Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15-01-2021, 04:18 PM   #121
roKWiz
Cabover nut
 
roKWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,572
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretched View Post
I guess they would have to with the Daimler Freightliner eCascadia and Volvo range coming out too. Both Daimler and Volvo are also working together on a hydrogen solution for the long term.
Yeah, they need to adapt to the euro changes I guess but also with CARB banning older trucks from California now they can see the writing on the wall.
__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration
In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752

roKWiz is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 15-01-2021, 05:00 PM   #122
Mechan1k
Moderator
Donating Member1
 
Mechan1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kenthurst
Posts: 40,417
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Brings a wealth of knowledge to the forums and is frequently giving helpful advice. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Always willing to help out with technical information. 
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintey View Post
Alternatives for ICE - E85, ethanol, algal ethanol, biodiesel, algal diesel, fishnchip oil etc etc
For eg, you can get a chip for the good ol Ford inline 6 and run on E85, can be done right now. Makes a difference, Aussie crops/sugar cane, Aussie farmers and Ethanol plants
There's also current development here for Hydrogen as well.
its still a way off ... but it is being worked on feverishly right now.
So that's your future alternative being looking into over the abovementioned other alternatives.
Mechan1k is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 17-01-2021, 10:06 PM   #123
roddy1960
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

I think we all know it's inevitable that the old fossil fuel internal combustions will phase down in the next period of time . For those of us who have never known any different to FF ICE's it's hard to imagine I guess but like everything else change will be gradual so over time we'll just transition as will the car makers that keep building their products .

Kind of happening now .. As each car model is released it's becoming more autonomous right in front of us . Fair enough the engines are largely still IC in 2020/21 but most manufacturers are introducing battery and or hybrid alternatives or suggesting so. Also and the driver aids and features just keep adding in at the same time even with the fully ICE versions . Then as already mentioned there is possible alternate fuel types in the wind.

Makes you wonder how Joe Bloggs will be getting around in 2120 or so though doesn't it ?

Last edited by roddy1960; 17-01-2021 at 10:13 PM.
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 17-01-2021, 10:13 PM   #124
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 48,228
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintey View Post
Alternatives for ICE - E85, ethanol, algal ethanol, biodiesel, algal diesel, fishnchip oil etc etc
For eg, you can get a chip for the good ol Ford inline 6 and run on E85, can be done right now. Makes a difference, Aussie crops/sugar cane, Aussie farmers and Ethanol plants
Remember when E85 was 20-30cpl cheaper than 98?

Now it's consistently $1.85/L - 20-30cpl higher than 98.

Given you use 30% more by volume unless the availability increases and manufacturers started supporting flex fuel applications by government legislation then it's banished to enthusiast performance application only.

The moment Caltex pulled out of it, United jacked the price up massively.

Remember when we had an industry around LPG?
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 19-01-2021, 09:38 AM   #125
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Couldn't agree with this more. Who gets excited by a Camry engine?!

https://youtu.be/DGjFwZZpxS8

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 19-01-2021, 05:42 PM   #126
Ben73
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Ben73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,332
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by kypez View Post
Couldn't agree with this more. Who gets excited by a Camry engine?!
Well, I know someone. As long as it's a V6


I think he made a pretty good point about making all the normal cars electric but still having a few performance vehicles around. I'm sure there will be places where ice cars can drive around for several decades to come. Even if it's just race tracks and other dedicated hobby locations

Last edited by Ben73; 19-01-2021 at 05:47 PM.
Ben73 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 04-02-2021, 03:57 PM   #127
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

The Twilight is starting early. I don't understand this car anymore. Its heavier, slower and the extra complexity. Why bother with it?!

https://www.caradvice.com.au/920269/...0kw-and-800nm/

2022 Mercedes-AMG C63: Four-cylinder hybrid to develop 410kW and 800Nm – report

he next-generation 2022 Mercedes-AMG C63 could extract over 400kW from its turbocharged four-cylinder hybrid system.

According to a report in the February 2021 issue of the UK's Car magazine, the next-gen C63 will produce a total of 410kW of power and 800Nm of torque, thanks to the smaller A45 S's 310kW/500Nm 2.0-litre engine and three electrified elements: a 150kW rear electric motor (operated independently of the gearbox), a starter-generator mild-hybrid system and an electrically-driven turbocharger.

Those outputs are 35kW and 100Nm up over the outgoing C63 S – despite half the cylinders, a move dictated by strict new European CO2 emissions rules – and a staggering 35kW/200Nm over the Mercedes-AMG's closest German rival, the new, six-cylinder BMW M3 Competition.

It's unclear whether those outputs will be produced by the 'base' C63, or a higher-performance S model.

However, the electrified power boost comes at the cost of weight, with the hybrid system reportedly adding 250kg of mass, taking the new C63's kerb weight to a hefty 2000kg – over 400kg more than the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, another of the C63's class and performance rivals.
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 05-02-2021, 06:43 AM   #128
Polyal
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
Donating Member2
 
Polyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,452
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by kypez View Post
The Twilight is starting early. I don't understand this car anymore. Its heavier, slower and the extra complexity. Why bother with it?!

https://www.caradvice.com.au/920269/...0kw-and-800nm/

2022 Mercedes-AMG C63: Four-cylinder hybrid to develop 410kW and 800Nm – report

he next-generation 2022 Mercedes-AMG C63 could extract over 400kW from its turbocharged four-cylinder hybrid system.

According to a report in the February 2021 issue of the UK's Car magazine, the next-gen C63 will produce a total of 410kW of power and 800Nm of torque, thanks to the smaller A45 S's 310kW/500Nm 2.0-litre engine and three electrified elements: a 150kW rear electric motor (operated independently of the gearbox), a starter-generator mild-hybrid system and an electrically-driven turbocharger.

Those outputs are 35kW and 100Nm up over the outgoing C63 S – despite half the cylinders, a move dictated by strict new European CO2 emissions rules – and a staggering 35kW/200Nm over the Mercedes-AMG's closest German rival, the new, six-cylinder BMW M3 Competition.

It's unclear whether those outputs will be produced by the 'base' C63, or a higher-performance S model.

However, the electrified power boost comes at the cost of weight, with the hybrid system reportedly adding 250kg of mass, taking the new C63's kerb weight to a hefty 2000kg – over 400kg more than the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, another of the C63's class and performance rivals.
The Germans are losing the plot, its just becoming to complex. For performance cars just make a choice and stick with one system.

I get hybrids for dailies etc.

Its bad enough maintaining "simple" cars, its going to be costly down the path and IMO humanity has lost sight of longer term ownership of goods in general. This flys in the face of any sustainability BS they boast from corporate.
__________________
  • 2023 Mitsubishi Triton
  • 2017 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
  • 2003 CL7 Honda Accord Euro R (JDM)
  • 1973 ZF Ford Fairlane
Polyal is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 05-02-2021, 11:36 AM   #129
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal View Post
The Germans are losing the plot, its just becoming to complex. For performance cars just make a choice and stick with one system.

I get hybrids for dailies etc.

Its bad enough maintaining "simple" cars, its going to be costly down the path and IMO humanity has lost sight of longer term ownership of goods in general. This flys in the face of any sustainability BS they boast from corporate.
I don't mind how the hybrids plug the gap in torque on certain performance cars but the C63s is more a GT car than a Sports car. It makes little sense to me especially when the average user would only do a few laps of a track day at best.
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 05-02-2021, 12:48 PM   #130
b0son
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,978
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal View Post
The Germans are losing the plot, its just becoming to complex. For performance cars just make a choice and stick with one system.
There is an expectation that the engine be desirable. A 4-cylinder isnt. So they add hybrid tech to crank the power as a marketing compromise.

It's completely logical they would do this. Nobodys going to pay $150k for a 300kW 4-cyl C63.
b0son is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 05-02-2021, 01:03 PM   #131
Falcon SXR8
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Falcon SXR8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,189
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal View Post
IMO humanity has lost sight of longer term ownership of goods in general. This flys in the face of any sustainability BS they boast from corporate.
This 100%, the amount of waste from people wanting the latest and greatest, the whole shift to a throw away society just makes me shake my head. Most people harping on about electric vehicles couldn't give a stuff about the environment, they just want a shiny new toy.
__________________
Had
EB XR8
AU XR8 220 (awsome car )
AU Fairmont
BA MK2 XR6 Turbo
Now
XDUB
Falcon SXR8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 05-02-2021, 01:21 PM   #132
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,192
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

The next C63 has just completely lost it's appeal. People buy it cause it's a loud, brash, V8 powered thug.

Who the hell wants a 4 cylinder hybrid version? Way to completely avoid what the buyer wants.
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 05-02-2021, 01:55 PM   #133
FTE217
T3/Sprint8
Donating Member2
 
FTE217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 15,871
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
The next C63 has just completely lost it's appeal. People buy it cause it's a loud, brash, V8 powered thug.

Who the hell wants a 4 cylinder hybrid version? Way to completely avoid what the buyer wants.
Teslaites
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02
Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16
Daily Macan GTS
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln"
FTE217 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 05-02-2021, 02:04 PM   #134
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTE217 View Post
Teslaites
Why would they want a Hybrid?

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 05-02-2021, 06:50 PM   #135
kmav23
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 542
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Hybrids have a limited market time frame until max 2025.

After that the fall in EV prices, technology improvements with range increasing and widely available charging stations will make hybrids pointless.
kmav23 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 05-02-2021, 07:09 PM   #136
Adamz Ghia
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Adamz Ghia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 1,699
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmav23 View Post
Hybrids have a limited market time frame until max 2025.

After that the fall in EV prices, technology improvements with range increasing and widely available charging stations will make hybrids pointless.
Not in Australia. We don’t have the infrastructure and won’t have it by 2025 to support EV’s. I’m hoping I’m wrong as my fiancé wants a Mustang Mach E when/ if they land here.
Adamz Ghia is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 05-02-2021, 07:13 PM   #137
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 48,228
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
The next C63 has just completely lost it's appeal. People buy it cause it's a loud, brash, V8 powered thug.

Who the hell wants a 4 cylinder hybrid version? Way to completely avoid what the buyer wants.
The average AMG C63 driver has one continuous eyebrow, wears Adidas and has a taxable income consisting of Jobseeker payments.

They won't be buying no 4 cylinder C63
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 06-02-2021, 10:27 AM   #138
Wretched
Render unto Caesar
 
Wretched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,224
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
The next C63 has just completely lost it's appeal. People buy it cause it's a loud, brash, V8 powered thug.

Who the hell wants a 4 cylinder hybrid version? Way to completely avoid what the buyer wants.
Did they really have a choice? The ever increasing regulation around CO2 emissions drives a lot of these choices.
__________________
"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wretched is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 06-02-2021, 04:34 PM   #139
Crazy Dazz
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,883
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by roKWiz View Post
I'm the least convinced person to be praising EV's but I can not see why the mining industry would be any different to say the building industry trialling this.
New houses (and estates) are built all the time away from grid connection at first, all the local trades either have portable generator power, powering their tools or sun power, charging their battery packs.

On a grand scale......

I can see large sun tracking solar arrays set up to charge the fleets of onsite utes simply driving into a charger parking cradle while they swap between fully charged vehicles and depleted charge vehicles.
Won't happen now but as large companies are given incentives to go EV why wouldn't they.
I mean they are saving money cutting jobs with fully automated equipment this would be just another step beyond that especially as most of them would probably like to claim carbon credits.
Using EVs underground would be beneficial, until you consider that behind collapse and flooding, the biggest danger underground is fire, and the majority of fires are electrical.

There's also the matter of inertia. We have to provide Utes, often for a single supervisor to drive short distances as very low speed. I've often pontificated that something similar to a golf buggy would be more than adequate.

A majority of LVs are used on dayshift only, so they could charge overnight, but the reality is that they are literally not even a drop in the bucket.
Until such time as battery powered haul-trucks become viable, there's no real point.

Furthermore a lot of mines are powered by diesel power.

I worked on the project to build what was then the largest off-grid solar power installation in Australia...
And it was a complete disaster, talk about your White-Elephants.
I can only assume that our domestic grid is much more tolerant of dirty power? Or that the amounts being fed in are relatively small? Any time we tried to take the solar farm above about 30% output, it tripped the whole grid.
Needless to say they also wasted millions on sea-container battery-packs, that were complete duds. Last I heard they had given up on those.
We ended up having to expand the Diesel powerhouse to cover, and pay a premium for nighttime power.
Crazy Dazz is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 06-02-2021, 07:53 PM   #140
Sprintey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Sprintey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,349
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

The C63, wow, that's going to make the current V8 ones collector muscle almost instantly.

Might as well go full electric for performance now if not done beforehand.
__________________
I6 + AWD
Sprintey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 06-02-2021, 09:01 PM   #141
Ben73
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Ben73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,332
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
The next C63 has just completely lost it's appeal. People buy it cause it's a loud, brash, V8 powered thug.

Who the hell wants a 4 cylinder hybrid version? Way to completely avoid what the buyer wants.
If they made it a V8 hybrid I could accept it. 4 cylinder is just not right. Something like an AMG needs more than just power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8 View Post
This 100%, the amount of waste from people wanting the latest and greatest, the whole shift to a throw away society just makes me shake my head. Most people harping on about electric vehicles couldn't give a stuff about the environment, they just want a shiny new toy.
You can't consume your way out of environmental issues. Some will try to tell you that you can.
Sure electric cars are better for the environment. But so is not buying a new cars every 5 years. When I was a kid hardly anyone in my family or close family friends bought new cars. Now everyone has one.
Ben73 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 07-02-2021, 10:34 AM   #142
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,169
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

We're not going to cure all the ills of our society by a shift to electric vehicles but
maybe it will serve as the first step in people realising that we don't have to do /buy
the same things our parents and grand parents did.

Wer'e actually at a crossroads where many people now question the need to be part of
the daily grind of commuting to the centre of our cities just to do office work - that's insane.
the whole reason for having a central business district was to position most businesses in
close proximity to make inter office mail, communications and face to face meetings easier.
A lot of that is not required anymore, hasn't been for a while now but the bug has shown
many that working from home is more efficient and actually does everyone else's favor.

Sorry, got off track there but a lot of common wisdom is being challenged with new ways
to do things, it won't suit everyone's needs but may actually add clarity to who needs to
change and who just needs to keep with systems that needs to say, there's no uniform
answer in a country as vast and diverse as Australia.

Electric vehicles are the answer for carmakers drought proofing themselves against
zero emission regulations caused by operation of their products, the green groups
want vehicle owners to get on board and stop polluting the place, governments are
on board because it makes them look good but, there's one group that will wind up
paying for all of this and that's us, the people that can't avoid paying more for everything.

Last edited by jpd80; 07-02-2021 at 10:45 AM.
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 07-02-2021, 12:17 PM   #143
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 48,228
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
Wer'e actually at a crossroads where many people now question the need to be part of
the daily grind of commuting to the centre of our cities just to do office work - that's insane.
WFH is still frowned upon in many sectors, I know our management team is 100% against it, you're coming into the office or you're finding another job.

I'm really keen on Nissan's EV - their ePower range, it has a small 3 cylinder engine that acts only as a generator to charge a tiny battery to power an electric motor.

1300km range, 5 minutes to 'recharge' and the cars are around $30K, they're just not offered in Australia.

Nissan Note e-Power

Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-02-2021, 07:09 AM   #144
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,169
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
WFH is still frowned upon in many sectors, I know our management team is 100% against it, you're coming into the office or you're finding another job.
There's a vested interest in keeping things as they are in terms of maintaining direct control of subordinates, it's a rusted on culture that's hard to shift but for those who do the rewards are great.
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-02-2021, 12:37 PM   #145
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,192
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretched
Did they really have a choice? The ever increasing regulation around CO2 emissions drives a lot of these choices.
Without knowing what their average emissions targets are, and where they sit with them, then I can't answer that. They are bringing a lot of EV's to market, and hybrids though.

But yes, these average emissions targets are going to kill off a lot of good performance vehicles. The Focus RS has already been killed, and the Renault Sport models are heading the same way.

Kind of sucks really. They should provide an exemption for the top performance model in the range, that it's emissions aren't counted against the cap. But that's just my opinion.
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 08-02-2021, 12:57 PM   #146
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,169
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

We’re dealing with a world wide agenda of governments wanting to put ICE vehicles in the mirror as soon as possible, I reckon that all of us will pay for that every which way we turn.
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-02-2021, 01:03 PM   #147
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,192
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
We’re dealing with a world wide agenda of governments wanting to put ICE vehicles in the mirror as soon as possible, I reckon that all of us will pay for that every which way we turn.
It's really going to bite manufacturers in the bum too. ICE vehicles are way more profitable. And it will take many years for that balance to change.

Ford is investing something like $22 billion dollars into EV's. Just think how many new ICE's they could develop with that sort of money. At least 20.
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-02-2021, 01:35 PM   #148
Wretched
Render unto Caesar
 
Wretched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,224
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
Without knowing what their average emissions targets are, and where they sit with them, then I can't answer that. They are bringing a lot of EV's to market, and hybrids though.

But yes, these average emissions targets are going to kill off a lot of good performance vehicles. The Focus RS has already been killed, and the Renault Sport models are heading the same way.

Kind of sucks really. They should provide an exemption for the top performance model in the range, that it's emissions aren't counted against the cap. But that's just my opinion.
The other question would be, is AMG treated as a separate manufacturer to Mercedes themselves? I know that Mercedes has bought them out but are they treated as a separate entity and therefore the average emissions?
__________________
"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wretched is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-02-2021, 03:25 PM   #149
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,192
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretched View Post
The other question would be, is AMG treated as a separate manufacturer to Mercedes themselves? I know that Mercedes has bought them out but are they treated as a separate entity and therefore the average emissions?
Doubt it. Lamborghini comes under the VW banner for example. Otherwise they probably would have been killed off already under average emissions rules.

They would surely have to be under the Mercedes banner. They are Mercedes AMG after all.
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-02-2021, 03:45 PM   #150
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
Doubt it. Lamborghini comes under the VW banner for example. Otherwise they probably would have been killed off already under average emissions rules.



They would surely have to be under the Mercedes banner. They are Mercedes AMG after all.
Though Aston didn't and released that Toyota Aston

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 07:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL