Australia's Favourite Car

Cuey · 01-09-2006, 04:35 PM

Follow the link to drive.com.au

WOW! Didn't realise how much Falcon and Commodore sales are made up by fleet sales.

Very Interesting Read!

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=19729&vf=12

Redrum · 01-09-2006, 04:59 PM

Disturbing. Fleet segment of market really must push what Holden and Ford stick in their packages.

EF, What else? · 01-09-2006, 05:23 PM

Thats a good post, thanks mate.

But I agree, that is a worrying report. I didn't reliase fleet sales made up that much of sales.

**Grunter** · 01-09-2006, 05:41 PM

Very interesting.

I wonder how much of the fleet sales are made up of individuals whom can make the choice on what company supplied vehicle they purchase, as opposed to rental fleets, Telstra, etc?

turboute · 01-09-2006, 05:48 PM

How many fleet buyers have a choice though? - anyone getting a leased car would be a fleet buyer wouln't they? Most people getting a leased car gets a choice of what car they can get within a price bracket, and alot of these guys would probably get commodores and falcons and make up a significant amount of fleet sales. The reason the other cars do well in the non-fleet sales is because they are cheap and dont cost more to run. If people had a choice I am sure they would rather have a larger/better car, just their finances dictate that they cannot.

**TUF_302** · 01-09-2006, 05:52 PM

Well thats not very good now is it!!

stevz · 01-09-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

But the Commodore's lack of appeal to private buyers is nothing compared with Ford's Falcon. Last year it was the No. 2 selling vehicle in the country but it doesn't even rate in the top 15 favourites among private buyers.

Quote:

The figures reveal that 88 per cent of Falcon buyers are fleet customers, compared with 81 per cent for Commodore

Interesting. If I had a dollar for every time I have read on this forum "But Commodore outsells Falcon because it sells more to fleets" ... or "Falcon sells more to private buyers".... I'd be a very wealthy man.

leanne350z · 01-09-2006, 08:35 PM

This is why Falcons and commodores lose so much value so quickly - fleets.
I for one like it because I will be in the market for a few late model falcons early next year for my small private business fleet. I have never bought a new one yet, could never see the value!
I do feel sorry for the private mums and dad buyers financing their $35K cars over 5 yrs at 40% residual only to find that their cars are worth much less than the end value.
As I said, it is good for me, but I feel sorry for some others.
An interesting read....Thanks

uranium_death · 01-09-2006, 10:11 PM

To combat imported cars, Australia must firstly make its own small car, and secondly, place a quota on imports so that we most importantly support our own industry.
Having our own small car will provide employment for many people.

Simplistic, but the fact that top 8 cars, with many of them being pieces of **** are imported, with none being large cars states that Australia must enter the market in this area, and combat imports to help Australia's economy.

We are heading towards half a trillion dollars in debt...because we produce **** all!
We sell everything to large companies. It doesn't help that third world countries now make most stuff, cutting costs. It's so hard to compete.

Dammit!

uranium_death · 01-09-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leanne350z

I do feel sorry for the private mums and dad buyers financing their $35K cars over 5 yrs at 40% residual only to find that their cars are worth much less than the end value.

Buying private cars brand new I find is a ripoff.

Buying second hand cars is far better.

Brother, from a motor auctioneer (reputable one) in Melbourne got a 2003 VY Commodore Exec with 60,000 kms on clock for 15k (unregistered). It was previously used by a government agency as a fleet vehicle.

The car's clean, runs well (better than the VTII!) and looks nice.

Keep in mind, many of the used fleet cars were stuffed, with damaged interiors and bodies. But this one was clean. We checked the body with a magnet to ensure no dodgy panels had been used and all that.

So that's a viable option.

When I get the money, that's where I'll get my newer cars from.

Buying brand new costs 35 grand plus, and as soon as you drive out of the car yard, it's only worth 31-32 as it is already second hand!

Ruger · 01-09-2006, 11:53 PM

fleet sales make anyone who is looking for a late model second hand car they can keep for a while very happy people.
i paid 14 for a 2 year old falcon ex telstra last year. im only young this car could stick with me for 5 or more years to come this makes it extremely good value and much better than a 6 or 7 year old hatchback.

fleet sales mean a whole lot to the second hand market
generally speaking most familys arent on the market for a brand new base model falcon anyway so it dont suprise me about fleet sales.

plext · 02-09-2006, 12:04 AM

Interesting reading, but I would question the accuracy of the figures.

My Pursuit is classed as a fleet vehicle, simply due to the fact that it was purchased in my company name to maximise tax benefits. It is in no way a 'fleet vehicle' in the common sense of the word, but is very much classed as such in the figures: It's company registered and so is a fleet car, while I have a fleet buyers number from Ford.

I know of at least 5 other vehicles which would be classed as fleet buys when they are in fact personal vehicles. This alone means that it must be a reasonably common occurrence and must surely skew the numbers somewhat.

flappist · 02-09-2006, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Buying private cars brand new I find is a ripoff.

Buying second hand cars is far better.

Brother, from a motor auctioneer (reputable one) in Melbourne got a 2003 VY Commodore Exec with 60,000 kms on clock for 15k (unregistered). It was previously used by a government agency as a fleet vehicle.

The car's clean, runs well (better than the VTII!) and looks nice.

Keep in mind, many of the used fleet cars were stuffed, with damaged interiors and bodies. But this one was clean. We checked the body with a magnet to ensure no dodgy panels had been used and all that.

So that's a viable option.

When I get the money, that's where I'll get my newer cars from.

Buying brand new costs 35 grand plus, and as soon as you drive out of the car yard, it's only worth 31-32 as it is already second hand!

Comrade I feel your angst. Solidarity brother, let everyone else pay the ripoffs while you save your money for more important stuff. Don't worry, there is always someone else to cover you. We don't need a new car industry and all the people employed to make the cars that are such a ripoff don't need a job........
Hey you know you can save heaps on food if you hang around restruants and grab all the leftovers before they are thrown in the bin.
I wonder if the reason that most people buy second hand cars because they can't afford new ones not because they do not want to buy new ones......

Interesting article. Yet another example of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.
Lets see. All the salsac cars are not private, they are fleet. So all the fleets of monaros, XR8s, XR6s, SSs etc that abound in telstra and all the other corporations are not private even though they are driven home every night and used for all private purposes on weekends etc. Yeh that makes sense.

The last car I bought privately was a 1982 laser and I bought it new. The subsequent 50 or so cars I have bought are all fleet. No they are company cars for TAX reasons no other.

This reminds me of the unemploymeny figures. Only 5% unemployed because if you are on one of the 40 bazillion odd pensions, doing a TAFE course on care of fluffy cats or in jail or for whatever reason your free money from the government is not actually called "employment benefits" you are not unemployed.

LIES..... DAMNED LIES.....STATISTICS......bovine excretia.......

02-09-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Comrade I feel your angst. Solidarity brother, let everyone else pay the ripoffs while you save your money for more important stuff. Don't worry, there is always someone else to cover you. We don't need a new car industry and all the people employed to make the cars that are such a ripoff don't need a job........
Hey you know you can save heaps on food if you hang around restruants and grab all the leftovers before they are thrown in the bin.
I wonder if the reason that most people buy second hand cars because they can't afford new ones not because they do not want to buy new ones......

Interesting article. Yet another example of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.
Lets see. All the salsac cars are not private, they are fleet. So all the fleets of monaros, XR8s, XR6s, SSs etc that abound in telstra and all the other corporations are not private even though they are driven home every night and used for all private purposes on weekends etc. Yeh that makes sense.

The last car I bought privately was a 1982 laser and I bought it new. The subsequent 50 or so cars I have bought are all fleet. No they are company cars for TAX reasons no other.

This reminds me of the unemploymeny figures. Only 5% unemployed because if you are on one of the 40 bazillion odd pensions, doing a TAFE course on care of fluffy cats or in jail or for whatever reason your free money from the government is not actually called "employment benefits" you are not unemployed.

LIES..... DAMNED LIES.....STATISTICS......bovine excretia.......

Love your work Flappist!

Your case is a typical example of the type of buyer Ford has. And what amazes me is how on earth people decide to buy a Corolla over a Focus/ Mazda 3 or even an Astra. They are so much better than Corolla yet people are blind to this.

MITCHAY · 02-09-2006, 12:55 AM

I too believe I will never buy a car new and agree with uranium_death .
I could of bought a new car but there is certain advantages buying second hand.

You don't pay top dollar for a car that will drop a stack of value the next year, also if the car has problems the previous owner has more than likely sorted that stuff out for you, the car has usually been run in, and it allows you to be able to pay cash depending on how good you are with saving, even more so if a new model is superceeding the one you're interested in.

My aunty and uncle have never bought a new vehicle. They aren't broke, but are worth quite a bit on paper. Everyone is different.

Aeron · 02-09-2006, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Buying private cars brand new I find is a ripoff.

Buying second hand cars is far better.

People buy new cars because they want choice. I bought my car brand new and not 2nd hand because:

a). I got to choose the options
b). I wanted a car that was built for me (I had to wait for Ford to build it - I felt special

)
c). I wanted a car with low miles
d). I wanted a car with no dings/dents/scratches from a previous owner
e). I wanted a warranty
f). I wanted that "new car" smell
g). I could afford it
h). I didn’t want a car that had been flogged to within an inch of its life

The only advantage to buying 2nd hand, is price. You get the new car, but without my points a). to h).

Im not to bothered with resale value, because I didn’t buy my car to sell it.

MITCHAY · 02-09-2006, 01:04 AM

Aeron just posted the advantages of buying new and he makes a good point. Advanatges and disadvantages go with most things.

If you can hold out long enough you can find an immaculate example of what you want.

Lol my car still has new car smell and it's 3 years old. My mums VT is 6 years old and I last time I was in it, it still had new car smell lol. If you look after a car, it will more often than not look after you. You can tell a lot by the character of the person selling the car whether it's going to cause you problems or not.

Full Spectrum · 02-09-2006, 01:06 AM

Even thought fleet buy plenty of cars alot of people will buy them after they are fleet because most can't afford the new price or if they can afford a XT-Omega for the same price they can get a 1-2 year old XR8-SS.

uranium_death · 02-09-2006, 02:24 AM

Our family is grotty, so after about 3 minutes of sitting in a car, it smells like ****.

That's what you get when your old man wears the same undies for 6 months.

"Yeah, it's June, gotta change them anyway!"

Full Spectrum · 02-09-2006, 03:57 AM

:P
6 months undies i thought i was the only one that bought them

.

Steffo · 02-09-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RATT

Love your work Flappist!

Your case is a typical example of the type of buyer Ford has. And what amazes me is how on earth people decide to buy a Corolla over a Focus/ Mazda 3 or even an Astra. They are so much better than Corolla yet people are blind to this.

If people weren't blind to these things then Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Proton, Daewoo, Mitsubishi etc etc would never sell one car.

merlin · 02-09-2006, 09:11 AM

OK in Mr and Mrs Joe Bloggs mind:

"Hmm I will choose the Corolla due to Toyota resale and reliability - Why the hell would I buy a Focus that will lose its value, fall apart and have no after sales service?"

Hey I don't necessaily like it but this is the way people think and there is no point putting your heads in the sand about it.

For example when I was looking for a medium-large car about 6 months back this was the situation I was faced withlooking for a 3 year old car - a Honda Accord Euro when new was $35K-$40K depending on options. They were going for nothing under $25K 3 years old. A Falcon XT was also roughly $35K when new, I could get a 3 year old one for $14K. See the difference in resale not to mention the Accord has a ****load more equipment and Honda's reputation for reliability.

Once again I would much rather have the Ford in the garage but to me financial decisions (like most people) are based on the head not the heart. Yes people will say the Accord can't tow or isnt as big yadda yadda yadda and I agree but for my set of circumstances this is what suited me. In the end I bought neither and went a totally different route but that is not the point.

Ford if you are listening - quality, quality, quality and for ****s sake build a medium size car to go along with the falcon and compete with the japs.

Stop making apologies and insisting people are stupid.

Steffo · 02-09-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

OK in Mr and Mrs Joe Bloggs mind:

"Hmm I will choose the Corolla due to Toyota resale and reliability - Why the hell would I buy a Focus that will lose its value, fall apart and have no after sales service?"

I would find that people when they shop and buy cars like a Corolla look at it more like this...

Hmm... Toyota Corolla Ascent... 1.8 93kW engine... $19,990. Hmm... Volkswagen Golf 2.0 FSI Comfortline... 2.0 110kW engine... $29,990. They both have air-conditioning, power windows, power steering, central locking etc. They're both similarly sized hatchbacks with similarly powerful engines. Lets save $10k and buy the Toyota.

Except, in 5 years the Corolla is lucky to pull 5k. The Golf will be in the high to mid teens still. Then there is the misconception that Toyota lead the world in quality...

Ford's small cars are fine quality wise. Being a Fiesta owner and having sampled others in its class, I can comfortably say it is lightyears ahead of such appaling pieces of automotive whitegoods as the Yaris. Same deal Focus v Corolla, Falcon v Camry, Territory v Kluger & Prado. And it goes on.

Perceptions are what need altering at this point in time. And people seem to be forgetting that a huge quantity of Echo/Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Avalon etc sales were also fleet. Toyota Australia, like Ford and Holden, survives off fleet sales. Take them away and the new car market would look very different.

QualityCounts · 02-09-2006, 06:03 PM

That's why the export market is so crucial to the viability of our local manufacturers. Toyota is already there, Holden is getting there and Ford should do well with its Falcon and Territory export program.

RPO83 · 02-09-2006, 07:38 PM

Back in the mid 80's GM-H used to proudly advertise the Commodore Executive as a fleet car, Ford used to advertise the fact that the Falcon made an ideal Taxi. The interests of obtaining and keeping private buyers was somewhat neglected in the past and since Australia's heavily protected industry is no longer they have struggled. Ford are on the right track with Territory and their push to make the orion more relevant to the private buyer so its not all bad news.

The only decision made by Geoff Polites that I didn't entirely agree with was to not have a product in the C/D segment. Its a great base to grow private buyers and brand loyalty and it doesn't leave a gaping hole in the line-up.

Abacus · 02-09-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Except, in 5 years the Corolla is lucky to pull 5k. The Golf will be in the high to mid teens still. Then there is the misconception that Toyota lead the world in quality...

I don't think you'll find too many 2001 Corollas for 5K.

uranium_death · 03-09-2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

I would find that people when they shop and buy cars like a Corolla look at it more like this...

Hmm... Toyota Corolla Ascent... 1.8 93kW engine... $19,990. Hmm... Volkswagen Golf 2.0 FSI Comfortline... 2.0 110kW engine... $29,990. They both have air-conditioning, power windows, power steering, central locking etc. They're both similarly sized hatchbacks with similarly powerful engines. Lets save $10k and buy the Toyota.

Except, in 5 years the Corolla is lucky to pull 5k. The Golf will be in the high to mid teens still. Then there is the misconception that Toyota lead the world in quality...

Ford's small cars are fine quality wise. Being a Fiesta owner and having sampled others in its class, I can comfortably say it is lightyears ahead of such appaling pieces of automotive whitegoods as the Yaris. Same deal Focus v Corolla, Falcon v Camry, Territory v Kluger & Prado. And it goes on.

Perceptions are what need altering at this point in time. And people seem to be forgetting that a huge quantity of Echo/Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Avalon etc sales were also fleet. Toyota Australia, like Ford and Holden, survives off fleet sales. Take them away and the new car market would look very different.

I see Toyota as having reliable mechanics, but ride quality, comfort, interior design and all that completely ****house. As I said, Toyotas are the most boring pieces of poo ever. However, they go for a long time, although admittedly, they hardly "go".

I've been in Camry's (I did a monster SBD fart in a Camry in a caryard, got out then closed the door to seal it in) and the ride is crappo, it's tight inside and the interiors and seats are ****house.

Been in Falcons and Commodores...more grunt, nicer interiors, comfortable, lots of space...but as Chris Judd said, "Perception is a funny thing in football, as it is in life, and is something that’s often confused with fact".

Toyotas last, but they're **** to drive. Give me an Australian car built FOR Australians.