WA Hoon Laws - VF HSV permanently confiscated and to be auctioned off

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Simply not true; death due to lighting strike is very rare in Australia see http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....2?OpenDocument and download the spreadsheet. One death from lightning in both 2011 and 2012, 0 in 2010, 1 in 2009, 3 in 2008, 2 in 2007, 0 in 20065, 0 in 2006 etc. Don't know how many were on golf courses (or fishermen using carbon fishing rods. Yet I read several headline each year about a number of speeding street racers killed just in WA.]

How many of those speeding street racers died on a golf course though? Lol

You bring up another point inadvertantly. You state that these deaths were a result of 'speeding' street racers but didn't mention the word 'hoon'.

Hoon laws cover a large and rather a vague blanket type of anti social behaviour on the roads, which in itself is a problem. I think of hooning as someone trying to destroy their tyres and diffs doing burnouts. You may think of it as someone travelling at high speed, but I think of that behaviour as speeding.

Either way there were already laws in place to punish either offence before the hoon laws were introduced, so why do we need laws that permit govco to take personal property? Vague laws that allow govco to take your assets are scary!

Now that a precedent is set and many Australians don't have a problem with that, what other new laws might they try to put into place to seize peoples assests? All the while the real crims get off relatively lightly.

[Dash_XR]

As long as cars can do those speeds people will. Is it Japan or Europe where some supercars have limiters that only deactivate when on certain race tracks?

[FPV+fteT3]

Then you have this below ex wife of James Packer driving whilst disqualified hit 3 cars had more chance of killing someone than a sober guy driving fast in the outback yet only gets a measly fine and another 12 months disqualification which she ignored last time. Goes to prove justice is what you get when you run out of money or dont have rich friends.

Police have asked prosecutors to consider appealing the sentence handed to Jodhi Meares over her drink-driving crash in Sydney's eastern suburbs.

A local court fined Meares $1100 and banned her from driving for one year after she pleaded guilty to a drink driving charge.

But the offence carries a maximum penalty of 18 months' jail and a fine of $3300, News Corp reports.

The 43-year-old model-turned-designer blew three times the legal blood alcohol limit after rolling her Range Rover and damaging three parked cars in Bellevue Hill on June 2.

Meares reportedly was on her sixth driving suspension at the time but two further charges of driving while suspended were withdrawn.

"The NSW Police Force has made a request to the DPP [Director of Public Prosecutions] to review the sentence," a police spokesman said.

[Xc turbo]

So they have taken his car away
Banned him from driving for life
Sad thing is he is twenty two he will drive again just unlicenced
I don't believe in hooning there is tracks for that
Take his car fine
Take his license for life not good way of teaching people
The money would be better spent on driving programs
One day he will grow up and his life is in pieces because of bad decisions when he was younger
And the laws are making it harder to for people to get rehabilitation
This guy is on a spiral of bad times ahead now because of the life ban
He will drive may get caught and back to court again
Plus will be unlicenced uninsured
Just my two cents worth

[Maka]

No ones above the law, he has to suck it up like the rest of the people who get caught out breaking the law. Shame his ignorance cost him his Senator, how else do you get through to these repeat offenders though?

cheers, Maka

[Trump]

The problem is, govco have legitimised the theft of peoples cars by creating a new crime out of a non-crime and labelling it - hooning.

[tweeked]

What other laws are in place taking away peoples property purchased with legally obtained funds? How would you be if there was a crackdown on people hoarding what everyone else sees as rubbish on their property, and after three warnings/offences they lost their house?

There are plenty of punishments that are in line with all other offences, fines, jail, bonds..... Any of you that agree with this one offence which can be from someone in the middle of nowhere doing a skid at 0 kph (no victim apart from a abused dunlop) to dangerously speeding in a populated area having the same repercussions need to think again, or just keep sending love letters to Tracy Grimshaw.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Maka

how else do you get through to these repeat offenders though?

Same way you used to. Dangerous driving charges, in court, jail sentences on repeat offences.

Hoon laws were created so that the police could do away with the need for court to inflict a punishment. Now, you are punished BEFORE you have your day in court.

Its just lazy policing.

[Maka]

Whats the gov to say to a family who just lost a family member to a repeat hoon offender? Sorry but we didnt fine him enough or jail him long enough?

If this young person really loved his ride, like a proper car enthusiast, he woudnt be hooning / thrashing it on public roads like he's repeatedly been proven to do so. He knew on the second strike he will be losing his car if caught again but he chose to hoon again & got busted. The law is clear!

Maybe its time for him to have a word to Ricky Muir or form a lobby group?

cheers, Maka

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Maka

The law is clear!

Because the law is fair or right?

Would you be happy to wear a fine that would bankrupt you for downloading a GoT torrent? Because technically, it could happen.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by Maka

Whats the gov to say to a family who just lost a family member to a repeat hoon offender? Sorry but we didnt fine him enough or jail him long enough?

What is the government meant to say about all the other criminals they let out that recommit offenses, in this country people get the chance to be rehabilitated and are release. A life long license ban flies in the face of that. Also he had a gaol sentence, people who have killed people with their cars go to gaol, are release and after a set period (1, 3yrs or what ever) receive their license back. That's someone who killed someone, he did not and go a harder sentence because his behaviour is antisocial.......

Problem is its not the hoons, and their antisocial behaviours, that are most likely to kill people, it the repeat offender who don't fall under the hoon category. The punishment for which is lesser than those covered by hoon laws and which doesn't carry confiscation of property. The law is meant to punish with the consistency of the crime, murder carries a harsher sentence than assault etc. I said this earlier and was told other offenses arent relevant but the fact is that they are.

The new hoon laws are a step in a scary direction, people are being punished extremely hard for what is constantly described as antisocial behavior. Terms and clarity are extremely important when it comes to the law, right now we have police exceeding the powers they are meant to have due to vague laws against antisocial behaviour. What else down the track may be considered antisocial behaviour?



It amazes me just how well the media can brain wash the general public.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by b0son

Because the law is fair or right?

Would you be happy to wear a fine that would bankrupt you for downloading a GoT torrent? Because technically, it could happen.

Some nuts (this subject) are to hard to crack, even with a 200 ton hydraulic press

If this law (which could be viewed as draconian) was designed like that on purpose it probably shows how serious the WA gov is about this issue, if the WA drivers have a issue with the confiscation part of the law, go lobby the gov to change it. Or go see Ricky Muir!

cheers, Maka

[mik]

It doesn't really say the circumstances of the offense, if he was driving like a dick*in*a built up area caught 3 times...... tuff luck bud, if he was out on a lonely bit of Highway driving in a safe manner, its to extreme, on the other side of the pond people legally cruise at those speeds , a bit of common sense needs to be used regarding these infringements instead of pollies having laws made so they can score political points from the knee jerk fringe.

[XR6TCraig]

Unfortunately while I agree with you Mik, common sense and the law are mutually exclusive and those that enforce them don't apply common sense or discretion in their enforcement.

[steve.zissou]

Hoon laws - generated to appease a generation of Abe Simpsons.

I hear they are currently working on egg molestation laws which relate to eggs that are too runny (or not runny enough) along with thermostat regulation because its always too hot or too cold.

travel overseas to see how nanny state we have become - there were always laws for speeding, and if it was dangerous speeding there was extra charges that could be applied if the situation required

When i was in the US recently, I was overtaking a truck and a car came speeding up behind my while i was on the wrong side of the road (while over taking). it was a cop car. I slowed down to maybe 10 mph over the limit to allow me to continue to over take. He pulled me over and gave me a blast for over taking too slowly. I explained what things were like in Australia and he thought it was ridiculous and dangerous. I explained it was more to do with justifying revenue raising which he could totally understand.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

What is the government meant to say about all the other criminals they let out that recommit offenses, in this country people get the chance to be rehabilitated and are release. A life long license ban flies in the face of that. Also he had a gaol sentence, people who have killed people with their cars go to gaol, are release and after a set period (1, 3yrs or what ever) receive their license back. That's someone who killed someone, he did not and go a harder sentence because his behaviour is antisocial.......

Problem is its not the hoons, and their antisocial behaviours, that are most likely to kill people, it the repeat offender who don't fall under the hoon category. The punishment for which is lesser than those covered by hoon laws and which doesn't carry confiscation of property. The law is meant to punish with the consistency of the crime, murder carries a harsher sentence than assault etc. I said this earlier and was told other offenses arent relevant but the fact is that they are.

The new hoon laws are a step in a scary direction, people are being punished extremely hard for what is constantly described as antisocial behavior. Terms and clarity are extremely important when it comes to the law, right now we have police exceeding the powers they are meant to have due to vague laws against antisocial behaviour. What else down the track may be considered antisocial behaviour?

It amazes me just how well the media can brain wash the general public.

Im not brainwashed & dont assume i dont know whats going on either Nova 8! I'm sorry to hear about the issues of justice & consistency you are going through.

But still, get of your butt & direct your frustrations to someone who makes the law or better still, the WA Attorney General! See that way you'll have more luck getting something done!

cheers, Maka

[NEEDspeed]

Unfortunately sending any correspondence to the lawmakers in WA falls on deaf ears.
Before the state election representatives from many different car clubs and organizations met with local members of the differing political parties, of which the Liberals seemed to be the most willing to listen and act on our views.
Since then, this Liberal Govt has done nothing but continue the onslaught of hate towards minority road groups with no lower road-toll to reflect any success. I have sent now 3 letters all in the last month to Liza Harvey (Police, tourism, Women's interests minister) without reply and one to the Police commissioner. I have never had any response from either, and now it seems I must go higher.

As far as I can see it, nothing will change (either the pollies opinions or the road toll) and the only way forward is a vast number of us standing up against the corruption.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by b0son

Because the law is fair or right?

Would you be happy to wear a fine that would bankrupt you for downloading a GoT torrent? Because technically, it could happen.

The question of 'right or wrong' is not extremely the point to consider here. However, if you download a GoT torrent and you're warned not once, but twice that you will receive a fine able to bankrupt you should you choose to do it again should teach you a lesson. If you choose to ignore it, you're the fool. Same theory applies here, he was warned, fined, penalised not once but twice and he would know, just like anyone, what the repurcussions would be for a third offence.

Do the crime, do the time.

It doesn't matter whether it is indeed a crime, or whether the punishment is fair, the fact remains: he cannot change the law, therefore he needs to act within it or suffer the consequences.

[dragons90]

Type 1 and type 2 hooning offences

Hooning offences are now classed as either a Type 1 or Type 2 offence. Each Type—group of offences—carries different impound, immobilisation and confiscation penalties.

Type 1 offences are:
•dangerous driving
•careless driving
•organising, promoting or taking part in racing and speed trials
•wilfully starting a motor vehicle or driving in way that makes unnecessary noise or smoke
•evading police.

Type 2 offences are:
•driving a vehicle that is uninsured and unregistered
•driving without a licence or when your licence has been suspended
•high range drink driving—with a blood alcohol level above 0.15%
•exceeding the speed limit by more than 40km/h
•driving a modified vehicle that does not comply with vehicle safety standards
•driving while under a 24 hour suspension order.

For both a Type 1 and a Type 2 offence—depending on the seriousness of the offence—you can be issued an infringement notice, a notice to appear in magistrates court or you may be arrested.

That's QLD's hoon laws, so doing a burnout is more dangerous then high range drink driving which is equal with illegal mods.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by dragons90

That's QLD's hoon laws, so doing a burnout is more dangerous then high range drink driving which is equal with illegal mods.

Wrong but nice try
The offence you quote is in addition to the standard drink driving licence disqualification and fine.

[dragons90]

Not really the financial cost of having a vehicle confiscated will be a lot more then any fine.
They can confiscate on the second offence for driving in way that makes unnecessary noise or smoke (Which could be interpreted as taking of from the lights to fast.) Where you get 4 chances for high range drink driving.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by NEEDspeed

Unfortunately sending any correspondence to the lawmakers in WA falls on deaf ears.
Before the state election representatives from many different car clubs and organizations met with local members of the differing political parties, of which the Liberals seemed to be the most willing to listen and act on our views.
Since then, this Liberal Govt has done nothing but continue the onslaught of hate towards minority road groups with no lower road-toll to reflect any success. I have sent now 3 letters all in the last month to Liza Harvey (Police, tourism, Women's interests minister) without reply and one to the Police commissioner. I have never had any response from either, and now it seems I must go higher.

As far as I can see it, nothing will change (either the pollies opinions or the road toll) and the only way forward is a vast number of us standing up against the corruption.

Good on you for having a go! Whats the WA opposition & local AMEP position on this issue? Have you considered contacting these organisations too?

cheers, Maka

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Do the crime, do the time.

That's the sort of mindless response the government expect of the sheeple.

I expect punishments to fit the crime. A fine potentially 10's of thousands of dollars is a joke, when a company can pollute the environment with toxic spills etc, and cop a smaller fine, for what is without question a bigger crime.

If any driver should cop such a fine, its the serial drink driver or the repeat unlicensed driver. They're uninsured, so the potential cost to the other party they might hit is of similar level.

[paule11]

I am glad there are no members here who have done over 180kph on the highway.

Oh to be 22 again empty highway and very few speed guns

[NTF6]

Right, I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works.

Was doing 180kph illegal or dangerous because simply driving at 180kph is not necessarily reckless driving or dangerous driving. It may have been illegal and the penalty warranted but think for a second, I live in the NT and we used to have open speed limits everywhere, go as fast as you like, no questions asked, not stopped by the police, even overtake the police if you wanted to. Then the law changes and you now you can't go as fast as you like but does doing 180kph now mean that your being unsafe or dangerous or reckless. No it doesn't, now you're just doing something illegal.

Plus we still have quite a long stretch of road where you can still do 200kph if you want to. Does doing 200kph in the allowable zone and then doing 180kph when the zone finishes and goes back to 130kph mean you doing something dangerous/reckless/potential to kill someone where 30 seconds before it was ok to do 200kph, food for thought?

[Xc turbo]

Originally Posted by paule11

I am glad there are no members here who have done over 180kph on the highway.

Oh to be 22 again empty highway and very few speed guns

I thought I'dask me ole man as know he used to race for pink slips in homebush sydney many moons ago
Asked if he used to hoon around
His answer was
It wasn't hooning
He said things where different then and cars could go fast but where stronger
But his main answer was there where not as many idiots on the road
He said the problem may not always be the speeder sometimes it the car or another driver that all goes wrong
also things where not as built up as they are today
and some cars with mods today people don't learn with the car before they take it to the limit
So my final questions to him was did ya ever go over 200klm and what does he think of hooning
His answer was yes
but said wouldn't do it on a public road today need me license
On hooning he said its just a word for it they have today and the laws won't work
He said they need to get involved with car clubs and create places for the kids to go but its hard today due to public liability insurance but the government can fix that he said
But it does not raise revenue that way it costs money
He said the cops used to come to the drags at home bush all them years ago now they have quotas they must meet that's revenue raising
Not policing
Well that's his two cents worth

[aussiblue]

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Traffic/...8/Default.aspx

Hoon driving

The WA Government is concerned with the level of hoon-related activity occurring on our roads and is keen to send a strong message to irresponsible drivers that such antisocial driving behaviour will not be tolerated.

What is hoon driving?

A hoon driver is anyone who drives at very high speed or in a manner that is considered highly dangerous or antisocial.

Examples include:
◾intentionally causing tyres to lose traction
◾causing a vehicle to make excessive noise or smoke
◾exceeding the speed limit by 45 km/h or more (e.g. travelling at more than 155 km/h in a 110 km/h zone )
◾engaging in a race or speed trial on a public road or in a public space

Vehicles that are being driven in a reckless or dangerous manner, such as doing burnouts or racing another vehicle, can be impounded under the Road Traffic Act 1974. WA Police also has the power to impound the vehicles of drivers who exceed the speed limit by 45 km/h or more. Those who have their vehicles impounded by police are responsible for all costs including towing and storage.

There are also other driving offences where a vehicle can be impounded, for example:
◾driving while disqualified
◾driving while under suspension
vehicles

Western Australia Police will impound vehicles roadside in every instance when:
◾You drive a vehicle without a valid driver’s licence for certain unauthorised driving offences, including driving contrary to a Disqualification Notice; or

◾You drive recklessly, commonly referred to as a hoon type offence (e.g., speeding 45km/h over the limit).


How long will the vehicle be impounded?

1st offence

2nd or subsequent
offence

Driver's Licence Convictions 28 days 28 days
Reckless Driving Charges 28 days 3 months

NOTE: Court proceedings may be initiated for a further impound or confiscation order for subsequent offences

How do I collect a vehicle from the impound yard?
1.Attend a local police station (ID and proof of ownership required) to obtain a completed “Application for release form”.

2.Only the owner may authorise another person to collect the vehicle, by completing and signing the bottom section of the “Application for release form” before the vehicle will be released to another person.

3.Contact the storage provider to arrange for the collection of the vehicle.

4.The person collecting the vehicle will be required to produce to the storage provider the “Application for release form” and proof of ID.

5.Pay the costs in full, the vehicle will then be released.

NOTE: Approval for the release of the vehicle does not give an authority to drive. If you do not hold a current valid driver's licence, you must not drive and should make alternative arrangements.

What costs are to be paid?

The driver of the vehicle is responsible for ALL impounding costs including:
1.Towing the vehicle to the storage yard;
2.Storage fees for the vehicle during the impound period;
3.Additional storage calculated daily until collection;
4.Any administrative fees and charges.

The costs associated with an impound will vary depending on where the vehicle was impounded. In the Metropolitan area the typical cost for a 28 day impoundment is about $900.

Who pays the costs of impounding?
◾The person collecting the vehicle must pay all costs associated with the impounded vehicle.

◾If the owner is not the driver, the owner can pay to collect the vehicle and later may consider to recover the costs from the driver through civil proceedings.

When is payment required?

All impoundment costs must be paid BEFORE the vehicle will be released
from the storage provider, unless a payment plan has been approved.

motorcyclist caught speeding
Early release of an impounded vehicle

In certain circumstances where it is proven that “exceptional hardship” will be suffered if a vehicle is not released early (before the expiration of the impoundment period) then consideration will be made for the early release of the vehicle.

NOTE: Cases where a person is merely inconvenienced by the loss of a vehicle will NOT be accepted as a “hardship” case. “Application for Early Release” forms are available from any police station.

What happens if I do not collect the vehicle at the end of the impound period?
◾Upon conviction of an impounding offence, proceedings will commence to dispose of the vehicle.

◾The convicted offender is liable for all costs associated with the vehicle's impound and disposal.

◾If the sale of a vehicle does not cover these costs, the driver will be sent an invoice for the outstanding amount and debt collection processes commenced.

◾At the end of the impound period (28 days or 3 months) the vehicle may be returned to the owner’s last recorded address at additional towing costs. To avoid these additional costs it is your responsibility to collect the vehicle as soon as possible after the impound period has expired.

Reduce your costs
1.You can reduce costs by electing to have the vehicle stored in open storage instead of covered storage. Open storage is considerably less costly. To arrange this, contact the storage provider.
2.After 48 hours of having the vehicle impounded for an unauthorised driving offence, you can apply to have the vehicle disposed of at the next auction. You are still responsible for any impound costs not covered by the disposal of your vehicle. Application to sell an impounded vehicle is available from any police station or online.
3.Pick up the vehicle on the day it is available for release. A delayed pick-up will incur additional fees for each day the vehicle remains in storage

[tweeked]

And the problem with the fees above is that they are ridiculous. So in addition to the fine you have to pay for

The tow.
Storage fees so high I reckon they must be parking the car in an airport car park.
Admin fees and charges.

Additional fees for storage which apply if you cannot pay in full at time of picking up the car.

Also the paper in Vic is whinging because only a third of hoons are also forced to pay $1000 for a 1 day brainwashing course.

No wonder why some people can never afford to pick up a car that is impounded after 1 three second spin of the wheels.

None of these charges seem to be at a commercial rate. This is where the system becomes a farce, and all made easily passed as so many people just have the "do the crime do the time" mentality. The time part is not commensurate with the crime compared to other offences.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by b0son

That's the sort of mindless response the government expect of the sheeple.

I expect punishments to fit the crime. A fine potentially 10's of thousands of dollars is a joke, when a company can pollute the environment with toxic spills etc, and cop a smaller fine, for what is without question a bigger crime.

If any driver should cop such a fine, its the serial drink driver or the repeat unlicensed driver. They're uninsured, so the potential cost to the other party they might hit is of similar level.

How wise of you to ignore the part where I said "he or anybody else may not agree with the law, but the law is the law and if you get busted more than once you're the idiot."

Just because you don't believe the punishment fits the crime, doesn't trigger a thought in your head that it should then be okay to go and commit it.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by SCUD

How wise of you to ignore the part where I said "he or anybody else may not agree with the law, but the law is the law and if you get busted more than once you're the idiot."

Just because you don't believe the punishment fits the crime, doesn't trigger a thought in your head that it should then be okay to go and commit it.

I sorry of haven't seen anyone saying that it is ok to go and do it?????

Or did I miss that?