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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: melbourne
Posts: 4,649
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Why do people think we are seeing such high prices for houses particularly in Melb/Syd and other capital cities? Interest rates being low by our standards is one major factor.
Texas is actually doing well economically atm yet its median house price is quite low. https://www.zillow.com/ca/home-values/ California on the other hand has always had the highest prices in the US https://www.zillow.com/ca/home-values/ Here is an article on California housing that I believe is a great explanation for what we are seeing in Australia atm. http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2015/f...sing-costs.pdf Thought it may be a good discussion thread considering the impacts if it were to burst and the Feds seem to be making noises about addressing the issue in the next budget. |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Anyone selling up to take advantage of the market or are people still happy to try get in or invest in a second property.
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: melbourne
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Negative gearing is where a loan is used to buy an asset and there is a loss because the income generated is lower than the interest repayments. It's often used to explain a property purchase but it can equally apply to a share purchase or other investment.
It's been with us for a long time. In 2010 there were 1.2 million Aussies with a negatively geared property which is 14.3% of individuals that lodged a tax return owned investment properties while a greater 19.2% of individuals that reported a taxable income owned investment properties. http://blog.corelogic.com.au/2013/05...inancial-year/ Whilst some pressure comes from negative gearing when people speculate on prices going up is it really the driver behind the sharp rises we are seeing? Some more recent info here https://www.businessinsider.com.au/s...the-rba-2016-2 Good article http://theconversation.com/policyche...g-reform-58404 It does provide an incentive for people to invest in property just on balance it seems to me unlikely to be the driver behind the last 4 years price expansion. |
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
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As CoolBFWagon said, the Chinese are a huge country, becoming very wealthy, and they like investing their hard earned in a stable country in bricks and mortar that is safe. Property is very expensive there in their big cities, and Australia is good buying for them.
So Sydney, Melbourne are seeing big inputs of Chinese purchasers. Also, SMSF re now being used to purchase properties which further increases prices. So the older more well heeled are further using negative gearing/SMSF to buy property and cash in on capitals returns, and in effect will have the young slave away to pay for their capital gains, all while getting the young to pay their rents as the young cannot get into property. ![]()
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#6 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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Its a pretty crap situation all round.
One idea I had was governments properly investing/encouraging companies to move to more "regional" areas. It would move people out of the cities to follow the jobs, the cities are big and ugly enough to fend for themselves. Alot of these regional areas have been hit with the industrial down turn and really could do with a spruce up. You then also take some demand for housing from the cities and outlying areas and the market will naturally sort itself out.
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Last edited by Polyal; 19-04-2017 at 02:20 PM. |
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#7 | ||
WT GT
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OK. So 20 years ago I was encouraged by Gov-Co to invest for my own retirement and avoid the public teat. I did so all my life and have done pretty well. Went without on many fronts and invested instead.
Now I'm to blame (as a greedy investor) for the unaffordability of housing and the smashed avocados are being given every advantage Gov-Co can muster... ![]() Go figure. ![]() |
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: melbourne
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Great point Fairmont.
Median house price in Melb is nearing $800k In 2010 it was $465,000. Spectacular return for investors. In 1997, 20 years ago it was $125k. https://www.domain.com.au/news/melbo...170123-gtvh6k/ https://services.land.vic.gov.au/lan...2011Sample.pdf Dam the second link is Victorian median price not quite apples with apples but illustrates the rise. Last edited by zipping; 19-04-2017 at 03:33 PM. |
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
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I don't care, I own my own house and owe nobody nothing.
I know lots of people in Perth who have bought investment properties there and are currently being burnt big time. Most of them thought they were buying a money tree, problem is there's no-one to water it.
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#10 | ||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
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Why the hate towards Negative Gearing?
Without it there would be no financial reason for people to buy investment properties. Who would then provide the properties to service the rental market? The Government? Negative Gearing is basically the governments way of providing housing through private ownership. I know it's easy to blame NG for high property prices, but its impact is minute.
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#11 | ||
^^^^^^^^
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It's the negative gearing + capital gain tax discounts together. Investing is meant to be a risky business, the above policies have pretty much made it as safe as houses (see what I did there) for the past few decades.
Time for a major correction IMHO - driven by sensible policy adjustment. If the above policies were meant to add to the housing supply - they have failed whenever an investors purchases an existing property (i.e. most of the time). If the capital gains tax discount was to adjust for the erosion caused by inflation - why is it still so high whilst inflation is now so low? Housing should be for living in, investors money should be spent on more productive assets. Wonder why the retailers etc are doing it so tough, not employing anyone and generally grinding the economy to a halt? It's because after people pay for rent or their mortgage there's SFA all for anything else. .
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. Last edited by Raptor; 19-04-2017 at 04:38 PM. |
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Pepsicobra, people dont invest in rental properties with a view to earn a steady rental income, they do so to get a capital gain. Being able to negative gear along the way removes a lot of the risk of speculative investing because the taxpayer effectively picks up the tab for managing your cashflow. And when you have limited supply but low barrier to entry, you inevitably end up with demand exceeding supply and price growth.
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#13 | |||
WT GT
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But you may be right nowadays, maybe the focus has swung too heavily on speculation of gain from price increases. |
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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It's in their interests because of the taxes collected. http://www.pitcher.com.au/news/vic-s...property-taxes Literally a transfer of wealth from private to public hands. |
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#15 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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This needs to be scaled back as the market needs a correction. The house prices in my area are rediculous.
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Yes but increasing CGT would impact the stock market greatly I would assume?
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#17 | ||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
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The root cause of the housing affordability problem (and the rest of the economic woes) isn't negative gearing or capital gains related, nor is it about supply and demand. It exists along with the other economic maladies because the banks control the currency and not the treasury. Because as it stands, for every dollar in the form of cash, there are ten more that are credit-derived (any form of bank-sourced credit).
Sound money issued by the treasury and only the treasury (whether it be in the form of physical notes and coins, their electronic equivalent, gold and silver or a combination of all three) wouldn't allow the banks to issue credit hand over fist and fuel a speculators paradise.
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#18 | |||
WT GT
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No no no no ![]() It is entirely about supply and demand. Look at Sid-en-knee - we're full to the gills! There's no more viable land and what is available is down the Hume with rubbish infrastructure. And yet, Gov-Co continues to allow people to settle there - up to 80,000 short-fall of people looking for a dwelling in the city last year. Add that to the existing back-log, plus he fact that there's so much money washing around looking for an investment, and there's your problem. But you can't force people into settling away from where they want to live - that's called China, a command economy. I don't know what the answer is... ![]() |
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#19 | ||
WT GT
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There would be a rush away from housing to equities. That's not necessarily a bad thing but then the price of stocks will rise - not because they are better stocks but because they will be bid up. Dangerous territory.
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#21 | |||
bitch lasagne
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#22 | |||
WT GT
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#23 | ||
Regular Member
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I think a large part of the problem would indeed be supply and demand
Assuming there are around 25 million people in Australia and average household size is about 2.5 people, this means 10 million dwellings are needed If nearly all available rentals are taken then landlords can continue to increase rents, which in turn increases what the rental property is worth, i.e. a property that can charge $500 per week is 'worth' around $500k, putting aside speculation Now assume that all the rental properties are full and the government imports 50,000 extra citizens - they are of course going to be competing in the existing market and so prices go up further On the other hand if the government said 'no extra citizens' and instead fast-tracked some land development, or even unit complexes with reasonable land prices then the pool of properties would increase in size, landlords would be at a relative disadvantage, rents would come down, and so would property values. Also, if land were made available a little cheaper then more people could but heir own home and again less competition for rentals. Certainly where I live on the sunshine coast there is plenty of land within 10 kms of the coast being used for low yield farming and agistment that is certainly not worth $300k per quarter acre, even with roads and plumbing installed... |
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#24 | |||
bitch lasagne
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Quote:
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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#26 | ||
Banned
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please explain,trump
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#27 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
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Quote:
If the local currency was only issued by the treasury, it wouldn't be possible for irresponsible lending to occur and it would severely curtail speculative "investing" simply because the money wouldn't be there for it.
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#28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I do agree credit seems too readily available but banks are really engaged in a form of leveraging the same as they always have. I'm not sure that the leverage formula they use has changed in recent times are they not limited by RBA in terms of their exposure to available cash? |
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#29 | |||
^^^^^^^^
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Quote:
How's the Aussie bank profits and share prices been these past few decades ![]() It's a RORT. .
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#30 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
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- the US government has a declared debt of almost $20 trillion, with other unfunded liabilities running into the hundreds of trillions. - personal debt (in the form of credit cards and other credit instruments like car loans and student loans) is close to $3.3 trillion. - mortgages are running at $8.8 trillion. - corporate debt in the US was $51 trillion last year. You also have to remember, the sub-prime collapse in 2008 shook their housing market to the core, and it is yet to recover. However the debt binge since hasn't flowed into the housing market, it went into keeping the carcasses moving to maintain the illusion of an overall economic recovery. Some sources for your perusal: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/aver...ebt-household/ http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/20/crexi...-trillion.html http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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