Mullaly confirms Falcon and Mustang to share platform from 2016 - Page 9

Dr Smith · 19-01-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

So true. Even if such a decision was true how many within Ford worldwide would know that decision as I type now. Way too few to have leaked out just yet as it would be the highest of the highest brass atm.. And everyone at Ford from Mullaly down knows just how sensitive any comments are based on the past weeks bad press and then subsequent clarifications.

oops got my # of l's the wrong way round, sorry Mr Mulally.

irlewy86 · 19-01-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Which is what?

Did some digging and it was probably Tailor rolled Blanks (TRB) I was thinking of. I was sure there were some news articles a while back about a different body construction process for (around) 2015 that would see some signifcant changes, or I have to lay of the beer and contact sport awhile so my memory can recover.

Did they use TRB in FG?

Road_Warrior · 19-01-2010, 05:17 PM

Wasn't that the same thing that Holden was ****ing about when they released all the VE info at launch? Something about the sheetmetal for the exterior body panels varying in thickness depending on where the strength was needed?

jpd80 · 19-01-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I completely understand the complexities, I was just pointing out some of the basic fundamental hard points are quite similar. Making vastly different top hats work is another matter.

None of this has been decided and it could still be the case that the similarities of the platforms could end and powertrain and technology. Long way before anything definitive is known, even by Ford themselves.

Exactly.
FoA is gutsy just continuing with the E8 platform until 2015, so much can happen between then and now. Trying to work out today what car you will need in five years time has to be the ultimate blind man's bluff.

Me, I'm going to watch the fireworks unfold when the Ecoboost I-4 Falcon starts cutting a swathe through fleet sales coveted by I-4 Camry and 3.0 Commodore.

This gentleman, Austin worked as an engineer on the Mustang D2C platform developed back in the early 2000's and also associated with quite a few FoA engineers at the time:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

I can guarantee you that all of the same alternatives (and more) were on the whiteboard and backed up by more detailed studies around 10 years ago the last time this series of decisions was made that concluded with D2c and S197. As stupid as it might seem, even a FWD/AWD Mustang was considered (but rejected), but the situation was so desparate that any idea was considered. So I understand if there is a sense of panic and discomfort inside Ford right now.

The decision process is not easy. Even if you commonize the two platforms, realizing economies of scale is very tough considering the physical separation of the manufacturing facilities and the uniqueness of a Mustang and a sedan. If there is no other product in the U.S. other than Mustang, then you still have Mustang hemmed into Flat Rock. And there isn't enough volume to bust out and fund a new manufacturing site. Now the news is even worse with Falcon volumes going due south.

I'm also concerned with the ongoing viability of Ford of Australia's PD community. I have a very high regard for them. No PD organization within Ford has done so much with so little on a continual basis. But their workoad can be like a big sine wave due to their remote location, and keeping them busy in a consistent manner is tough.

**Fordman1** · 19-01-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Did some digging and it was probably Tailor rolled Blanks (TRB) I was thinking of. I was sure there were some news articles a while back about a different body construction process for (around) 2015 that would see some signifcant changes, or I have to lay of the beer and contact sport awhile so my memory can recover.

Did they use TRB in FG?

Tailor WELDED Blanks are used in both FG and Territory.

B-Pillar & Long underbody members in Territory, and B-Pillar & decklid lid surround in FG.

phillyc · 19-01-2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

WTF! One article that really doesn't say much (motortrend) and this thread starts to turn negative

:

Motortrend have never been all that positive towards Ford in the states and from what i've read over the years, their forecasting is below par.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Well said Ohio XB. They'll get round to the GRWD once they've sorted the bread & butter out (which seems to be sorting out pretty well). Meanwhile, I'm sure there is plenty happening in the pre-planning stages - if anything the Coyote's compressed development timeline (2 years) gives me hope that Ford can put a GRWD together in record time - especially if they base it off an existing design

:

Ford have always said 2011 is when they expected to be profitable again and GRWD will be back on the agenda. The Coyote's development timeframe was sensational. It certainly does give hope - especially if they base it off an existing design.

phillyc · 19-01-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Me, I'm going to watch the fireworks unfold when the Ecoboost I-4 Falcon starts cutting a swathe through fleet sales coveted by I-4 Camry and 3.0 Commodore.

My concern is camry hybrid, but both should eat the 3.0 Commodore alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

This gentleman, Austin worked as an engineer on the Mustang D2C platform developed back in the early 2000's and also associated with quite a few FoA engineers at the time:

Certainly full of praise for Ford Australia and their engineering staff's capabilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

The decision process is not easy. Even if you commonize the two platforms, realizing economies of scale is very tough considering the physical separation of the manufacturing facilities and the uniqueness of a Mustang and a sedan.

With Focus, this is exactly what they are doing. It will have 80% common parts in the Focus. Further to this, that Focus will be built all over the world AND in possibly 10 models.

phillyc · 19-01-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.Y.Times

A clay model of a future Mustang in Ford's design studio. The company is shifting from trucks and S.U.V.'s to cars.

Thanks for the link. There is still fuel efficiency gains to be made from moving people from F150 type vehicles into a Falcon Ute etc.

What i'm saying is that GRWD doesn't have to detract from fuel economy if that is why they think Ford might not go that way.

Mustang / Falcon / Lincoln will happen. Ford knows that Mustang needs a more modern architecture underneath it. The best way will be to update Falcon.

Mulally knows the benefit of a strong brand and what it stands for. This is why Taurus was resurrected in the states and why it will again be midsized next time around. For the same reason, Falcon will be renewed as GRWD.

jpd80 · 19-01-2010, 07:59 PM

Going back to the D2C Mustang platform for a minute, it started out as a heavily modified DEW floor pan with Focus type Front struts and a modified Control Blade rear end not unlike a powered version of the S170 Focus IRS. The decision to scrap the IRS and go to a 3 link SRA was unfortunate but deemed necessary at the time.

Virtual build software will allow engineers endless trial and error substitution of existing Mustang framing for Falcon modules. No doubt there would be some hurdles with the much shorter wheelbase and positioning of rear seats/fuel tank but surely those obstacles would not be insurmountable.

Ten years ago, virtual build was not used as a front line tool but more to clean up semi finished designs, it's use on the 2010 Taurus enables 12 months to be cut of the design process, remember how Mulally ordered rework of the Taurus to get the looks right, that software enabled the changes to be done in a fraction of the time.

I'm pretty confident that once the scoping of our Falcon is completed both it and the Mustang will fit under the engineering unbrella as will a long wheelbased luxury sedan.........

JPFS1 · 19-01-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Did some digging and it was probably Tailor rolled Blanks (TRB) I was thinking of. I was sure there were some news articles a while back about a different body construction process for (around) 2015 that would see some signifcant changes, or I have to lay of the beer and contact sport awhile so my memory can recover.

Did they use TRB in FG?

TRB and TWB are nothing new and have been used even here in Aus for years.

Ford are just now using the terminology for marketing spin.

JPFS1 · 19-01-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

I'm also concerned with the ongoing viability of Ford of Australia's PD community. I have a very high regard for them. No PD organization within Ford has done so much with so little on a continual basis. But their workoad can be like a big sine wave due to their remote location, and keeping them busy in a consistent manner is tough.

There's been no sign wave for about 5-6 years. massive workloads.

Swordsman88 · 19-01-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

There's been no sign wave for about 5-6 years. massive workloads.

hmm..when T6 is finished i wonder if the work will switch to GRWD then??

jpd80 · 19-01-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

There's been no sign wave for about 5-6 years. massive workloads.

His knowledge is based on ten years ago before Territory,
T6 and other regional projects like Indian Fiesta and Figo.

jpd80 · 19-01-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

hmm..when T6 is finished i wonder if the work will switch to GRWD then??

When T6, FG II, EB I-4 Falcon and New Territory are finished.....
Sounds like FoA are that busy you could shove a broom in their back sides and sweep the floor...

Ghiadude · 19-01-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

When T6, FG II, EB I-4 Falcon and New Territory are finished.....
Sounds like FoA are that busy you could shove a broom in their back sides and sweep the floor...

They do sound busy and when you factor in the variety of products theyre working on. Its a ringing endorsement for the team. Are they being funded appropriately or are they the "go to guy" when it comes to budget development projects?

ChemicalHorizon · 19-01-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

There's been no sign wave for about 5-6 years. massive workloads.

Its really bugging me.

SINE

engineers

Falc'man · 20-01-2010, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Mmmm....

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...bal/index.html

Sorry to say this. For the amount of inaccuracies in this article I'm surprised that someone with your knowledge even posted it.

jpd80 · 20-01-2010, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChemicalHorizon

Its really bugging me.

SINE

engineers

No, I think JPFS1 is pretty busy at the moment and it's great to see him take the time to answer post on here.

Wally · 20-01-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Sorry to say this. For the amount of inaccuracies in this article I'm surprised that someone with your knowledge even posted it.

yeah I spotted that too:-

Quote:

along the lines of Nissan's giant-killing GT-R.

the GT-R is the giant others are trying to kill.

JPFS1 · 20-01-2010, 12:07 PM

ChemicalH - The fingers get ahead of the mind sometimes...

I can't guarantee any improvements either

JPFS1 · 20-01-2010, 12:11 PM

And just to make it clear guys, i'm not an engineer. I don't want to give the impression that I am.

I do have daily meetings and discussions with them though.

R-Design · 20-01-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Sorry to say this. For the amount of inaccuracies in this article I'm surprised that someone with your knowledge even posted it.

Sorry you feel that way Falc'man, but I still think the article raised some interesting points. I guess time will tell (hopefully you're right).

Trendseeker · 20-01-2010, 01:09 PM

The entire story on the future of the Falcon is like a sine wave. Watch out, here comes another trough (don't shoot the messenger!).

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...0120-mkfq.html

**Luke Plaizier** · 20-01-2010, 01:33 PM

That's just good old Jez trying to defend his reputation, since it was crash tackled by Dowling, Gover and the rest.

Is anyone really surprised? Anyone for Chinese whispers?

Lukeyson

Nikked · 20-01-2010, 05:34 PM

Jez Spinks should stick to reviewing Hotwheels.

Quote:

Another nail appears to have been hammered into the rear-wheel-drive Falcon's coffin, with a Ford insider reportedly telling a respected US car magazine that the car "is dead".

Link to Artical, who is this insider? Reportedly?

Quote:

Motor Trend quotes the Ford source in a story on the next-generation Mustang that's due in 2014 and rumoured by some media to be linked to the next-generation Falcon expected the same year.

The story follows Ford boss Alan Mulally's comments last week that the car maker would no longer produce different vehicles for different countries, confirming the next Falcon would have to share its large-car platform with the next-generation North American Taurus.

Where did they confirm the falcon will be built on the tauraus (mondeo) platform?

Quote:

The Taurus is currently front- and all-wheel-drive only, and Ford told Drive at last week's Detroit motor show that its rear-wheel-drive development program remains frozen after it was suspended in late 2008 due to increasingly strict emissions limits in the US.

Frozen...hmmm, anything frozen can melt, what does emmisons laws have to do with the location of drive wheels.

Quote:

Motor Trend's source says the new Mustang will remain rear-wheel-drive, though it looks set to be built on its own compact platform and sold around the world rather than extended to cater for large-car applications such as the Falcon or Taurus.

looks set? The mustang is a large (ish) car, i needs to remain a 4 seater, and now needs to compete with the challanger and Camaro, both built on large car platforms

In a discussion about Ford's global rear-wheel-drive large-car platform, the Ford insider told Motor Trend, "The [next-generation rear-drive] Falcon is dead."

Quote:

In Fairfax's story last week about the demise of the Australian Falcon, Ford boss Mulally hinted on the eve of the 2010 Detroit motor show that the Mustang may be the only rear-wheel-drive Ford available in Australia in the future.

"You can imagine another new platform, just like the Falcon, that's going to be rear-wheel-drive for [the new] Mustang, so you can imagine driving the One Ford [program] we're going to have every one of those [One Ford vehicles globally], and there's no reason why we can't have it [the Mustang] in Australia."

Where is the hint of the mustang being the only RWD car.

Quote:

Neither Ford Australia nor its parent company would guarantee the future of Falcon production in Australia.

In a further twist this week, Ford Australia axed more than 30 contracted employees who Drive believes were working on computer-aided design studies for projects relating to the next-generation Falcon.

Who drive beleives.. I.E, we don't know anything, so we will let Jez dribble.

**Fordman1** · 20-01-2010, 06:23 PM

I'm not convinced either way...

I hope Gover is correct !

There are no quotes from Mullaly or Burela that support either Theory 100 %, and the quotes used by the media can be interpreted both in a pro or negative light as far as Falcon goes.

I know that the Mondeo platform was being seriously considered a few years ago as a Falcon replacement. What the current plan is ? Only a few know....

I hope it means there will be :

1. A locally manufactured car.

2. A RWD Falcon.

jpd80 · 20-01-2010, 06:36 PM

................"The Falcon is dead"

:

The G6ET Spot · 20-01-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

looks set? The mustang is a large (ish) car, i needs to remain a 4 seater, and now needs to compete with the challanger and Camaro, both built on large car platforms

In a discussion about Ford's global rear-wheel-drive large-car platform, the Ford insider told Motor Trend, "The [next-generation rear-drive] Falcon is dead."

You forgot one very important thing. The Mustang needs IRS from the factory. Which our Falcon has.

_2:

phillyc · 20-01-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008WhiteSR

The entire story on the future of the Falcon is like a sine wave. Watch out, here comes another trough (don't shoot the messenger!).

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...0120-mkfq.html

Jez Spinks was made to look stupid so now he won't back down in a hurry at least from his 'line / direction'.

Unfortunately, the fact that the self confessed GMH lover is that way inclined, means his anti-falcon rhetoric could continue for a while yet.

There were no quotes and an effectively circular reference. Quoting other stories and sources who have un-named sources themselves. Jez is not quoting Mulally or Burela directly and is in fact talking about the initial exchange. He has quite conveniently disregarded the clarification from Mullaly.

That clarification is from Mulally himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullaly

"We've learned so much from the Falcon because its such a dynamite car...the whole thing about rear wheel drive? Were going to have rear wheel drive...(the) next version of the Falcon will be even better, in capital letters"

The capital letters are RWD!

Ohio XB · 20-01-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

The story follows Ford boss Alan Mulally's comments last week that the car maker would no longer produce different vehicles for different countries, confirming the next Falcon would have to share its large-car platform with the next-generation North American Taurus.

Confirming my butt!!!! He makes it sound as if Mulally confirmed, by word and intent, that "....yes, the Falcon will be built on the Taurus platform....", which NEVER happened. He is making a speculation based on a speculation.

What ever happened to journalism? If journalists would have done this 10-15 years ago they would be fired for doing such an irresponsible thing.

Steve