April 2015 vfacts - Commodore 6th, Falcon nowhere

[Syndrome]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/352631/c...rs-and-losers/

[new2ford]

Funny that Toyota is only a much smaller player in Europe, well down the list. VAG group (mainly VW) account for about a third of the market and Europeans value reliability too. Go figure.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Funny that Toyota is only a much smaller player in Europe, well down the list. VAG group (mainly VW) account for about a third of the market and Europeans value reliability too. Go figure.

Brand attitudes differ from one continent to another.

[Rob 351]

Great job by Ranger finishing the month top 5 & outselling Commodore.

[mik]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Funny that Toyota is only a much smaller player in Europe, well down the list. VAG group (mainly VW) account for about a third of the market and Europeans value reliability too. Go figure.

Maybe they are a bit more patriotic ?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mik

Maybe they are a bit more patriotic ?

Nobody outside Germany would be patriotic about Germany! I suspect that Europeans also like a car that's nice and engaging to drive, which Toyotas aren't.

If you need cheering up, here's a list with Japanese cars at the bottom:

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/eur...ds-and-models/

or one (almost) without any Japanese cars at all!

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/eur...ng-car-models/

[mik]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Nobody outside Germany would be patriotic about Germany! I suspect that Europeans also like a car that's nice and engaging to drive, which Toyotas aren't.

If you need cheering up, here's a list with Japanese cars at the bottom:

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/eur...ds-and-models/

or one (almost) without any Japanese cars at all!

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/eur...ng-car-models/

mmm , i think the days of pasting germany over naztizm are long gone(but i could be wrong) for most people although a few oldies may still be hurt about stuff as some are here, but most people know where there butter is spread, and i suspect a lot of people on that side of the pond would rather the euros stay on their side of our little orb,

as for toyotas not being engaging(blanket statement) i beg to differ, Toyota GT, AE 86, MR2, CelicaGt, various supra models, UZZ32 active Soarer, Lexus Lfa
im sure ive missed some ,and if we really want open up deck .......

unless things have changed Toyota Corolla has been the worlds biggest selling car for some time.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mik

mmm , i think the days of pasting germany over naztizm are long gone(but i could be wrong)

Holy smoke, you're on the wrong track there! The thought of Nazism didn't even occur to me. The original comment was that European buyers were maybe patriotic, but Europe isn't one country. VW is a German company. What I meant is that VW buyers outside Germany wouldn't be buying the brand out of patriotism to Germany.

There is a bit of country-specific bias. German cars figure strongly as the top sellers in Germany and French cars as the top sellers in France. You have to bear in mind that there are a lot of mechanics in those countries skilled in country-specific brands, so it is very easy accessing cheap service and spare parts for local brands.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mik

unless things have changed Toyota Corolla has been the worlds biggest selling car for some time.

Its been the Focus for the last two years now:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101566962

Until they all start needing new auto boxes anyway

[irish2]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Nobody outside Germany would be patriotic about Germany! I suspect that Europeans also like a car that's nice and engaging to drive, which Toyotas aren't.

If you need cheering up, here's a list with Japanese cars at the bottom:

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/eur...ds-and-models/

or one (almost) without any Japanese cars at all!

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/eur...ng-car-models/

In France there are large quantities of Peugeots and Renaults. In Italy there are a masses of Fiats. I would say there is a certain level of patriotism that left Australia some time ago.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by irish2

In France there are large quantities of Peugeots and Renaults. In Italy there are a masses of Fiats. I would say there is a certain level of patriotism that left Australia some time ago.

That's because those companies are French and Italian. Ford is not Australian.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Funny that Toyota is only a much smaller player in Europe, well down the list. VAG group (mainly VW) account for about a third of the market and Europeans value reliability too. Go figure.

Not only Toyota but pretty much all Japanese brands don't sell as well as here or the U.S.Mazda is also a good example .
VW reliability is better in Europe as most cars sold there are manual thus avoiding DSG issues .
Most people buy widely popular models with good dealership coverage and parts supply that is widely available . Just look at Renault reputation here and in Europe.

[unkey]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Funny that Toyota is only a much smaller player in Europe, well down the list. VAG group (mainly VW) account for about a third of the market and Europeans value reliability too. Go figure.

Toyota is not a European company,thats why the Europeans beat them in Europe,but they are becoming bigger and bigger,and are the worlds number 1 automaker again in 2014.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Top 10 brands in 2015:
Toyota – 64,285
Mazda – 36,348
Holden – 31,853
Hyundai – 30,823
Ford – 21,565
Nissan – 21,847
Mitsubishi – 20,706
Volkswagen – 19,383
Subaru – 13,381
Honda – 12,205
Read more at http://www.caradvice.com.au/352631/c...E96klfwITuh.99

Is it just me or is Nissan now selling more then Ford?

[buggerlugs]

Great effort Ranger. How long since a Ford outsold a Commodore.........

[zilo]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Great effort Ranger. How long since a Ford outsold a Commodore.........

Unfortunately it's also a comparison of locally made being outsold by an import.

Holden need to be congratulated for still selling as many as they are.

[EDManual]

Mazda are not popular in Europe either.
Ford are though!

[burnz]

Top 10 vehicles in April 2015:
Toyota Corolla – 3238
Toyota HiLux – 2789
Mazda 3 – 2365
Hyundai i30 – 2298
Ford Ranger – 2200
Holden Commodore – 2043
Mazda CX-5 – 1868
Volkswagen Golf – 1728
Mitsubishi Triton – 1538
Toyota RAV4 – 1399

Top 10 vehicles in 2015:
Toyota Corolla – 14,910
Mazda 3 – 13,424
Toyota HiLux – 11,327
Holden Commodore – 8780
Hyundai i30 – 8614
Ford Ranger – 8361
Mazda CX-5 – 7996
Mitsubishi Triton – 7500
Volkswagen Golf – 7168
Toyota Camry – 6360

Top 10 brands in April 2015:
Toyota – 15,299
Mazda – 8068
Hyundai – 7210
Holden – 7072
Ford – 5163
Volkswagen – 4572
Nissan – 4188
Mitsubishi – 4077
Subaru – 3052
Mercedes-Benz – 2654

Top 10 brands in 2015:
Toyota – 64,285
Mazda – 36,348
Holden – 31,853
Hyundai – 30,823
Ford – 21,565
Nissan – 21,847
Mitsubishi – 20,706
Volkswagen – 19,383
Subaru – 13,381
Honda – 12,205

[new2ford]

Going through the main countries with car manufacturing that produces locally designed models (as opposed to assembling imported designs):

In Germany the best-selling cars are German
France - French
Italy - Italian
Czech - Czech
Japan - Japanese
South Korea - Korean
USA - American

Australia - Japanese and Korean

China is a bit complex to analyse off the cuff because of the involvement of overseas manufacturers, so I'm not sure if Chinese cars sell more in China than assembled foreign cars or not. It's the world's largest car manufacturer though, followed by EU, USA then Japan.

Sweden, which was famous for Saab and Volvo, looks like it's heading Australia's way. Volvo now has less than 20% of its local market and is being chewed by VW and others. Volvo's production is piddling, smaller than Ford and Holden. When I lived in Europe in 2012 I hardly saw any Volvos. It looks like it's ready to drop off the map, or at least becoming a small niche model.

The big picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cle_production

Most of these are assembling the designs of others. The number of countries producing their own designs is now piddling and of course design and development is now often a multi-national business with many shared platforms.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Going through the main countries with car manufacturing that produces locally designed models (as opposed to assembling imported designs):

In Germany the best-selling cars are German
France - French
Italy - Italian
Czech - Czech
Japan - Japanese
South Korea - Korean
USA - American

Australia - Japanese and Korean

China is a bit complex to analyse off the cuff because of the involvement of overseas manufacturers, so I'm not sure if Chinese cars sell more in China than assembled foreign cars or not. It's the world's largest car manufacturer though, followed by EU, USA then Japan.

Sweden, which was famous for Saab and Volvo, looks like it's heading Australia's way. Volvo now has less than 20% of its local market and is being chewed by VW and others. Volvo's production is piddling, smaller than Ford and Holden. When I lived in Europe in 2012 I hardly saw any Volvos. It looks like it's ready to drop off the map, or at least becoming a small niche model.

The big picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cle_production

Most of these are assembling the designs of others. The number of countries producing their own designs is now piddling and of course design and development is now often a multi-national business with many shared platforms.

Volvo is a native Swedish manufacturer that got sold off but Swedish are still loyal to the brand . Out of top 6 best selling cars 4 are Volvos and they hold 20% of the market . Volvo sold 465000 cars world wide in 2014 more than half of that in Europe. Totaly different situation to Australia.

Origin of cars is difficult to pinpoint these days as parts come from all over the place and are designed and assembled in different countries .
Skoda is a native Czech manufacturer that is now under vag group and uses vag tech on their unique bodies - are those czech cars ?
We don't have native car manufacturing on a large scale but cars like Falcon are as close as we get to it - local design under umbrella of a multinational. Multinationals in view of efficiency prefer world wide models hence the end of local production.
People are loyal to the brands they know but in reality origin of the car might be different to what they believe.
Powerhouse car manufacturing countries like Germany or France are unique and generally hold their own markets with multiple local manufacturers covering every market segment.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Volvo sold 465000 cars world wide in 2014 more than half of that in Europe. Totaly different situation to Australia.

Yet the list I posted shows Sweden's car production for 2014 as 154,173, declining from 301,000 in 2000. Are Volvos also made elsewhere? You're right about the 20% of the Swedish market but that's not exactly market domination.

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Origin of cars is difficult to pinpoint these days as parts come from all over the place and are designed and assembled in different countries .
Skoda is a native Czech manufacturer that is now under vag group and uses vag tech on their unique bodies - are those czech cars ?

I go by whether the car is specifically designed in the country of production. Although Skoda uses or adapts VAG platforms, the cars are Czech designs, not VWs - and wholly Czech manufactured including engines and gearboxes. On balance I'd say they're a Czech car. Nobody would say a Commodore is really an Opel even though it pretty much was through most of its life.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Yet the list I posted shows Sweden's car production for 2014 as 154,173, declining from 301,000 in 2000. Are Volvos also made elsewhere? You're right about the 20% of the Swedish market but that's not exactly market domination.


I go by whether the car is specifically designed in the country of production. Although Skoda uses or adapts VAG platforms, the cars are Czech designs, not VWs - and wholly Czech manufactured including engines and gearboxes. On balance I'd say they're a Czech car. Nobody would say a Commodore is really an Opel even though it pretty much was through most of its life.

In Australia It is generally accepted that Toyota dominates the market with 20% of market share.
Country of manufacture for Toyota Camry is Australia , engine also made here , is it australian car ?
Commodore used widened Opel bodies with US engines (until VE) . That's possible beacause they are both part of GM group. Is commodore australian car?
Skoda is a part of VAG , their brief is to cover value part of the market and they are doing it well ( in Europe ). Fact is only 7% of skodas production is sold in Czech republic and most parts are made in Germany - Czechs still consider is to be a Czech car.
Car country of origin debate can go forever and these days it is very complex and multilayered story.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

In Australia It is generally accepted that Toyota dominates the market with 20% of market share.
Country of manufacture for Toyota Camry is Australia , engine also made here , is it australian car ?
Commodore used widened Opel bodies with US engines (until VE) . That's possible beacause they are both part of GM group. Is commodore australian car?
Skoda is a part of VAG , their brief is to cover value part of the market and they are doing it well ( in Europe ). Fact is only 7% of skodas production is sold in Czech republic and most parts are made in Germany - Czechs still consider is to be a Czech car.
Car country of origin debate can go forever and these days it is very complex and multilayered story.

Yes it is multilayered but there are some clear identifiers. Over the years, Falcon could probably claim more to be Australian than Commodore. Camry might be made here but it's a completely Japanese car with no acknowledgement to the Australian market. Skoda has unique Czech ways of doing things that VW doesn't. I understand that pretty much all of it also comes from CZ not Germany, in fact they supply engines, transmissions etc to VW. So I included the country in the list as one that does its own distinctive brand and it's the biggest selling brand in CZ last time I looked. After that I guess we're down to semantics at 10 paces.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Going through the main countries with car manufacturing that produces locally designed models (as opposed to assembling imported designs):

In Germany the best-selling cars are German
France - French
Italy - Italian
Czech - Czech
Japan - Japanese
South Korea - Korean
USA - American

Australia - Japanese and Korean

China is a bit complex to analyse off the cuff because of the involvement of overseas manufacturers, so I'm not sure if Chinese cars sell more in China than assembled foreign cars or not. It's the world's largest car manufacturer though, followed by EU, USA then Japan.

Sweden, which was famous for Saab and Volvo, looks like it's heading Australia's way. Volvo now has less than 20% of its local market and is being chewed by VW and others. Volvo's production is piddling, smaller than Ford and Holden. When I lived in Europe in 2012 I hardly saw any Volvos. It looks like it's ready to drop off the map, or at least becoming a small niche model.

The big picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cle_production

Most of these are assembling the designs of others. The number of countries producing their own designs is now piddling and of course design and development is now often a multi-national business with many shared platforms.

The Aussie cars apart from Territory are large sedans which are a dead segment. If Ford/Holden built a small car that was reasonably priced it would probably sell ok. And I dont mean Cruze I mean something decent. Ranger was designed here and thats doing well because its what people want.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

The Aussie cars apart from Territory are large sedans which are a dead segment. .

Not so sure its "large" cars that's the issue.
I see plenty of new Klugers , X5's , Range Rovers , Pathfinders and heaps of C class Mercs and MAZDA 6 etc... Coomodore outselling CAMRYand None of these are "small" and they'd all certainly be a handful to manouvre in traffic and small parking spaces - yet they sell like hotcakes.

IMHO its boring cars with average tech and minimal gadgetry that are a dead segment. Unfortunately - Falcon is seen to be very "vanilla" and VERY boring and agricultural and the FORD branding is on the nose as well.

I've still only ever seen 3 new FG X Falcons on the road. A rare bird indeed !

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Not so sure its "large" cars that's the issue.
I see plenty of new Klugers , X5's , Range Rovers , Pathfinders and heaps of C class Mercs and MAZDA 6 etc... Coomodore outselling CAMRYand None of these are "small" and they'd all certainly be a handful to manouvre in traffic and small parking spaces - yet they sell like hotcakes.

IMHO its boring cars with average tech and minimal gadgetry that are a dead segment. Unfortunately - Falcon is seen to be very "vanilla" and VERY boring and agricultural and the FORD branding is on the nose as well.

I've still only ever seen 3 new FG X Falcons on the road. A rare bird indeed !

The majority of cars you mentioned aren't sedans. Commodores aren't selling like hot cakes. They've gone from the clear number one seller to only selling 2000 a month in 6th place and on a steady decline. The rest are not worth mentioning.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

The majority of cars you mentioned aren't sedans. Commodores aren't selling like hot cakes. They've gone from the clear number one seller to only selling 2000 a month in 6th place and on a steady decline. The rest are not worth mentioning.

Point I was making is that people are still buying "large" cars.
Commodore is still selling well in both sedan and wagon and the V8's are driving themselves out the door.
If people were "off" large vehicles and especially thirsty ones, the vehicles mentioned wouldn't even be selling 50 units per month.

[Polyal]

It amazes me how well Toyota do...shows you dont need any sporting credentials to sell.

Imagine if the GT86 had the power the market wants (no doubt it will come).

Imagine if the Corolla had some sort of sporty model....

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Polyal

It amazes me how well Toyota do...shows you dont need any sporting credentials to sell.

Imagine if the GT86 had the power the market wants (no doubt it will come).

Imagine if the Corolla had some sort of sporty model....

Not a Toyota fan by any stretch, but the Corolla is one cracker of a car though. Corners, handles, accelerates and brakes adequately enough for most road conditions (Aurions and Camries are torque steering, tyre squealing, oversteering pigs in comparison) and if I drove any Falcon like I drove the Corolla, it would need tyres every 5,000kms, have shocking brake shudder and no fuel economy. The corolla lasted 50,000 on one set of tyres, only 1 brake pad change, survived being rear ended by a dump truck and still keeps going. No brake shudder, diff whine or weird intermittent faults.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Not a Toyota fan by any stretch, but the Corolla is one cracker of a car though. Corners, handles, accelerates and brakes adequately enough for most road conditions (Aurions and Camries are torque steering, tyre squealing, oversteering pigs in comparison) and if I drove any Falcon like I drove the Corolla, it would need tyres every 5,000kms, have shocking brake shudder and no fuel economy. The corolla lasted 50,000 on one set of tyres, only 1 brake pad change, survived being rear ended by a dump truck and still keeps going. No brake shudder, diff whine or weird intermittent faults.

Hmmm Corrolla , rented one in Adelaide for 3 weeks in 2013 current CVT model. No power ordinary fuel economy handling wa sokay maybe it didnt go very fast was driving it to try and get some sort of economy , did not rate it.

My 2008 Ford Focus TDCI, pads changed at 150000, on my third set of tyres, first 2 sets did 80000+kms before replacement, never had brake shudder,
goes like a train , averages 5.0 litres per 100km, and is now on 202000kms.
Corolla-no thanks I,ll take a FORD!