Riddle me this. Stall converters.

[The Monty]

Ok, having just spent the day putting a new stall converter in, I feel myself getting rather confused.
My last converter was a TCI converter. I asked for 3000rpm, he told me he would do one up as a 2500-2800 and that seeing as my car isnt stock, it should push it out to 3000, sent it through, put it in, and it would only stall to 2500. Thats with slicks on a prepped track. On the road it would stall to 2400 and just let loose and end up in smoke.
I thought, ok The conveter might just not be built right.
Anyway, move forward to 6 months ago, and went for a spin in Blackers10 car, discussing stall converters, he has a Red Diamond 2800 stall converter. Foot on the brake, foot on the gas, 2800 no probs, would just sit there, no wheelspin.
So anyway, after he had his car written off, and me going to the drags next week, I thought I might grab his stall off him and put it in mine.
Put it in yesterday, went for a spin.
Now heres the problem.
At 2100-2200 it just goes up in a ball of smoke. There is no way in hell I can get anywhere near 2800.
I cant test it from a standstill and just put my foot into it with no brakes as it also just goes straight to redline.

So why are my stall converters not allowing me to stall up at all?
This stall is a great stall, the car is a hell of a lot more responsive then with the other one, any jab of the pedal in 1st gar the car mostly ends up sideways.
I dont think its a tyre issue, my tyres are quite good.
What am I doing wrong here guys? I have the drags on Wednesday so I can test out how it goes with slicks, but Im really at my whits end with stallies atm.
If it doesnt stall up right at the drags, Im putting a trans brake in it, lol.

[JC]

The stall speed of a converter is not the rpm you can wind it up to before taking off.
Taken from another site:

"A high stall converter is used to obtain maximum acceleration utilising the engines torque and power WITHIN ITS SPECIFIED FLASH SPEED. Once the engines RPM exceeds the flash speed, the stall converter pretty much is only used as a power transmitting device between the motor and drivetrain. Any way, say you have a standard stall converter that drives the car in the standard way, flash speed rated at 1800 RPM. You accelerate using half throttle, and the car will start accelerating away at say 1600 RPM, staying at that RPM. Say you accelerate using full throttle, the car will accelerate away faster but the motor will be doing 1800RPM off the line. Say you hold your foot on the brake and throttle, this converter will only let the engine reach 1800 RPM. Now, lets say you rip this old piece of junk out and slap in a stall converter with a flash speed rated at 3000 RPM (AKA a "3000 grand stally" in slang terms). Say you take off half throttle, engine RPM will reach say 2500 RPM, then say you accelerate full throttle the engine RPM will reach 3000 RPM, the car will accelerate away in the same way as with the lower speed stall, BUT faster."

So, a 3000rpm stall does not mean you can use the brakes and wind it up to 3000rpm, then release and go. It means when you do release, the engine RPM should flash to 3000rpm quicker than with a stock stall converter.

[The Monty]

My concern is more that it would sit and "stall" to 2800 in Brendens car , which would have been great for me at the drags, but in my car it wont. Exactly the same stall, I just have more power and torque.
Why cant I get the same stall speed out of it as him?
And thanks for the info JC, I love to learn about how things work.

[JC]

Originally Posted by The Monty

My concern is more that it would sit and "stall" to 2800 in Brendens car , which would have been great for me at the drags, but in my car it wont. Exactly the same stall, I just have more power and torque.
Why cant I get the same stall speed out of it as him?
And thanks for the info JC, I love to learn about how things work.

Good question, and I don't know the answer, but perhaps you have more power, or your auto is in better or worse condition, your fluid is degraded........etc.

[The Monty]

Fluids brand new, auto is perfectish. I do have more power and a fair whack more torque. Ill see how it goes at the drags, quite interesting on the road though, its very very snappy.

[5.0 ED]

I have a red diamond 3200 converter, and mine will not stall up if the engine doesn't respond quick enough, now that i have it real snappy it'll hit 3000 and stay there, if it snaps up to 2500 then it'll stay at 2500 no matter how much power i put in it.

2ndly the engine management unit effects the stall speed by how much pressure S5 is putting thru, if you have a resistor based shift kit it does lower your stall speed slightly.

[The Monty]

I dont have a shift kit yet, it is all done via the tune.

[Whoosha]

I have a 2800 in my drag car and is spins the rears at 1800.. by launching at 2600 using the hand brake and footbrake together it works fine

[The Monty]

It still pulls through the handbrake at 2200. Might have to give it a tighten me thinks.
So what Im experiencing is quite normal then?
What can I use then to enable me to launch at say 3500rpm at the strip in plce of trying different stalls until one works how I wanted it to?

[5.0 ED]

Yes in tune but you dont exactly no what the computer is telling it, normally on take off the S5 solonoid is held low pressure and when throttle is touched it pulls the pressure high over about a .5second, increasing pressure at the converter, i found with mine that i couldn't get it to stall over 2200 when i first put stall in and had the shift kit installed, and yet my factory stall would stall to 2400 with shift kit, when i removed the shift kit it then stalled higher, and now the throttle is snappy, it stalls higher, you have to get the snap on a converter to get it up. the btr's behave a little different to c series converters from what i have seen.

[5.0 ED]

But yes it does sound like normal BTR stall behaviour

[Whoosha]

Trans brake or big brick
What 60ft have you been able to achieve so far with the old stall?

[Stav]

Blackers car probably had a smaller cam. Our cars with a biger cam would not produce enough throttle response to attain the higher stall speed of a stock engine. We produce more torque ..power at a higher rpm. Thats why the stall speed compared to blackers car cannot be reached.If you had the stock engine it would stall higher.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by Whoosha

Trans brake or big brick
What 60ft have you been able to achieve so far with the old stall?

2.17's. Thats with 3.9's too, which is abysmal. Ill see what I can pull with slicks with this one, I think it will be fine at the drags. Its deffinately great on the street. Just the brand difference has completely changed the behaviour of the car. Where before it was very doughy below 3000rpm, now its very snappy. On the highway, the old stall with the overdrive would slip in and out every 5 seconds, it was very, very anoying. Now it just sits at 2300rpm perfectly.

[Stav]

I think the new stall convertor will make the car faster. I have the same convertor as your old one and below 3000 it does feel a bit doughy until you plant it.If your car is producing great torque at the lower rpm with blackers stall convertor I am not sure if it will be faster down the track but I am swaying towards that it will be.

[azza11]

I would do this, dyno the engine, fill out a stall converter fact sheet, send in converter to Red Diamond and have it redone. Mate of mine did this with his drag car and it optimized the stall. When i had my 4200 stall for a c4 done thats exactly what i did. Also discuss with them, whether a looser or tighter converter will be required. I thought of giving a JMM stall a go.

AZZA

[Stattic]

I still don't fully understand but I'm in the market for one quite soon. My cars making good torque at 2300ish can I expect it to stall to say 3000rpm? Stav and Josh your cams are much more aggressive I don't find my car doughey at all since I got the 3.9s would that mean my stall speed will go higher?

Also just so I know what needs to be done to get a higher stall speed if it won't go as high as you want? Sort of not clear

[Sorted]

I am also having an issue with my TCI 3000 stall :(

It would only stall to 2200 at the drags - my 60 foots were 2.4 :(

Although when i did stomp on it the car gears down and the revs go over 3000........... but i asume thats what a normal BTR auto would do with a std stall when you donwshift as obviously the lower gear, the higher the RPM

I dont have a shift kit fitted either.......

Alough I have stomped on it when it holds the same gear and it does not flash to 3000

[Stattic]

Well I just got the monty's stall in the mail today so I will let everyone know how it goes, his cam is more aggressive than mine although so is stavs and apparently he has the same converter

[prasac]

we have had nothing but drama's with converters, we have a TCE on my brothers Capri, won't go into detail as i know alot of people that have never had a problem, but sent it back twice and over $1000 later was still not fixed. we bit the bullet and sent the converter to the US to have it looked at and fixed by the best in the business, when he cracked it open he wasn't impressed with it to say the least go a Neal Chance converter, they are cheaper than you would think.

[Sorted]

Had a look at the Neal Chance Convertor site - prices are reasonable but I doubt they will do a BTR :(

Tested and confirmed my stall flashs to 3000 only if it gears down......

Now only have to get it to flash to 3000 with foot on brake and not break traction

[azza11]

Somethings wrong, my stock converter stalled up to 1900 rpm the other night. With your cam etc it should stall to at least 2800, maybe seeing you have a spare stallie, send it back to TCI with some dyno sheets and specs and have it re stalled. Much cheaper than buying a new one. Or send it to Red Diamond, they did a stall for me and some mates with my c4, very happy. Also a mate had his drag car stall redone and was something like 350 bucks. Its a capri with glide and clevo.

AZZA

[Stattic]

Umm that's strange lol I've nver heard of a stock converter stalling to 2800 just because. Otherwise why would we buy high stalls?

[terryk]

JC a torque converter is just that, there are several aspects to consider, the static stall, the engine RPM on the shift drop (actual) and max RPM (to determine percentage of slip) let alone your engines torque curve and of course the vehicle use.

Just some comments from my experience.

The converter you fitted is tighter that the one you had, blacker’s deal must of had more torque at that point. There is a lot around comparing apples with apples.

When I upgraded my AUXR8 it was a pig down low, it wouldn't even spin the wheels unless I started with a brakie, but when I was over 3000rpm it would smoke the tyres till I would come of the throttle, the converter was standard. This was because of the bigger cam it lost a bunch of torque down low but over 3grand it took off, it rev’ed like a motor bike. I then got Phil from TCE to build me a converter which was only 10.5in dia, on the brakes it went to 3500rpm and on the drop it is 4200rpm. Also it went from 14.4 to 13.61 with a 60’ time of 1.965 at the drags, of course there some other changes e.g street radial.

When you run it keep an eye on the rpm on the drop and all through the traps and you can then collect some data as to make a decision on the next step rather than a guess.

Terry

[Sorted]

Spoke with TCI and they seem to think it's my cam that's making the stall not work properly....... They said the Hi Stall in my car should stall at least 500 rpm above the STD stall of 2220.....

Anyway TCI told me that I can return my current Hi Stall and they will give me a full refund and supply me with a new Hi Stall made for my car/engine that will stall to 3000 or 3500 - I Just have to pay the difference between the refund and the cost of the custom Hi Stall

Very good after sales service since I bought and have used the current stall in the car since May, 2009.

I need and want my car to stall to 3000 at the lights, no ifs or buts or maybes

[The Monty]

I think the problem is us, not the stall makers. He blamed it on my cam as well, saying it doesnt make enough power or torque down low to load it enough, but you show me a stock dyno of an AU which makes more power and torque under 3000rpm. You wont find one. I think it is actually our concept of what a stall actually does that is the problem here. I think the only way that you will get a stall to do what we want it to, is to get a trans brake or something that will let it hold at 3000rpm in reverse and forward at the same time, and release on launch.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by azza11

Somethings wrong, my stock converter stalled up to 1900 rpm the other night. With your cam etc it should stall to at least 2800, maybe seeing you have a spare stallie, send it back to TCI with some dyno sheets and specs and have it re stalled. Much cheaper than buying a new one. Or send it to Red Diamond, they did a stall for me and some mates with my c4, very happy. Also a mate had his drag car stall redone and was something like 350 bucks. Its a capri with glide and clevo.

AZZA

You will never get a stock conveter to 2800, lol. Even with all my mods, if it will hold still it woll see 1900 only, as thats what RPM the stall is.

[Stattic]

I'm getting the tci converter to around 2500 with the brake and 2700rpm with the handbrake and this is with high pressure tyres on crappy roads. I can imagine it might stall higher with slicks on a track but that's just a guess. Also if I dropped a little tranny pressure I'd probably squeeze a bit out of it, the tyres still chirp between gears so I think I have room to budge in that respect. Overall it's an awesome stall I'm really glad I did that mod

[azza11]

Originally Posted by The Monty

You will never get a stock conveter to 2800, lol. Even with all my mods, if it will hold still it woll see 1900 only, as thats what RPM the stall is.

I never said a stocker would go to 2800!!
My stock converter went 1900 with my engine,its stock apart from pacemakers exhaust and filter.

AZZA

[The Monty]

Sorry. Just reread it then, I had it a little mixed up, hehehe.