setting at 119 was enough to just cruse past them allowing for their variance.

whitetdci · 11-10-2012, 06:14 PM

As I said bloody scary. That is the same reason I do it, plus no highway patrol officer will even look twice at you at 5 over. PS I have red undercoat so I must be faster lol

digbc · 11-10-2012, 10:19 PM

I have to join in here and usually set mine at 120 on the speedo roughly ,true speed a bit slower I guess, and the car is scary as it shows no sign of slowing on any hill just diesels on up .I to will have to keep an eye out for the flying diesels (mine sea mist grey )

dan76n · 11-10-2012, 11:20 PM

We went for a quick drive last night to get some fuel and I was trying to explain to the wife how the ACC works.
I told her she can adjust the speed via 5km increments by pressing the arrows or 1km increments up by pressing the Res button (I think?)
Anyway, we were cruising at 60km/ph in the 70km zone so she decided to increase the speed with the arrow up but instead of just tapping it twice to get to 70km she held it down like we do in my Fairmont thinking she would just release it when the speedo hit 70km.
Suddenly the car started to excelerate rapidly until she panicked and hit the brake pedal.
Turns out she didn't realise the cruise control speed you set is displayed on the panel and when she held it down it shot up to 130km so the car went for it.
Quite funny I must say.

whitetdci · 12-10-2012, 11:30 AM

Would have loved to have had the video rolling on that one LMAO

whitetdci · 12-10-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digbc

I have to join in here and usually set mine at 120 on the speedo roughly ,true speed a bit slower I guess, and the car is scary as it shows no sign of slowing on any hill just diesels on up .I to will have to keep an eye out for the flying diesels (mine sea mist grey )

Yep we will be passing you on the hills when you fall into a hole

nevetsg · 13-10-2012, 12:30 AM

Dan76n, the Titanium must operate differently to my TDCi. My + and - are 1 KM increments and I can hold it down + and let go at the desired speed. I don't get to see the set speed in the dash, other than the speedo. Res is to resume back to the set speed after breaking or hitting Can over on the left.
You (should) have the colour in dash display, the Radar with distance adjuster on the left as well as the speed limiter options. So very well could operate different to mine. I test drove a Titanium that was way out of our price range. So many cool toys.