RACV pushes targeted P-plater curfews

[vztrt]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ra...711-105m8.html

RACV pushes targeted P-plater curfews

JASON DOWLING
July 12, 2010

FIRST-YEAR probationary drivers caught breaking Victoria's road rules would be banned from driving at night under a proposal by the RACV.

The government is expected to release an update to its Arrive Alive road safety strategy within weeks and the RACV said it should include a curfew for drivers who commit a serious driving offence during the first year of their probationary licence.

Other road safety policies called for by the automobile club include longer periods of impoundment for vehicles of hoon drivers, greater use of alcohol interlock devices for drink drivers and a trial of seatbelt interlocks that prevent a car starting unless a driver's seatbelt is fastened.

Victoria's annual road toll is 10 per cent higher than at the same time last year and is also tracking above the five-year average.

In the past two decades more than 8300 people have been killed on Victoria's roads.

The curfew idea was raised at a road safety round table in Victoria last month, but Roads Minister Tim Pallas ruled out a blanket curfew on young drivers.

"Targeting a specific group in such a way does not guarantee good road safety outcomes and we do not want to punish all young drivers for the stupidity of some,'' Mr Pallas said at the time.

But Mr Pallas did indicate penalties for offenders could soon be strengthened.

''Ideas that had support and may warrant a look are stronger vehicle impoundment sanctions, tougher measures for repeat drink and drug drivers and the wider use of mandatory alcohol interlocks,'' Mr Pallas said.

The RACV is now calling for the targeted curfew to be added to the list.

''If there is a serious offence in the first year of driving then a night-time curfew should be considered because of the risk element,'' the RACV's Brian Negus said. He noted that research showed first-year P-plate drivers ''are more vulnerable, are more at risk at night time than at day-time''.

The RACV is also calling for more pro-active road safety policies including encouraging more supervised driving experience for learner drivers, increasing vehicle safety technology and safer roads.

''We think there should be a concentration on proactive measures firstly to deal with the road toll to place younger drivers especially in a better position,'' Mr Negus said.

Opposition transport spokesman Terry Mulder said the Coalition had an open mind on new road safety measures but wanted to see research to support any new laws.

''We want to make sure these aren't just announcements for the sake of making announcements and trying something new,'' he said.

A state government spokeswoman said last night ''the minister has previously stated he does not support the introduction of youth driving curfews''.

She said the new Arrive Alive road safety action plan would include initiatives to improve young driver safety.

[LTDHO]

Victoria's annual road toll is 10 per cent higher than at the same time last year and is also tracking above the five-year average.

Maybe we need more camera's!

The RACV is also calling for more pro-active road safety policies including encouraging more supervised driving experience for learner drivers, increasing vehicle safety technology and safer roads.

Agreed, looking outside the revenue and towards actually saving lives is a good start, I wouldn't lean so much towards vehicle safety technology, responsibility shouldn't be taken away from the driver. Driver training and safer roads is a must.

[flappist]

Yep, all the young people who work at night can walk or ride pushbikes (much safer).

RACV has been taken over by the wowser element but luckily there is plan.

RACV is a club and therefore like all other clubs (football, golf, car etc) bound by the law.
All of you who are members have a vote as to who runs it and if you are a Victorian and not a member maybe you should join.

Like all clubs it will be split into factions all vying for position. Each faction has an agenda and usually one or two ringleaders.

It will be a couple of idiots who are the problem.

VOTE THEM OUT.

[geckoGT]

Yep, all the young people who work at night can walk or ride pushbikes (much safer).

Or drive within the road laws and not have such a curfew imposed on them (now this is much safer).

In QLD we already have this curfew for P plate drivers under 25 years old that have received a license suspension or good behaviour bond. They have a curfew placed on them for one year preventing them from driving between 11 pm and 5 am and this restriction last for 12 months.

In this situation I do not see a problem, this is a driver that already has a bad record, is considered to be greatly at risk of more bad driving behaviour (disproportionately high compared the rest of the population) and is more likely to behave that way during those hours (according to widely accepted statistics). Why not ban them from driving at these times when they have that form of record?

If they need their license to get to work, or need their license at all, then they can do what the rest of us do and act responsibly and drive carefully within the law and they will never have such a curfew. Pretty simple if you ask me. Personally, if they have that sort of record, then I do not want them on the road, just like I do not want drunk drivers on the road.

It always astounds me that so many get on here and complain that the police are doing nothing to stop hooning, nothing to prevent young deaths etc but when someone suggests something that is likely to do that, everyone complains about that too.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Or drive within the road laws and not have such a curfew imposed on them (now this is much safer).

In QLD we already have this curfew for P plate drivers under 25 years old that have received a license suspension or good behaviour bond. They have a curfew placed on them for one year preventing them from driving between 11 pm and 5 am and this restriction last for 12 months.

In this situation I do not see a problem, this is a driver that already has a bad record, is considered to be greatly at risk of more bad driving behaviour (disproportionately high compared the rest of the population) and is more likely to behave that way during those hours (according to widely accepted statistics). Why not ban them from driving at these times when they have that form of record?

If they need their license to get to work, or need their license at all, then they can do what the rest of us do and act responsibly and drive carefully within the law and they will never have such a curfew. Pretty simple if you ask me. Personally, if they have that sort of record, then I do not want them on the road, just like I do not want drunk drivers on the road.

It always astounds me that so many get on here and complain that the police are doing nothing to stop hooning, nothing to prevent young deaths etc but when someone suggests something that is likely to do that, everyone complains about that too.

Nice soap box.

In that in the state of Victoria "a serious offence" is exceeding the speed limit by more than 3km/h which is not however serious enough to take their license completely this law will really only hurt young night workers who do not live in a city with public transport.

If it is not bad enough to take their license completely why should those who actually want to work in an industry that requires night attendance be discriminated against.

Hospitality, small business, baking etc. are just a few of the industries that our 24/7 society demands. We have to be fair.

Sometimes good people just make mistakes, you of all people, should be very aware of this.

[Fled74]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Or drive within the road laws and not have such a curfew imposed on them (now this is much safer).

In QLD we already have this curfew for P plate drivers under 25 years old that have received a license suspension or good behaviour bond. They have a curfew placed on them for one year preventing them from driving between 11 pm and 5 am and this restriction last for 12 months.

In this situation I do not see a problem, this is a driver that already has a bad record, is considered to be greatly at risk of more bad driving behaviour (disproportionately high compared the rest of the population) and is more likely to behave that way during those hours (according to widely accepted statistics). Why not ban them from driving at these times when they have that form of record?

If they need their license to get to work, or need their license at all, then they can do what the rest of us do and act responsibly and drive carefully within the law and they will never have such a curfew. Pretty simple if you ask me. Personally, if they have that sort of record, then I do not want them on the road, just like I do not want drunk drivers on the road.

It always astounds me that so many get on here and complain that the police are doing nothing to stop hooning, nothing to prevent young deaths etc but when someone suggests something that is likely to do that, everyone complains about that too.

+1. You've hit the nail on the head right there.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Nice soap box.

In that in the state of Victoria "a serious offence" is exceeding the speed limit by more than 3km/h which is not however serious enough to take their license completely this law will really only hurt young night workers who do not live in a city with public transport.

If it is not bad enough to take their license completely why should those who actually want to work in an industry that requires night attendance be discriminated against.

Hospitality, small business, baking etc. are just a few of the industries that our 24/7 society demands. We have to be fair.

Sometimes good people just make mistakes, you of all people, should be very aware of this.

They are not being discriminated against, it is a simple reality, if they don't speed and or commit driving offences, they will retain their license and be able to drive any hour they want. If they do commit driving offence, no matter what they are eventually they will lose their ability to drive at certain times. Big deal, I will not lose a wink of sleep over their plight, perhaps one day they will realise 3 km/h over the limit is not worth the risk.

By the way, exceeding the speed limit by less than 10 km/h is 1 point, considering P plate drivers in Vic are limited to 5 points in the first 12 months and 12 in 3 years, that means they could get busted for 3 km/h up to 4 times in 12 months. To me that is ample if they are than incapable of monitoring their speed safely to lose their license for speeding in the first year, hard luck and get off the road anyway.

Having limitations applied to you because you have a disregard for the laws that apply to all road users is not discrimination and can never be. The choice is simple, if they do not agree to these conditions then don't apply for a license.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

They are not being discriminated against, it is a simple reality, if they don't speed and or commit driving offences, they will retain their license and be able to drive any hour they want. If they do commit driving offence, no matter what they are eventually they will lose their ability to drive at certain times. Big deal, I will not lose a wink of sleep over their plight, perhaps one day they will realise 3 km/h over the limit is not worth the risk.

By the way, exceeding the speed limit by less than 10 km/h is 1 point, considering P plate drivers in Vic are limited to 5 points in the first 12 months and 12 in 3 years, that means they could get busted for 3 km/h up to 4 times in 12 months. To me that is ample if they are than incapable of monitoring their speed safely to lose their license for speeding in the first year, hard luck and get off the road anyway.

Having limitations applied to you because you have a disregard for the laws that apply to all road users is not discrimination and can never be. The choice is simple, if they do not agree to these conditions then don't apply for a license.

You have missed it completely, if they lose their license then they lose their license.

What this law says is:

If you have been naughty but work during the day you can drive to work but if you work at night you are stuffed.

How is that fair?

[SLO AU XR8]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Or drive within the road laws and not have such a curfew imposed on them (now this is much safer).

In QLD we already have this curfew for P plate drivers under 25 years old that have received a license suspension or good behaviour bond. They have a curfew placed on them for one year preventing them from driving between 11 pm and 5 am and this restriction last for 12 months.

In this situation I do not see a problem, this is a driver that already has a bad record, is considered to be greatly at risk of more bad driving behaviour (disproportionately high compared the rest of the population) and is more likely to behave that way during those hours (according to widely accepted statistics). Why not ban them from driving at these times when they have that form of record?

If they need their license to get to work, or need their license at all, then they can do what the rest of us do and act responsibly and drive carefully within the law and they will never have such a curfew. Pretty simple if you ask me. Personally, if they have that sort of record, then I do not want them on the road, just like I do not want drunk drivers on the road.

It always astounds me that so many get on here and complain that the police are doing nothing to stop hooning, nothing to prevent young deaths etc but when someone suggests something that is likely to do that, everyone complains about that too.

Try working at 4am, 25k's away from home, with a restricted licence that doesn't allow you to drive between 11pm and 5am, no public transport runs during those hours! I went through it for 2 simple speeding tickets, both were avoiding hazards.

EDIT: These laws also apply to ANYONE under the age of 25 who has the priviledge of handing over the right to drive, P Plater or not!

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by SLO AU XR8

Try working at 4am, 25k's away from home, with a restricted licence that doesn't allow you to drive between 11pm and 5am, no public transport runs during those hours! I went through it for 2 simple speeding tickets, both were avoiding hazards.

So twice in 3 years you had to travel above the speed limit in order to avoid a hazard and happened to get caught doing it. Considering I do not know of anyone that has ever been caught speeding "avoiding a hazard" (which is a dumb notion, speeding up to avoid a hazard so you can hit it harder), I find it incredible that it happened to you twice in 3 years.

As for your comment Flappist, I'll say it again, if they don't break the law they won't have a problem. Anyway, you can bet there will be opportunity where they will be able to apply for special conditions so that they can get to their place of employment or conduct the activities of their employment if there are not any other options, there always is with driving restrictions.

Sometimes these new laws require just a little more thought before coming out with claims of discrimination and conspiracy theories.

[SLO AU XR8]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

So twice in 3 years you had to travel above the speed limit in order to avoid a hazard and happened to get caught doing it. Considering I do not know of anyone that has ever been caught speeding "avoiding a hazard" (which is a dumb notion, speeding up to avoid a hazard so you can hit it harder), I find it incredible that it happened to you twice in 3 years.

As for your comment Flappist, I'll say it again, if they don't break the law they won't have a problem. Anyway, you can bet there will be opportunity where they will be able to apply for special conditions so that they can get to their place of employment or conduct the activities of their employment if there are not any other options, there always is with driving restrictions.

Sometimes these new laws require just a little more thought before coming out with claims of discrimination and conspiracy theories.

One was a Semi changing lanes, I was level with the cab of the truck at the time, the other was a car sliding towards me on a main road. Both fair reasons to bury the right foot to avoid trouble.

You can apply for the ability to drive if you have the restriction, but it costs to apply, with no guarantee of getting the restriction lifted!

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by SLO AU XR8

One was a Semi changing lanes, I was level with the cab of the truck at the time, the other was a car sliding towards me on a main road. Both fair reasons to bury the right foot to avoid trouble.

You can apply for the ability to drive if you have the restriction, but it costs to apply, with no guarantee of getting the restriction lifted!

I know this will lead into a grand debate but....

If you were beside his cab and he mmoved into your lane you needed to speed up for 2 seconds if that in order to get infront of him?

And a car sliding towards you? You will need to clarifiy it a bit better as to how speeding helps avoid a car in front of you?

You avoid a car sliding towards you by going around it...


Moving onto the law problem, it lies within the attitudes of the younger driver (yes we were all there at one stage, but now I think the attitude is worse and the population has grown so there are more out there on the road at any one given time).
Unfortunately goverments need to be seen doing something.
The cheapest option is to make a law.
It costs more to adjust attitudes and educate people how to behave.

[Franco Cozzo]

I don't like the idea of a curfew, otherwise I don't give a rats ***, if I don't offend, I'll be off P plates in 2014. All you need is a driving offence here in Victoria and they can extend your P1 period by another 6 months.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I don't like the idea of a curfew, otherwise I don't give a rats ***, if I don't offend, I'll be off P plates in 2014. All you need is a driving offence here in Victoria and they can extend your P1 period by another 6 months.

A good outlook you have there. By the way, from what I have read from vic roads they can extend your P plate period by 6 months if you have a bad driving record. A couple of low grade speeding offences does not constitute a bad driving record. Enough speeding offences to lose your allocation of demerit points, hoon offences, alcohol offences and excessive speeding will and therefore result in an extension of your p plate time.

Drive with care and try to stay within the laws and you will be fine.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

A good outlook you have there. By the way, from what I have read from vic roads they can extend your P plate period by 6 months if you have a bad driving record. A couple of low grade speeding offences does not constitute a bad driving record. Enough speeding offences to lose your allocation of demerit points, hoon offences, alcohol offences and excessive speeding will and therefore result in an extension of your p plate time.

Drive with care and try to stay within the laws and you will be fine.

As far as I have seen in Vic, a loss of licence would extend your time on P-Plates. So if you lost it for 6 months your P-plates would be extended for 6 months after you got them back.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by vztrt

As far as I have seen in Vic, a loss of licence would extend your time on P-Plates. So if you lost it for 6 months your P-plates would be extended for 6 months after you got them back.

That is the way I read it too.

[Franco Cozzo]

I think its "bad driving record" as in speeding fines, rather than losing your license in the first place, a mate has a high range speeding offence (18km/h over the limit), It'll be interesting to see if he gets his P2s in the next month.

[geckoGT]

18 over the limit (>10 and <25 km) is only second from the bottom in the range of speeding offences and attracts 3 demerit points. As long as that is all he has and hasn't accumulated 5 points in the first year, the way I read it he will be ok.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

18 over the limit (>10 and <25 km) is only second from the bottom in the range of speeding offences and attracts 3 demerit points. As long as that is all he has and hasn't accumulated 5 points in the first year, the way I read it he will be ok.

Oh ok, I'll still tease him anyway

It will be interesting where P plates go in the next four years, with all this talk about advanced driving courses and advancing P plates as rumours at the moment.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by flappist

You have missed it completely, if they lose their license then they lose their license.

What this law says is:

If you have been naughty but work during the day you can drive to work but if you work at night you are stuffed.

How is that fair?

That's not what this law says...this proposal says - that if you behave in an offensive manner, curfews will be imposed...ie don't drive like a tool.

It's got nothing to do with fair, it's got to do with complying with legislation - as Gecko said, if you don't want to comply, don't apply for a license.

And if you do decide to apply for a license, and act like a tool - you deserve the punishment, and you probably should have thought about that before you decided to act like a tool.

[tranquilized]

I dont see it being much different to drink driving penalties. If your caught over the limit, you loose your license, and for those people who have jobs to get to/drive for, spells big problems. It's this possibility that makes the punishment effective.

[AUIIPURSUIT]

so a fresh uni student, whose just got their license is driving along, their P-plate falls off and they dont notice. Mr blue pulls em over, slaps em the 150 they cant afford and 3 demerit points. then they lose their job at coles stacking shelves cos they cant drive to work at night...

nice idea, but as always, flawed. im all for driver training though. thats where the problem is. the licensing system is a joke. from Ls to Ps.. what have they changed in 10 years.. you need a log book? wow. im sure they are all genuine too.. (i may be slightly wrong, i havent re-briefed the licensing system lately).

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by AUIIPURSUIT

so a fresh uni student, whose just got their license is driving along, their P-plate falls off and they dont notice. Mr blue pulls em over, slaps em the 150 they cant afford and 3 demerit points. then they lose their job at coles stacking shelves cos they cant drive to work at night...

nice idea, but as always, flawed. im all for driver training though. thats where the problem is. the licensing system is a joke. from Ls to Ps.. what have they changed in 10 years.. you need a log book? wow. im sure they are all genuine too.. (i may be slightly wrong, i havent re-briefed the licensing system lately).

At some stage, we really need to stop making excuses for people, and people need to stop making excuses for themselves being less than responsible. Fresh Uni student, just new P plater, it doesn't matter. They have entered the realm of the adult world, and as such, really need to start behaving like adults - the next excuse we'll hear is that their dog ate their P plate or it flew out the window with a gust of wind, and with the way society is going, they'll get away with it.

Enough is enough, as previously mentioned, you accept the rules when you go for your license - if you aren't prepared to accept the responsibility involved - DON'T GET YOUR LICENSE.

[SLO AU XR8]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I know this will lead into a grand debate but....

If you were beside his cab and he mmoved into your lane you needed to speed up for 2 seconds if that in order to get infront of him?

And a car sliding towards you? You will need to clarifiy it a bit better as to how speeding helps avoid a car in front of you?

You avoid a car sliding towards you by going around it...


Moving onto the law problem, it lies within the attitudes of the younger driver (yes we were all there at one stage, but now I think the attitude is worse and the population has grown so there are more out there on the road at any one given time).
Unfortunately goverments need to be seen doing something.
The cheapest option is to make a law.
It costs more to adjust attitudes and educate people how to behave.

Car sliding towards me was out of control, it ended up wedged in a fence. I was in the gutter lane, and had to bury it and just missed getting taken out. Got done by a speed camera.

The truck changing lanes on top of me was similar, I dropped it back a couple of gears, got past the truck, the braked to get back to the limit, Speed Camera got me. Police have discretion as to when to issue a fine, speed camera's DO NOT.

[iliov]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Or drive within the road laws and not have such a curfew imposed on them (now this is much safer).

GeckoGT you never cease to amaze me with you biased closed minded views.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by iliov

GeckoGT you never cease to amaze me with you biased closed minded views.

How is that biased?

As a road user, you are expected (and legally obliged) to follow the road rules set out as per the legislation in the state you live in.

Why should someone who flouts these rules be granted any kind of consideration?

Everyone sees a license as a right - it's not, it's a privilege, and as such, if you drive like a tool - your privilege is revoked, be it by a curfew, or a loss of license, or something else entirely.

[burnz]

why cant vicpol put more speed camera's, they work dont they??

[Falc'man]

All these rules do is infuriate and stress people. Focusing on other values, i.e., basic self respect and respect for others, duty of care, courtesy, etc, would be a far more useful objective. Yes, these aren't relating directly to the road and driving, but thankfully, will influence everything, including the roads and traffic.

The change comes from within the people. Period. No use blaming politicians when the Law states "we get what we deserve". In general, we've been sucked into not caring about what actually MAKES a human.

[SLO AU XR8]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

How is that biased?

As a road user, you are expected (and legally obliged) to follow the road rules set out as per the legislation in the state you live in.

Why should someone who flouts these rules be granted any kind of consideration?

Everyone sees a license as a right - it's not, it's a privilege, and as such, if you drive like a tool - your privilege is revoked, be it by a curfew, or a loss of license, or something else entirely.

In QLD, anyone under the age of 25 who receives a letter in the mail saying they have lost the right to drive for x Months ALSO then cops a year of 11pm-5am driving ban!

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by iliov

GeckoGT you never cease to amaze me with you biased closed minded views.

No problems, aim to please.