A simple question

red_hotxr6 · 29-07-2006, 06:26 PM

Or we allowed to discuss the war in the middle east on here or is that a no no.A simple yes or no please.Thanks.

Outbackjack · 29-07-2006, 07:02 PM

I have been thinking the same thing. But it is one of those issues that seems to get people a bit hot under the collar. The plus factor about the current "war" is that lots of people are taking the time to learn the truth about the whole middle east crisis. They seem to be learning history in a factual way. The whole world needs to learn this history. The facts and not the propaganda. It has been interesting to read the blogs on the news.com web site. I think that we Austalians at least, are starting to take a much keener interest. People are starting to see that there are 2 distinct sides to these issues. And there are no equal victims.

I hope this thread can survive. This issue is relevant to us all in a way. FUEL PRICES.

There is lots to learn, but some folks dont want to learn the facts, sometimes religion is a road block to knowledge.

Cheers all.

**Polyal** · 29-07-2006, 07:07 PM

Its not relevant, touchy subject and it has sqwat to do with us.

I think its a big no.

red_hotxr6 · 29-07-2006, 07:13 PM

I have foxtex and i watch this a lot.As far as i can understand Israel and Hezbollah, after 18 years had some kind of truce/peace treaty. Hezbollah took it upon themselves to kidnap 2 Israeli soldiers, thereby breaking the treaty. Israel has now retaliated destroying Lebanon, the Hezbollah dont seem to care that this has happened in a country that is not theirs or they dont want peace or they dont even want to hand back the 2 men that they have kidnapped. What i want to vent about is all the the YOUNG KIDS AND BABIES THAT ARE DYING THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, its so sad, so sad

**Polyal** · 29-07-2006, 07:17 PM

mate its alot of crap that we will never understand. its a bad situation that will never be resolved because they are all a bunch of phyco's who brain wash their children so the cycle will continue until someone grows some balls and does something constructive, and we all know the chances of that happening are slim.

red_hotxr6 · 29-07-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its not relevant, touchy subject and it has sqwat to do with us.

I think its a big no.

Well i am sorry sir but i am going to disagree with you, it has everything to do with us.I cant walk past someone being mugged at an ATM, or even an annimal beinng mis treated. Believe it or nnot it is people like you or me that make the difference.

**Polyal** · 29-07-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Well i am sorry sir but i am going to disagree with you, it has everything to do with us.I cant walk past someone being mugged at an ATM, or even an annimal beinng mis treated. Believe it or nnot it is people like you or me that make the difference.

Im not saying I dont care, but seriously, we only see what the media wants us to which is usually a pretty one sided view. Its been going on for ages, for whatever reasons, its a crappy situation that will probably never be fixed.

And seeing someone get mugged is alot different.

And while its nice to think that we can stop a war over there, fact is we cant, and its not our war to fight or resolve. Who are we to tell them how to act?

Anyway....you did ask for a yes and a no, and Im 99.9% sure its going to be a no.

red_hotxr6 · 29-07-2006, 07:30 PM

I am sure you are right.I get the feeling if we girls had a bit more say/control things would be different.

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**Polyal** · 29-07-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

I am sure you are right.I get the feeling if we girls had a bit more say/control things would be different.

:

lol..and the place would be out of control...

Perhaps it can be discussed in the donating members area?

**Falcon Coupe** · 29-07-2006, 07:36 PM

There will never be long term peace in the middle east until either Israel or the country's that hate it are gone, as long as it's neighbors keep sending children in to cafes strapped with explosives, Israel will keep retaliating.
I know the history of Israel is questionable, but i believe it is only defending now.

red_hotxr6 · 29-07-2006, 07:50 PM

Hey Hey, dont start, are you saying that we girls/females do not have the intelligence to rule or act on any given situation.? That we are not capable of ruling or being a head of a country.? If so you better go away and have another think, please.

Outbackjack · 29-07-2006, 07:52 PM

Just to get some out of the square thought happenning, do a google search on the USS Liberty. Then ask yourself if you are surprised about the UN observation post getting hammered. History repeating?

Outbackjack · 29-07-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Hey Hey, dont start, are you saying that we girls/females do not have the intelligence to rule or act on any given situation.? That we are not capable of ruling or being a head of a country.? If so you better go away and have another think, please.

Dont sweat it, just think Maggie Thatcher, Helen Clark..... The Gandi woman, and perhaps we here in Australia might be looking at a female PM within the next 10 years or so..... Go the girls, as long as they are there on merit and not some positive action BS program.

Melz · 29-07-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Hey Hey, dont start, are you saying that we girls/females do not have the intelligence to rule or act on any given situation.? That we are not capable of ruling or being a head of a country.? If so you better go away and have another think, please.

Just think if some of us girls ran the country, the National Spending Bill would be WAYYY up... and thats just on shoes

red_hotxr6 · 29-07-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melz

Just think if some of us girls ran the country, the National Spending Bill would be WAYYY up... and thats just on shoes

Oh please dont get us mixed up with Imelda marcos or whatever her name was.Some of us do have brains.lol

Melz · 29-07-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Oh please dont get us mixed up with Imelda marcos or whatever her name was.Some of us do have brains.lol

hahahaha. I know, its just thats how some of the blokes around view us regardless, so it was my turn to make fun of it.

red_hotxr6 · 29-07-2006, 08:23 PM

Nuff said.

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Jeeepers · 29-07-2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Dont sweat it, just think Maggie Thatcher, Helen Clark..... The Gandi woman, and perhaps we here in Australia might be looking at a female PM within the next 10 years or so..... Go the girls, as long as they are there on merit and not some positive action BS program.

Yeah Bro, I vote Natasha Stott Despoyer or whatever the spelling. Gotta look better than Johnny the Boy....

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MO · 29-07-2006, 10:06 PM

Ppl the only way this thread will survive is if everyone takes a step back and debates from a factual point of view.
Just to clarify the 'WAR' in the middle east has been going on for thousands of years...it will peak and it will subside at various times.

In order to get a lasting peace...all sides will have to disarm and submit to control by an outside authority...e.g. the U.N.

OK lets debate the chances of a peace settlement and what logical and acceptable solution to all sides will ensure this.

**Falcon Coupe** · 29-07-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

OK lets debate the chances of a peace settlement and what logical and acceptable solution to all sides will ensure this.

Three chances, and we all know what they are.............

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ltd · 29-07-2006, 11:34 PM

Agree with outback. Before we get into it I suggest reading up on the history of Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. I did a lot of 3 unit history at school and there is wiggle room on both sides from a perspective point of view. I have formulated my opinion though and I will not share it here until a mod says it's ok (which I doubt), but I will agree that the media are playing one side to be the victims and the others to be the perpetrators. Just goes to show how people like David Koch know sweet FA about anything except their own personal agenda's.

As for getting Stott Despoja to run the country; all this would do is ensure a mass exodus of Aussie's desperately doing anything to immigrate to New Zealand and beyond. No just kidding, Natasha's alright, after all, she was the deputy leader of the democrats that needed an explanation as to how the upper and lower house worked on national TV during election 98. Surely by now she'd know stuff beyond the university union.

red_hotxr6 · 30-07-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

Ppl the only way this thread will survive is if everyone takes a step back and debates from a factual point of view.
Just to clarify the 'WAR' in the middle east has been going on for thousands of years...it will peak and it will subside at various times.

In order to get a lasting peace...all sides will have to disarm and submit to control by an outside authority...e.g. the U.N.

OK lets debate the chances of a peace settlement and what logical and acceptable solution to all sides will ensure this.

But the two sides did have an agreement. One of them broke this agreement, the U.N or/and alot if not the whole world should have condemmed them immediately for doing this.Especially after 18 years of conflict that had just passed between these two.But because of the imcompotence and unwillingness of the U.N to do anything constructive about Hezbollah breaking the agreement, we now have hundreds of innocent civilians dead, mostly because the Hezbollah are using the innocent Lebanese people as cover.Disgusting.

ltd · 30-07-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

But the two sides did have an agreement. One of them broke this agreement, the U.N or/and alot if not the whole world should have condemmed them immediately for doing this.Especially after 18 years of conflict that had just passed between these two.But because of the imcompotence and unwillingness of the U.N to do anything constructive about Hezbollah breaking the agreement, we now have hundreds of innocent civilians dead, mostly because the Hezbollah are using the innocent Lebanese people as cover.Disgusting.

Well said

pauljh74 · 30-07-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

But the two sides did have an agreement. One of them broke this agreement, the U.N or/and alot if not the whole world should have condemmed them immediately for doing this.Especially after 18 years of conflict that had just passed between these two.But because of the imcompotence and unwillingness of the U.N to do anything constructive about Hezbollah breaking the agreement, we now have hundreds of innocent civilians dead, mostly because the Hezbollah are using the innocent Lebanese people as cover.Disgusting.

Thay had a story in the paper showing a Hezbollah soldier in civilian clothes with a rifle. They said Hezbollah moved into an urban area to use as cover for their rocket attacks. The civilians fled. Naturally, the Israeli forces bombed the rocket launchers to neutralise them, now the whole place is levelled. Lebanon effectively has 2 enemies, Israel and Hezbollah.

Outbackjack · 30-07-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

But the two sides did have an agreement. One of them broke this agreement, the U.N or/and alot if not the whole world should have condemmed them immediately for doing this.Especially after 18 years of conflict that had just passed between these two.But because of the imcompotence and unwillingness of the U.N to do anything constructive about Hezbollah breaking the agreement, we now have hundreds of innocent civilians dead, mostly because the Hezbollah are using the innocent Lebanese people as cover.Disgusting.

Israel have been ignoring UN mandates since 1967, perhaps we should start counting the innocent civilians since then. The surrounding states of Israel are not stupid. How genuine are you about peace when you are building settlements on the land that is being used as part of peace negotiations, then settling people there that are from Europe,and others, and have no family or historical connections to the land (and plesae dont use bible fairy tales as a valid connection to this land). Israel have been dong it for 50 odd years, and the whole world has being paying the price. If the UN had any balls, and they dont, they would be enforcing ALL UN resolutions equally, not just the ones that the US backs.

Has anybody read the history of the middle east leading up to 1948?? There are parallels to what is happening today, except the roles are reversed.

Outbackjack · 30-07-2006, 01:54 PM

Sorry for URL blogging, have a look at this

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/un.html

It seems to be fairly accurate, I read about 80% of it and it seems "reasonably" un-biased.

Have a read people. Especially if you consider Israel the innocent good guy in this part of the worlds history. Read it with an open mind, and if you dont beleive something that is said, there are many good books in the library that will either confirm you suspicsions or ellay them (SP?)

Cheers all.

red_hotxr6 · 30-07-2006, 02:00 PM

As far as i understand it, in 2000 when the agreement was made,Israel GAVE up land so that there could be peace as well as giving hundreds of prisoners.What was in the past was in the past,in 2000 these two people reached an agreement.It was broken by Hezbollah,who are being backed by syria and Iran,not ISRAEL.What i can not understand most of all is that the middle east is the centre of all reigious beliefs, and yet the most attrocities are being commited by these people.If any thing these are the people that should not have any weapons/arms at all and be preaching, compassion, love turn the other cheek.

Outbackjack · 30-07-2006, 02:15 PM

Israel gave up land that was not theirs in the first place. In fact NONE of the land that is outside the 1967 borders is considered Israel's by the international community, Israel are occupying it. And most of the people they wrer holding had never seen the inside of a court room.They controll these area's with guns and tanks. Not the action of a state that wants peace.

And you can't write off something as history in this case. Is is history written in the greatest book of fairtales that says this land belongs the Jews. And this is the state of Israels "mandate" for being there.

ltd · 30-07-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Israel have been ignoring UN mandates since 1967, perhaps we should start counting the innocent civilians since then. The surrounding states of Israel are not stupid. How genuine are you about peace when you are building settlements on the land that is being used as part of peace negotiations, then settling people there that are from Europe,and others, and have no family or historical connections to the land (and plesae dont use bible fairy tales as a valid connection to this land). Israel have been dong it for 50 odd years, and the whole world has being paying the price. If the UN had any balls, and they dont, they would be enforcing ALL UN resolutions equally, not just the ones that the US backs.

Has anybody read the history of the middle east leading up to 1948?? There are parallels to what is happening today, except the roles are reversed.

I've read the history of Israel up until 1948, and frankly the Jews were there many years before the Arabs. I suggest reading about what the Arabs have done in their history equally as much as what the Jews have allegedly done.
To give you an idea as to the concessions made by the Israelis, why not research the birthplace of Christ - there is a mosque there now.

It's overly simplistic and a sign of extreme stupidity to try and align the troubles in the Middle East to some anti US propaganda. Frankly, those who hate the USA are the ones who try to perpetrate the Jews as being a race of extremists; and the Arabs as being peace loving, tolerating, respectful and selfless martyrs. What a crock. The fact of the matter is that all of the wars in the last 50 years have involved the Arabs. Every hot spot in the world at the present time involves the Arabs. Are you going to honestly sit there and tell us that we have got it all wrong, and that Israel is to blame for every conflict?
Just as a sidenote, what should Israel do when a new government (Hezbollah) is elected on the promise of annihilating them? Just wait around for it to happen and meantime spend their lives living in fear of extinction? If someone had the same real threat on Australia we would not stand for it, and our allies would be there to help neutralise the threat.

ltd · 30-07-2006, 02:32 PM

Outback, this book of fairytales you speak of, I submit you are alluding to the bible. Not suggesting I agree with you but what about the book/s that suggest the land belongs to the arabs; the quran. Isn't that just a book of fairytales as well?

The history of christianity goes back thousands of years, Islam dates back to 750AD - or just some 1250 odd years ago. Islam was also a break off from christianity, led by the prophet mohammed, who also notes that Jesus Christ was another prophet. Why not get all of the books of the Quran in chronological order, then read it. I guarantee you will have a different perspective of how innocent Islam is. Also, why not look into the history of Spain whilst you're at it, and what the muslims tried to do there.

Finally, before you suggest again that you believe religion is a fairytale, I respectfully submit that in the eyes of others, atheism does not exist, and you (If you're anglo saxon that is) and I are both classified as Jews. Ergo, we too are fair game in the ever so innocent Islam.