RANT - Old people on our roads

[Mont5.0]

several years ago after losing my licence, I had to resit driving test. I had been driving for about 9 years previous. The amount of stuff i had forgotten about/changed, was mind boggling. So yes regular testing for all.

[Fordman1]

Retest everyone......

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

So just because some geriatric manned a machine gun turret in the second world war gives them a free pass to possible kill me wife and child in a 'minor' carpark incident?

Nobody is talking about removing licenses from all elderly people at a certain age, its about facing reality and providing a safe environment for all.

Old people were young once as well, and without them you, your wife or kids would not even be here....so cut them some slack, I have never seen an old bloke come around a corner sideways and fish tail onto the wrong side of the road totally out of controll, but I seen P platers do it twice in about a week, one resulting in a head on collision with an EL Falcon in front of me, which was driven by a guy in his late 30's with his young daughter in the car.

The out of control young bloke destroyed 2 cars one being a Ford and nearly killed a man and his 8 year old daughter, ( not to mention his girl friend who was in the passenger seat the impact put her head through the side window of the car)so I take my chances with the granny traveling at 50k's an hour, they deserve our respect.

What about the young bloke who killed his brother a few weeks back near Milperra who was a passenger in his car when he lost control and rolled it after doing a burn out, the inside of the car looked like it been spray painted red.

The better driver you think you are, the worse in reality you probably are..

Some 5 yearly retesting after about 55 would be a good idea, I will be happy to do it when it comes my turn, and I think it is too easy and too cheap to get a licence in the first place...everyone should be made to ride a motorbike for at least 12 month prior to getting a car licence... that way natural selection will take its toll and it will teach people respect for other road users.

[AUIIForte]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

No it shouldn't work like that.

If people can't drive they shouldn't be on the road, period. It's dangerous and inconsiderate to drive poorly.

If you make exceptions for people it's discrimination.

If they're sitting doing 50km in an 80km in the right hand lane I will politely honk and if they don't move I will overtake and then go slower in front of them. A lot of elderly people don't know the right lane is an overtaking lane (the law was implemented passed their generation I'm guessing?). So in their case it's not been inconsiderate, they're just outdated. Still that's their fault.

We shouldn't have to tolerate their perception on road laws, they study up and keep up to date with the law. It's like anything in this society, it's their responsibility to follow and obey the law.

I'm a P plater, been on the road for 1 year. If I run a red does that mean I should be exempt due to my lack of experience? No same goes for this.

Incapable drivers should not be exempt from the road rules. If anything they should have to display plates so other drivers know to avoid them from a safe distance.

People think slow driving is safe driving. This results in idiots merging onto the Monash at 50kmph, now how is that safe?

EDIT: Yes I am EXTREMELY intolerant of incompetent drivers. The road is no place for mistakes.

100% agree with that. Especially the part about how the elderly should have a plate on their car to 'warn' others.

I was driving up to a roundabout just like everybody else was (I was at the front), and I saw a car (with 2 other cars behind it driving the same direction) coming around the roundabout from the right so I stopped to let it through. But all of a sudden, the car at the front of the pack, going through the roundabout stopped to a halt, even left a little skid mark! The 2 cars behind had to slam their brakes on to avoid hitting the front car and they screwed up the whole roundabout system for a few minutes! When the front car decided to drive out of the roundabout after stopping so abruptly, the driver gave me a very strange look, as if to tell me this was my fault that he stopped...

Who was this? A man that looked about 90 years old with a 90 year old wife sitting next to him!

He stopped because he thought I was going to go through the roundabout! I approached the roundabout ever so slowly too! This was in peek hour driving, so many, MANY people where held up, and I don't know how nobody actually crashed... I call it lucky

[eb_5litre]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Old people were young once as well, and without them you, your wife or kids would not even be here....so cut them some slack, I have never seen an old bloke come around a corner sideways and fish tail onto the wrong side of the road totally out of controll, but I seen P platers do it twice in about a week, one resulting in a head on collision with an EL Falcon in front of me, which was driven by a guy in his late 30's with his young daughter in the car.

The out of control young bloke destroyed 2 cars one being a Ford and nearly killed a man and his 8 year old daughter, ( not to mention his girl friend who was in the passenger seat the impact put her head through the side window of the car)so I take my chances with the granny traveling at 50k's an hour, they deserve our respect.

What about the young bloke who killed his brother a few weeks back near Milperra who was a passenger in his car when he lost control and rolled it after doing a burn out, the inside of the car looked like it been spray painted red.

The better driver you think you are, the worse in reality you probably are..

Some 5 yearly retesting after about 55 would be a good idea, I will be happy to do it when it comes my turn, and I think it is too easy and too cheap to get a licence in the first place...everyone should be made to ride a motorbike for at least 12 month prior to getting a car licence... that way natural selection will take its toll and it will teach people respect for other road users.

And Ive never seen a P-plater forget which pedal was the accelerator and which was the brake in a carpark..... but thats not really the point of the thread is it. The elderly should be tested more than they are. I was always tought that a drivers license was a privelidge not a right.... being elderly or having served in the armed forces should not grant you a free pass.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

And Ive never seen a P-plater forget which pedal was the accelerator and which was the brake in a carpark..... but thats not really the point of the thread is it. The elderly should be tested more than they are. I was always tought that a drivers license was a privelidge not a right.... being elderly or having served in the armed forces should not grant you a free pass.

i have known glenn seton to hit the accelerator instead of the brake (adelaide 92) - anyone can and does do it. unfortunately as you get older, you lose the ability to react in time (although seton did not)
the elderly as with everyone else should be tested more regularly than currently. however, there are alot more people that should not be on our roads than just the elderly. although it is frustrating to hear the news of an elderly person causing an accident (sophi from sydney is a classic example), as others have mentioned, if you take away their license, you may as well take away their life. and unlike the lazy people of today, they have paid a debt to society and get very little in return - maybe freedom is one of the small things they can be granted

i do not know the correct way to fix this problem, but to confine someone to their home is bordering on torture and cruelty. everyone makes errors on the road every day - most of us are just lucky we do not pay the price



on the subject against old people, my 84 year old great aunt many years ago, went to pass a truck in her ap6 valiant. she judged it to perfection. she just knocked her left hand door handles clean off. no marks on the panels - just no door handles. she didn't know she did it either

[Hunter]

Yeah the old farts are bad but as said, P platers as bad if not worse. Old people generally aren't driving like homicidal maniacs, just badly. On the other hand I frequently encounter P platers who drive like bloody psychopaths hell bent on killing anyone who dares to drive at the speed limit. Fortunately QLD has passed legislation requiring P platers display their plates which makes identifying them a bit easier (assuming they follow the law and put their plates on).

I think its funny how they follow the law as far as putting their P plate on but then go on to break numerous other road rules and drive far too quickly... :

Yes I agree old farts SHOULD be tested at regular intervals BUT I think everyone should be made to take at least a paper driving test every 3 years.

I don't profess to know the road rules in QLD to the letter but I make a point of following as many rules as possible because if you're involved in an accident and there's even a HINT of you breaking the law AND it comes down to the facts you could be screwed.

[watejs06]

on the way home a few days ago in the GTP. waiting at the set of lights (i was going straight) the right turning lane went green and everyone started to move off. i was watching in the drivers mirror and saw this camery comming very close to my pride and joy, to cut a long story short the old blokes mirror hit mine and shattered the glass, and scratched the paint on the back, drove passed him and he was oblivious to the fact that he was also missing a mirror .

i agree with adopting the pilots license idea it think that that would solve a few road dramas.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

100% agree with that. Especially the part about how the elderly should have a plate on their car to 'warn' others.

I was driving up to a roundabout just like everybody else was (I was at the front), and I saw a car (with 2 other cars behind it driving the same direction) coming around the roundabout from the right so I stopped to let it through. But all of a sudden, the car at the front of the pack, going through the roundabout stopped to a halt, even left a little skid mark! The 2 cars behind had to slam their brakes on to avoid hitting the front car and they screwed up the whole roundabout system for a few minutes! When the front car decided to drive out of the roundabout after stopping so abruptly, the driver gave me a very strange look, as if to tell me this was my fault that he stopped...

Who was this? A man that looked about 90 years old with a 90 year old wife sitting next to him!

He stopped because he thought I was going to go through the roundabout! I approached the roundabout ever so slowly too! This was in peek hour driving, so many, MANY people where held up, and I don't know how nobody actually crashed... I call it lucky

I was going through a roundabout a couple of years ago, and the car approaching from my left looked as though it was stopping. It was certainly slowing down. Next thing he went straight into me. Said he didnt see me because of his 'A' pillar blocking his vision.

Now if I'm going through a roundabout and someones approaching from the left but not stopped, I keep an eye on them and if necessary I slow down just to make sure they have seen me and they're stopping.

I can't say in your situation this was the case as I wasnt there, but it does seem as though the oldies weren't sure you were going to stop. If they weren't sure, I say they did the right thing by stopping.

Conversely if you were completely stopped before they stopped, then I agree that they are probably out of touch with driving.

But then many weekend drivers, also occasionally some weekday drivers not to mention taxi drivers, are out of touch anyway, not just old ones.

[GasoLane]

ROFL. When I was 21 anyone over 30 was OLD!!

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

So just because some geriatric manned a machine gun turret in the second world war gives them a free pass to possible kill me wife and child in a 'minor' carpark incident?

Seems to work for the young ones. How many deaths have been caused by older folk compared to young scum bags that are full of testostrone and only have one brain cell? Perhaps we should raise the legal age of driving to 30, no, lets make it 40. Plenty of 30 year olds are only just mature enough to tie a shoe lace.Twice a year I may see some poor old bloke who is a bit doddery that gets in my way. I just give them the space and thank them for thier contibution to the world I live in. Help them when I can. Every day of the week I see base ball cap wearing bogans driving like lunatics. They should be tested every week in my view.

We dont need more rules in this country. Its a NANNY state already.

Freedom is somthing that should NEVER EVER be taken from anyone lightly. Imagine the stress some otherwise perfectly functional old person would suffer coming under the scrutiny of some insesitive twat like you once a year.

And your total dismissal of those who sacrificed is a discrace. Go hang your head in shame.

[eb_5litre]

Feel better now?

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

Feel better now?

Lost for words?

[eb_5litre]

Not at all, I voiced my opinion based on events that happened to me. You arent capable of carrying on the discussion without personal slagging so i'm ending.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

Not at all, I voiced my opinion based on events that happened to me. You arent capable of carrying on the discussion without personal slagging so i'm ending.

Well one day you will be old, I will most likely be gone by then. At that stage some pimple faced know all will be giving you hard time. Taking away your freedom. Enjoy the seeds you have sown.

[eb_5litre]

How old do you think I am?
If you re-read what Ive posted you'll notice i'm bagging elderly people who are dangerous behind the wheel ie geriatrics (elderly people that suffer age related illnesses/diseases). And I take offence to being told I dont respect war veterans when in fact I do.... but i'm not about to give them a license to kill in repayment for their services. Its not good enough to wait for someone to die or be severly injured before ones license is taken away.
Same rules for everybody.... if you cant pass a simple test then you dont get a license.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

How old do you think I am?
If you re-read what Ive posted you'll notice i'm bagging elderly people who are dangerous behind the wheel ie geriatrics (elderly people that suffer age related illnesses/diseases). And I take offence to being told I dont respect war veterans when in fact I do.... but i'm not about to give them a license to kill in repayment for their services. Its not good enough to wait for someone to die or be severly injured before ones license is taken away.
Same rules for everybody.... if you cant pass a simple test then you dont get a license.

Your right mate, prevention is better than cure. Give no one a license then we are all safe.

You are discriminating against old peolple. All are guilty of being senile until proven otherwise. According to you that is.

[eb_5litre]

Your reading into it whatever you like.... pointless continuing.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

Your reading into it whatever you like.... pointless continuing.

No its not. In our legal system your supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. What you stand for is if you are young and act like a twat the law needs to prove it. If you are old you have to prove your not guilty once a year.

Not fair really is it?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

You are discriminating against old peolple. All are guilty of being senile until proven otherwise. According to you that is.

Um but doesn't it work the other way with younger people? I mean, I couldn't legally get behind the wheel until I was 16, and nowadays you need at least 1 year (in QLD at least) on your L plates before you're allowed to drive by yourself.

I'm 26 now so it doesn't bother me but I think its a bit rich to say its wrong because its discrimination when it works the other way as well. Lots of things in life are based around age.

What about APIA who only insure 'older drivers'? Or Fernwood who won't let blokes into their gym?

As you get older your body slowly degenerates, its a fact of life. Testing old people every so often should not be a problem - if they're fit they can drive, if they're not, they don't.

Same happens with young kids. How many young blokes have gone for their license and failed it? It costs a fortune to go for the tests these days so they go through a hell of a lot of worry too...

I passed mine first go but jeez even back then it was about $150 I think to take the test.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Um but doesn't it work the other way with younger people? I mean, I couldn't legally get behind the wheel until I was 16, and nowadays you need at least 1 year (in QLD at least) on your L plates before you're allowed to drive by yourself.

I'm 26 now so it doesn't bother me but I think its a bit rich to say its wrong because its discrimination when it works the other way as well. Lots of things in life are based around age.

What about APIA who only insure 'older drivers'? Or Fernwood who won't let blokes into their gym?

As you get older your body slowly degenerates, its a fact of life. Testing old people every so often should not be a problem - if they're fit they can drive, if they're not, they don't.

Same happens with young kids. How many young blokes have gone for their license and failed it? It costs a fortune to go for the tests these days so they go through a hell of a lot of worry too...

I passed mine first go but jeez even back then it was about $150 I think to take the test.

And your point is???

If your trying to say the young are discriminated against then I agree with you.

[Supercharged]

Originally Posted by kenz

I heard on some program a couple years ago the fact that, per capita older drivers have more accidents then the younger crowd its just that there are less of them so it never gets any mention

Correct but it is per kilometre traveled, their accident rate is 3 times that of a driver under 65.

[aussiblue]

WA requirements: see http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/licensing/y...ence/15086.asp

Senior driver licence renewals

A medical examination is required when a driver reaches 75 years of age in order to renew their licence to drive.
A medical examination and a practical driving assessment are required when a driver reaches 85 years of age, to renew their licence. These are required to be taken annually after this point.

What you need to do

The table below details what you will need to do if you are 75 or older and wish to renew your driving licence.

Age What you need to do

75 Complete Senior's Declaration form (M108A) and undertake medical

78 Complete Senior's Declaration form (M108A) and
undertake medical

80 Complete Senior's Declaration form (M108A) and
undertake medical

Every year after 80 Complete Senior's Declaration form (M108A) and
undertake medical

85 Complete Senior's Declaration form (M108A) and
undertake medical andpass a Practical Driving Assessment

Every year after 85 Medical examination and Practical Driving Assessment required annually




Getting ready for an examination with your medical practitioner

Once you reach 75, approximately 12 weeks before your driver's licence is due to expire, you will receive a Senior's Declaration form (M108A) in the post.

You will need to fill in the front page of the form. The rest of it will be completed by your medical practitioner.

Your medical practitioner will make recommendations as to your fitness to and ability to control a motor vehicle safely.

[aussiblue]

Unfortunately the statistics don't lie and the ones here for WA http://www.officeofroadsafety.wa.gov...s1990-1999.pdf and the National ones here http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...f/mrf_2006.pdf give police, politicians and the wider public a statistically and politically valid and justifiable reason to focus on the younger driver.

The stats show the are more likely to be involved in a fatal accident or one involving a serious injury and are ones where speed and alcohol are more likely to be involved. The stats are even more compelling if you group it into the under 40's versus the over 40's as the 30 - 39 year olds are nearly as bad (and in some cases worse) statistically as the 17 - 20 year olds. In any event, pointing the finger at the oldies is a red herring and isn't going to solve the issue.

Note that even if you removed them all the oldies from the road, although it would doubtless save some lives and prevent some injuries, it would just inflate the stats for the 17 to 20 year olds increasing the percentage of the total fatal and serious injury accidents caused by the 17 to 20 year olds. You could argue that the oldies stats actually help make the stats for the younger groups look better.

Yes at 55 plus, I am probably considered an oldy too. I drive a minimum of 40 km daily 6 days a week and my last five accidents over the last 15 years were caused by people (all sub 40 year olds) on mobile phones rear ending me while I was stopped at red lights. So far I have no accident where I was deemed at fault though I will admit that some of the ones I had earlier in my life, though caused by others' bad driving, I would probably avoid these days as a result of being more cautious and being able to better anticipate when other are likely to illegally turn across oncoming traffic, run red lights or pull out from stop signs. Unfortunately, I still haven't figured out a strategy to stop idiots on mobile phones running into the back of me while I am stopped at red lights even when I can see them coming (a cannon pointing out the back of the car is a tempting idea but.....).

My late father drove almost daily until he was 80 and never had a road accident in his life - he handed in his licence voluntarily when he backed into a post in his private parking area. He was driving a EH panel van and the post was obscured from his vision - but after an accident free driving history he took this as sign it was time to quit. I just hope I can do as well as he did.

My observation is that oldies of still of relatively sound body and mind who drive regularly in heavy traffic are fine. It's the ones that only drive occasionally (i.e. only on Sunday), or the same route all the time that lose their skills and self confidence that become a over-cautious, confused or forgetful road hazards.

[eb_5litre]

Gotta love statistics..... all depends on the accuracy of the data being recorded.

[gtxb67]

Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent.
Forfty percent of all people know that.

i would rather share the road with older people though, unfortunately some tragic incidents have been caused by older people - but a lot more have been caused by younger people

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Seems to work for the young ones. How many deaths have been caused by older folk compared to young scum bags that are full of testostrone and only have one brain cell? Perhaps we should raise the legal age of driving to 30, no, lets make it 40. Plenty of 30 year olds are only just mature enough to tie a shoe lace.Twice a year I may see some poor old bloke who is a bit doddery that gets in my way. I just give them the space and thank them for thier contibution to the world I live in. Help them when I can. Every day of the week I see base ball cap wearing bogans driving like lunatics. They should be tested every week in my view.

We dont need more rules in this country. Its a NANNY state already.

Freedom is somthing that should NEVER EVER be taken from anyone lightly. Imagine the stress some otherwise perfectly functional old person would suffer coming under the scrutiny of some insesitive twat like you once a year.

And your total dismissal of those who sacrificed is a discrace. Go hang your head in shame.

Ummmm are you feeling ok?

Seems you have a problem with young folk killing people but when it comes to old people they should get the respect they deserve. Even if it they kill people, respecting them is far more important.

As mentioned in this thread old people are more dangerous than P platers, there's just not as many of them.

I will say the worst drivers are from the P plater group there's a low % but decent amount of them who drive like absolute tards lane hopping in their VN stato's. But I've seen a few old people not so far behind them.

[TUF_302]

Although i dont believe them to be a menace on the road i do watch older drivers more carefully on the road as they are alot slower to react to things and the like, i think its a good idea for them to prove they can still drive saftly on our roads!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Ummmm are you feeling ok?

Seems you have a problem with young folk killing people but when it comes to old people they should get the respect they deserve. Even if it they kill people, respecting them is far more important.

As mentioned in this thread old people are more dangerous than P platers, there's just not as many of them.

I will say the worst drivers are from the P plater group there's a low % but decent amount of them who drive like absolute tards lane hopping in their VN stato's. But I've seen a few old people not so far behind them.

Oh get a grip on reality will you please? THis is getting rediculous in some statements being made ...... and this one really takes the cake!

Prove it! Just prove it and I and the rest will accept it instead of stupid unsubstantiated claims. "Old people are more dangerous than P platers ...... there's just not as many of them!" And then take a breath and say ..... "I will say the worst drivers are from the P plater group ......"

The BIGGEST problem is that ALL P Platers think they are the worlds best drivers and older ..... more experienced people ...... are causing all the deaths on the road .... even though they have driven for 40 years, they have no idea compared to someone with 6 months experience.(yes exaggerating ever so slightly).

YES I agree some shouldnt be driving, but I would see 20 times more twits on the road a week under the age of 40 than those over 70 .......

Read the context JG66 wrote and understand ..........



| [/url] |

[russellw]

We had a look at this data a few months back in the Tech thread HERE where it was clear that a couple of age groups (including the elderly) were disproportionately represented in the fatalities.

However, it is probably better to look at this data based on the actual population spread in our population and thus the data looks like the charts below for the calendar year 2007.

The first is the mean fatality rate for drivers by gender - that is to say it represents the number of people in each age group for each fatality - thus a higher number is better than a low one.



The next is the same data set for passengers:



an the last is for the combined data:



We can thus quickly surmise the following:

1. The risk to male drivers is still highest in the 17-25 age group with the next highest risk being the 70+ although it is still 40% lower than the former.

2. A similar pattern is apparent for female drivers (albeit at lower rates) with the 70+ still being the second highest risk but still 30% lower than the 17-25 age group. Indeed the risk at that higher age is very close to that in the 26-39 age group.

3. Passenger fatalaties tell a different story - the highest risks are still at the 17-25 age group but the difference between genders is much closer regardless of age group and in the 70+ bracket they are both very high with the feamle rate actually being worse.

Cheers
Russ