Focus Pinging Issue (again!!!)

[kenny21]

lol yea either a lot of focus have this problem or maybe everyone just hearing something that sounds like wat they wanna hear sorta thing. Maybe its just a shitty exhaust. Easy way to tell just shove some small guy under the bonnet then go thrash it round the streets haha nah jk dont do that

[eXtremist]

Kenny, if you can fit in a f1 replica, I'm sure u can fit under Curly's bonnet.

I get the feeling its poor electrical design combined with lean euro tune. When you move the pedal, I think the ECU is getting the throttle position from the actual throttle instead of the pedal. Now when you WOT from cruising speed, the throttle opens faster than the TPS can read and can't richen up the lean mixture quick enough, and that where you get the ping. Perhaps better grounding could help this?

I also think the injectors or the fuel pump are only just sufficient for the job, or the possible lack of a return line (to purge air out) or bleedback valve. This also explains the problem with starting on hills where all the fuel has drained out of the lines and left the pump high and dry.

I'd like to see a aftermarket higher rating fuel pump installed into a Focus.

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=65958

LS Focus Fault register

[Curly]

Originally Posted by eXtremist

Maybe the question we all should be asking is "Are you sure that's a pinging sound?"

YES it is pinging.

[kenny21]

sorry to go off track but btw extremist its not an f1 replica haha, the exact name of it is a mallock mk31 supersports car. And its more like a le mans car which is a prototype sports racing car.

Anyways umm yea i dont think the throttle sensor is an issue but maybe the fact that with our weather crappy fuel etc etc and when ya do plant it either the injectors are too bl00dy small or crap fuel pump, more likely injectors. Has anyone tried putting bigger injectors in? Cause if ya lean it to buggery and u got avg fuel and the advance is sorta on the line of pinging then it will ping cause the more u lean it off the more chance u giving it to ping.

[eXtremist]

Curly, have you tried running the diagnostic test?

1) Insert Key (do NOT turn it)
2) Press and hold the Trip-Meter Reset Button on the left indicator leaver
3) While holding the reset button, start your car and continue holding the button.
4) When "TEST" is displayed, Quickly let go of the button and press it
5) Pressing the button will now cycle through some 15 different modes.

1. Gauge Sweep
2. Fill in All LCD
3. Indicator Bulbs
4. ROM level
5. NVM level
6. DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)
7. Road Speed MPH
8. Road Speed KPH
9. Engine Speed RPM
10. Fuel Volume
11. Engine Coolant Temp
12. Battery Voltage
13. ABS fail
14. Electronic Brake Distribution Failure
15. Illumination
16. Crank Sense

When you reach DTC, it will display ALL of your recorded diagnostic codes like this DTC#1 XXXX, DTC#2 XXXX.

It flicks through this very quickly, and keeps cycling through them.

Write them all down and come back with the results.

[eXtremist]

Originally Posted by kenny21

correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure that these LS focus is running a knock sensor. Now this should stop pinging thats wat it is there for.

The knock/denotation sensor retards the timing when pinging has been detected, but I dont know if it returns it the the original timing or slowly brings it back to a safe timing where the engine doesn't ping anymore.

Curly, I think ford should be replacing your ECU and knock/denotation sensor under warranty.

Try not go to the same Ford Dealer when you want to carry something out under warranty.

[photn]

Here is an idea.. Maybee its a manufacture fault and Ford arent Recognizing the porblem until they have a solution to it........

lol thats why you buy a german Built Ford. IE fiesta or Xr5t lol.......sorry just had to....

None of the LR's had this problem. how different is the Technology in this one compared to the LR?

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by photn

lol thats why you buy a german Built Ford. IE fiesta or Xr5t lol.......sorry just had to....

Or LR Focus Zetec!!! :evil3:

[photn]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

Or LR Focus Zetec!!! :evil3:

My bad MelbZetec. it totally slipped my mind. my deepest apologies.....a Fiesta, XR5T or LR Focus.....

[eXtremist]

I thought all focus' are made in Germany but assembled in South Africa.

[Curly]

Extremist, We ran the diagnostic test. Our menu was a bit different to what you wrote. We had some extras as well. I wrote most of it down. Under DTC it said "no codes". Do you know what all the other stuff means? Does this test show the version of the firmware we have? Thanks

[kenny21]

[QUOTE=eXtremist]The knock/denotation sensor retards the timing when pinging has been detected, but I dont know if it returns it the the original timing or slowly brings it back to a safe timing where the engine doesn't ping anymore.


once it doesnt sense any more detonation it returns back to original timing. Because it is not an aftermarket thing and its just for a road car they are usually just an on off thing and is usually measured in pascals i think and once it goes past a certain point it retards the timing and then once it drops returns to original table. Even with aftermarket ECU's ie motec they dont have an aftermarket knock sensore because it is so hard to tell what it it picking up. For example Motec are working on a knock sensor atm and have been for a while and because Motec's main market is racing they are finding it hard to cancel out other noises ie gearbox, road noise, chassis noise etc so yea. Sorry if i am babbling on haha.

Btw maybe some of u have noticed i really only mention Motec in regards to engine management systems, this is because they are an australian product and i prefer puplishing good australian products cause we dont manufacture much here in aus. Motec is one of the best ECU and dash combos around on the market. If you want anymore info just ask me or go to motec.com.au

Alex

[eXtremist]

Originally Posted by Curly

Extremist, We ran the diagnostic test. Our menu was a bit different to what you wrote. We had some extras as well. I wrote most of it down. Under DTC it said "no codes". Do you know what all the other stuff means? Does this test show the version of the firmware we have? Thanks

The dealer probably most cleared your codes, or there is something else going on.

1. Gauge Sweep - Self explanatory
2. Fill in All LCD - Self explanatory
3. Indicator Bulbs - Lights up every cluster's bulb at the same time.
4. ROM level - I don't know what this is.
5. NVM level - I don't know what this is.
6. DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) - Self explanatory
7. Road Speed MPH - Self explanatory
8. Road Speed KPH - Self explanatory
9. Engine Speed RPM - Self explanatory
10. Fuel Volume - Value coming from the fuel tanks sensor.
11. Engine Coolant Temp - Self explanatory
12. Battery Voltage - Value coming from the ECU.
13. ABS fail - This will tell you if your ABS has ever had any problems.
14. Electronic Brake Distribution Failure - This will tell you if your EBD has ever had any problems.
16. Crank Sense - Value coming from the sensor.

I've also noticed there is Personality #1,#2,#3, A/D Input, A-S Port which is unknown at this point.

[eXtremist]

[QUOTE=kenny21]

Originally Posted by eXtremist

The knock/denotation sensor retards the timing when pinging has been detected, but I dont know if it returns it the the original timing or slowly brings it back to a safe timing where the engine doesn't ping anymore.


once it doesnt sense any more detonation it returns back to original timing.

AFAIK, if the timing is retarded the engine wont ping anymore because the timing is at a safe place where the pinging will not occur.

Your pretty much saying that there is a time delay from the point it senses the pinging and retards the timming, to the point it returns the timing back to the original state.

[Curly]

The car definately pinged today briefly under heavy acceleration. When we got home we did the diagnostic test again and it still said no error codes. Our test also shows something called DTEM (235miles) and RAFE (38.4mpg)
It's a nifty little trick.

[eXtremist]

The thing is, if your knock/denotation sensor was faulty it would have come up in the diagnostic test.

You should ask ford hook up their diagnostic computer to it, and go for a drive and when it pings, see if the timing retards.

[Piotr]

The ECU once it has detected or thought it has detected pinging will retard the timing and keep retarding until it no longer pings then start returning to normal until it detects again.

[eXtremist]

Originally Posted by Curly

Our test also shows something called DTEM (235miles) and RAFE (38.4mpg)
It's a nifty little trick.

AFAIK thats Distance To Empty and the other is amount of miles to a gallon.

Originally Posted by Piotr

The ECU once it has detected or thought it has detected pinging will retard the timing and keep retarding until it no longer pings then start returning to normal until it detects again.

Exactly!!

[Uni]

would that be recorded in an error code?


Uni/.

[Curly]

Originally Posted by Uni

would that be recorded in an error code?


Uni/.

Pinging itself isn't recorded as an error because ours pings and doesn't get recorded.

[eXtremist]

I know that dangerous pinging on other cars gets recorded in the diagnostic trouble code list.

[kenny21]

detonation is detonation its dangerous lol its just the severity of how much it advances on what throttle pos to how much damage it does

[kenny21]

quik question with all these ppl that are having these issues, can i ask is it doing it when ur on the throttle or when ur lifting off the throttle. Because if u floor it and and lift off the throttle then advance is very high on some cars which gives the impression of pinging, this is to clear the spark plugs and stuff and cause its a high compression engine maybe they have a high advance curve for when u back off to clear its throat.

[Curly]

Originally Posted by kenny21

quik question with all these ppl that are having these issues, can i ask is it doing it when ur on the throttle or when ur lifting off the throttle.

In our case: When you are accelerating. Going up an incline at about 70-90km/h or taking off sharply at the lights when you first put your foot down.

[kenny21]

Originally Posted by Curly

In our case: When you are accelerating. Going up an incline at about 70-90km/h or taking off sharply at the lights when you first put your foot down.

That sounds more like lack of fuel which can cause detonation either something within fuel system ie pump or something or just that the injectors are too small, or to get these good fuel readings they are running it bl00dy lean as buggery.

[Guliver_TwiSt]

yeah, only use 98RON on my focus and have no pinging issues.. It really is the same thing mate, the added milage makes up for the price difference.. Should run on 91 without pinging bla bla bla.. but at the end of the day, they will happily say anything to get you to buy the car.. and now You're Stuck with it, so make the best of it and don't run it on **** fuel, unless ur selling soon

[Curly]

Originally Posted by kenny21

or to get these good fuel readings they are running it bl00dy lean as buggery.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[Piotr]

How about someone actually goes out and gets their car examined by a 3rd party to see if anything can be found instead of trying to come up with causes for the problem.

The conditions you ping under would be during open loop running and they wouldn't be running the cars lean.