Falcon to fly on Mustang platform

Billydean · 17-06-2013, 04:01 PM

I know this has been covered, but this is a very interesting article from 2010.

"Rumours of a end to the Falcon's run in Australia, and perhaps even an end to local production by Ford, were categorically denied yesterday in Detroit by the president of Ford Australia, Marin Burela.

"No company that was going to pull out of Australia would be spending $230 million on bringing the world's best powertrain technology to Australia for the Falcon,""

Falcon to fly on Mustang platform

Trump · 17-06-2013, 04:14 PM

Check the date of that article son.

Billydean · 17-06-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Check the date of that article son.

Check my post .... SON!

Trump · 17-06-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billydean

Check my post .... SON!

My bad. Carry on

Road_Warrior · 17-06-2013, 04:31 PM

A lot can change in 2-3 years. Then again, decent info on the next Mustang platform is hard to come by so I guess we won't really know what similarities there are (or not) until we can eyeball it.

But I'm wondering if they funneled some of that $230 Million from the Ecoboost development into the 2014 Falcon on the sly?

**Dave R** · 17-06-2013, 04:33 PM

I don't find anything interesting about what was said in 2010, obviously Detroit hadn't made any firm decisions regarding the future of Ford Australia, so Burela was just giving the media something positive to say about Ford. I'm sure he knew it was looking grim long term, but you don't tell the media that.

Also look at what he said- "The Falcon's changeover is due to take place at the end of 2014, or early in 2015. Our decisions . . . for Falcon don't have to be made until we get through to the middle of 2011".

It all came together 3 years later.

Road_Warrior · 17-06-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Also look at what he said- "The Falcon's changeover is due to take place at the end of 2014, or early in 2015. Our decisions . . . for Falcon don't have to be made until we get through to the middle of 2011".

It all came together 3 years later.

Well, he was right in that the Falcon was supposed to be game over in 2014, until lobbying put the 2014 update on the table. It's just unfortunate that between then and now, sales have absolutely tanked.

**Dave R** · 17-06-2013, 04:45 PM

Looking back, I don't understand why they put such a huge investment into the EcoBoost Falcon yet never advertised it. They could have ditched the 4 cyl program, spent a tenth of its budget on marketing the existing Falcon range and would have picked up more sales than they did. It seems like Marin actually wanted Falcon to succeed but they went about it the wrong way.

jpd80 · 17-06-2013, 04:57 PM

The thing people have to understand is that the Mustang is not a two door Falcon,
The unique engine set back, two door coupe lines necessitates that the rear seat
be positioned in between the rear wheel wells, not forward of them like the Falcon.
This results in serious packaging changes to not only the rear hip framing but also to
fuel tank, suspension and pick up points, the whole layout of the car is basically
different enough from the Falcon to require a unique frame but sure both cars could
share a lot of engineering from the B pillar forward but still, there would need to be
significant changes.

I went through this exercise with someone attached with the original 2004 S197 Mustang
project, the BA Falcon was considered right from the start but the amount of tear up
and redo required made a clean sheet approach seem far more logical and
unrestrained.

What was pointed out is that it's much easier to develop a Mustang first as it bears
most of the costs and sets the compactness of design required for packaging
that can be expanded to accommodate a four door sedan. So in essence the idea
would be to design the coupe first, cover restrictions and then expand to the sedan...

None of the above should be construed as evidence that Ford is considering a RWD sedans.

tweeked · 17-06-2013, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Looking back, I don't understand why they put such a huge investment into the EcoBoost Falcon yet never advertised it. They could have ditched the 4 cyl program, spent a tenth of its budget on marketing the existing Falcon range and would have picked up more sales than they did. It seems like Marin actually wanted Falcon to succeed but they went about it the wrong way.

I think the 4 cylinder Falcon only got the go ahead as it was the test bed for the RWD application for the Stang. Perfect long term test. Not much to do with saving the Falcon. I dont think they ever cared how many it would sell.

Road_Warrior · 17-06-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

I think the 4 cylinder Falcon only got the go ahead as it was the test bed for the RWD application for the Stang. Perfect long term test. Not much to do with saving the Falcon. I dont think they ever cared how many it would sell.

That's how I've looked at it for ages as well. But I'm still wondering how they could spend the full $230 million on just dropping a 4 pot into the car. Yes you could argue it was for the TDCI Territory as well, but a lot of that work had been done during Gorman's reign.

jpd80 · 17-06-2013, 05:33 PM

In fairness, the $230 million covered SZ and FGII upgrades as well as TDCI V6 engine, Ecoboost I-4 and EcoLPI.

stang65 · 17-06-2013, 05:39 PM

really title reads like something out of a Tabloid and gives false hope......

malazn mafia · 17-06-2013, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The thing people have to understand is that the Mustang is not a two door Falcon,
The unique engine set back, two door coupe lines necessitates that the rear seat
be positioned in between the rear wheel wells, not forward of them like the Falcon.
This results in serious packaging changes to not only the rear hip framing but also to
fuel tank, suspension and pick up points, the whole layout of the car is basically
different enough from the Falcon to require a unique frame but sure both cars could
share a lot of engineering from the B pillar forward but still, there would need to be
significant changes.

I went through this exercise with someone attached with the original 2004 S197 Mustang
project, the BA Falcon was considered right from the start but the amount of tear up
and redo required made a clean sheet approach seem far more logical and
unrestrained.

What was pointed out is that it's much easier to develop a Mustang first as it bears
most of the costs and sets the compactness of design required for packaging
that can be expanded to accommodate a four door sedan. So in essence the idea
would be to design the coupe first, cover restrictions and then expand to the sedan...

None of the above should be construed as evidence that Ford is considering a RWD sedans.

What? The yanks looked at the BA falcon as a donor car for the Stang, or am i reading it wrong? But yes the two cars are chalk and cheese, even just looking at photos. What parts did XK falcon share with the then-current mustang?

FPV GTHO · 17-06-2013, 07:50 PM

They looked at our IRS for SN197 Mustang.

ryeman · 17-06-2013, 09:30 PM

I suspect, looking back, that cheap air fares was a significant nail in the domestic only Falcon.
With nearly 90% of us living in/near the major capital cities, a 'town' car was sufficient and cheap packaged fly/drive for hols.

Crazy Dazz · 17-06-2013, 09:34 PM

Seriously?
It isn't bad enough all the drivel that flows thorugh here from so-called motoring journalists, you have dig up more of their tripe from 3 years ago?

ryeman · 17-06-2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Seriously?
It isn't bad enough all the drivel that flows thorugh here from so-called motoring journalists, you have dig up more of their tripe from 3 years ago?

^^^^being in denial is so sad

Billydean · 17-06-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Seriously?
It isn't bad enough all the drivel that flows thorugh here from so-called motoring journalists, you have dig up more of their tripe from 3 years ago?

Did someone force you to read it, then force you to comment?

Seriously, I sometimes wonder where you people get off, people want to comment, if you don't, go post in another thread.

Gobes32 · 17-06-2013, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

What? The yanks looked at the BA falcon as a donor car for the Stang, or am i reading it wrong? But yes the two cars are chalk and cheese, even just looking at photos. What parts did XK falcon share with the then-current mustang?

The "control blade" IRS that was pioneered in the BA Falcon and has been refined in the FG is going into the next gen Mustang. Ford America engineers felt it was very important for the Mustang to maintain its heritage of straight line speed it had always enjoyed with a live rear axle, but knew that for the car to be accepted on the world stage, like they plan to do with the next update, it would have to handle better than it has in the past. Hence, Ford Australia were the only outpost that had experience with low cost, high horsepower RWD cars, and so engineers evaluated BF XR8's and apparently liked it. The rest is history.

Trump · 17-06-2013, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The "control blade" IRS that was pioneered in the BA Falcon and has been refined in the FG is going into the next gen Mustang. Ford America engineers felt it was very important for the Mustang to maintain its heritage of straight line speed it had always enjoyed with a live rear axle, but knew that for the car to be accepted on the world stage, like they plan to do with the next update, it would have to handle better than it has in the past. Hence, Ford Australia were the only outpost that had experience with low cost, high horsepower RWD cars, and so engineers evaluated BF XR8's and apparently liked it. The rest is history.

Really?

Road_Warrior · 17-06-2013, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The "control blade" IRS that was pioneered in the BA Falcon and has been refined in the FG is going into the next gen Mustang. Ford America engineers felt it was very important for the Mustang to maintain its heritage of straight line speed it had always enjoyed with a live rear axle, but knew that for the car to be accepted on the world stage, like they plan to do with the next update, it would have to handle better than it has in the past. Hence, Ford Australia were the only outpost that had experience with low cost, high horsepower RWD cars, and so engineers evaluated BF XR8's and apparently liked it. The rest is history.

The pics of the Mustang's IRS look nothing like a CB IRS unit. And then there's the alloy control arms...

1TUFFUTE · 17-06-2013, 11:50 PM

forgive my ignorance...but is there a 4 door mustang.....I didn't think so but wasn't certain?
Wonder how keen ford would be at adapting some of the great falcon dynamics, conceptions and ideals and look at making a 4 door mustang.
I mean there already moving into do anything you like territory with mustang by adding smaller engines and so on...so maybe who knows.

FalconXV · 18-06-2013, 08:24 AM

I remember when Mullaly came to Australia to sample the FG, he didn't really give 2 ****s, just made some silly remark about "You could get a speeding ticket quite easily in this thing" ( G6ET) . With that kind of apathy at the top, no wonder it never got a look in.

Gobes32 · 18-06-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The pics of the Mustang's IRS look nothing like a CB IRS unit. And then there's the alloy control arms...

Who knows how much it has changed since they evaluated a BF, that was 6 years ago now. Almost a lifetime in car development cycles.

Gobes32 · 18-06-2013, 11:11 AM

The fact is, up until now, we were the only Ford business that was making high HP RWD cars with a IRS. The Falcon may not be the fastest, best handling car in the world, but you cannot deny engineers have done a lot with what little money flows through here..........

FalconXV · 18-06-2013, 11:15 AM

What a shame GM had the foresight to spawn a pony car off one of their sedan platforms, and look how quickly it overtook Mustang in sales. If Ford had people like Lutz and Reuss, perhaps things would have turned out differently.
Oh well, we have Aussies working on the next Stang, which is something. I wonder if it's time to bring out a next gen IRS system, Control Blade has been out since 1998.

Road_Warrior · 18-06-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

What a shame GM had the foresight to spawn a pony car off one of their sedan platforms, and look how quickly it overtook Mustang in sales. If Ford had people like Lutz and Reuss, perhaps things would have turned out differently.
Oh well, we have Aussies working on the next Stang, which is something. I wonder if it's time to bring out a next gen IRS system, Control Blade has been out since 1998.

Pity the next Camaro is going to ditch the Zeta sedan platform then.

FalconXV · 18-06-2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Pity the next Camaro is going to ditch the Zeta sedan platform then.

Not to Holden's detriment, they'll still be building cars here on a global platform.

FPV GTHO · 18-06-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The fact is, up until now, we were the only Ford business that was making high HP RWD cars with a IRS. The Falcon may not be the fastest, best handling car in the world, but you cannot deny engineers have done a lot with what little money flows through here..........

They have had other RWD IRS vehicles though, such as the DEW98 program which influenced both the AU IRS and SN95 Mustang IRS.