Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon? - Page 9

drew`SEVNT5 · 17-01-2012, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

what is your experience with the latest falcons?

what is your experience with the competition of the latest falcon? you have obviously been in both recently to make such claims!

do you consider the honda accord to be a big, heavy, thirsty sedan?

Best mate/work mate has a G6ET, and before that had a run of XT/G6 company cars. I end up behind the drivers seat a few times a week, depending on what is going on at work (i drive his, he drives mine, whatever need be)

I myself had a VE work car whilst owning my XR6T

And yes, the Accord V6 is a heavy, thirsty sedan. Just like the Commo and Falcon. Accord Euro, no. Mazda 6, no. Mondeo, no. Passat, no. Octavia, no.

All well and good spruiking 'rooly good' fuel numbers for a Falcon that lives on a traffic free freeway all day, but get into traffic, or actually do more than drive like a nanna, and watch the fuel go up up up.

Falc'man · 16-01-2012, 12:19 AM

Right on cue.

prydey · 16-01-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Right on cue.

bingo. case in point.

drew`SEVNT5 · 17-01-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Right on cue.

I aim to please.

That said, I don't see what is factually wrong with stating that not everyone wants a Falcodore, when there is a whole world of other cars, that some people may consider more exciting/stylish/better built/fuel economical/whatever suits there life than the basic big sedan. The blueprint for the Falcadoor type car is the same as it has always been: big, not particularly smart, basic... It just has a few more trinkets... And if it suits you, great, go buy one.

However, small/medium/suv cars aren't the embarassing old pie-boxes that they were back in the day... They have moved on, become more desirable, and are reaping the sales rewards.

We aren't in Kansas anymore, Toto... If large, traditional RWD sedans were what people wanted, people would buy them.

Falc'man · 17-01-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

I aim to please.

That said, I don't see what is factually wrong with stating that not everyone wants a Falcodore, when there is a whole world of other cars, that some people may consider more exciting/stylish/better built/fuel economical/whatever suits there life than the basic big sedan. The blueprint for the Falcadoor type car is the same as it has always been: big, not particularly smart, basic... It just has a few more trinkets... And if it suits you, great.

However, small/medium cars are the embarassing old pie-boxes that they were back in the day... They have moved on, become more desirable, and are reaping the sales rewards.

But, that is all you do here. Keep it up.

drew`SEVNT5 · 17-01-2012, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

But, that is all you do here. Keep it up.

Life would be pretty boring if we all held the same opinion of "rah rah rah, falcons the best, people are idiots for not buying it"

For what it is, Falcon/Territory is a good car, albeit with patchy quality.(One of the reasons I didn't consider one in my latest purchase) Same goes for Commodore... Being a nice car isn't enough if it isn't the sort of vehicle people want... I don't think that is too hard a point to argue?

Also, to clarify my original post which has peoples knickers in a knot, by 'more competent vehicles at competitive prices', read that as more available, as in more available than there ever has been.

I can see how a pessimistic mind may read it another way...

Falc'man · 17-01-2012, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

Life would be pretty boring if we all held the same opinion of "rah rah rah, falcons the best, people are idiots for not buying it"

For what it is, Falcon/Territory is a good car, albeit with patchy quality. Same goes for Commodore... Being a nice car isn't enough if it isn't the sort of vehicle people want... I don't think that is too hard a point to argue?

Also, to clarify my original post which has peoples knickers in a knot, by 'more competent vehicles at competitive prices', read that as more available, as in more available than there ever has been.

I can see how a pessimistic mind may read it another way...

What a good time it is to tell us you think it's a good car... I've never seen you do that before but as I expected you'd come around... very predictable.

What you said before was something else and typical of your negative anti-Ford sentiments, hence my reply. As I said, keep it up.

max_torq · 16-01-2012, 12:56 PM

The falcon debuted as a 3 box sedan in 1960 as america's affordable ford. Since then there has been at least 2 oil shocks, a recession we had to have, the bursting of a few bubbles, and the GFC. The realization has set in that the car takes up a large proportion of the individual or families budget, and possibly the debt position. The modern passenger car has to be versatile and cost efficient. That means sacrificing mass, rear passenger head room, top speed performance, and driving dynamics, all things Falcon are good at. If a smaller car will perform the same fundamental functions as a falcon then people will buy it instead. The medium cars are now bigger, more competent vehicles, at the same time the falcon is a bit bigger and less affordable than it was in 1960. The US market has downsized from the famous behemoths of the sixties, ours is following.

The opportunity with the big aussie dollar is to import the modern cars that suit the current market perceptions.

The problem is, what if the dollar goes back, for any reason to US0.60 or so, how do we then afford the imports that have replaced local production. The only way is invest profits from successful imports into local production capacity.

jpd80 · 16-01-2012, 01:10 PM

Those early Falcons were considered compacts in the US, same as Focus today.
And the early I-6 was called a "Thriftmaster Six"....
My how things have changed.

max_torq · 16-01-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Those early Falcons were considered compacts in the US, same as Focus today.
And the early I-6 was called a "Thriftmaster Six"....
My how things have changed.

They also had hi-tech safety innovations like seatbelts and collapsible steering columns in order to convince people they could be as safe as larger cars. What goes around...

tranquilized · 16-01-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max_torq

The falcon debuted as a 3 box sedan in 1960 as america's affordable ford. Since then there has been at least 2 oil shocks, a recession we had to have, the bursting of a few bubbles, and the GFC. The realization has set in that the car takes up a large proportion of the individual or families budget, and possibly the debt position. The modern passenger car has to be versatile and cost efficient. That means sacrificing mass, rear passenger head room, top speed performance, and driving dynamics, all things Falcon are good at. If a smaller car will perform the same fundamental functions as a falcon then people will buy it instead. The medium cars are now bigger, more competent vehicles, at the same time the falcon is a bit bigger and less affordable than it was in 1960. The US market has downsized from the famous behemoths of the sixties, ours is following.

The opportunity with the big aussie dollar is to import the modern cars that suit the current market perceptions.

The problem is, what if the dollar goes back, for any reason to US0.60 or so, how do we then afford the imports that have replaced local production. The only way is invest profits from successful imports into local production capacity.

Good post, very good point. We all know how quickly importers pass on the effects of a falling aussie dollar!

Another theory that popped into my head recently was that so many people - probably most people, know and care little about cars, yet they'll want to project an image with the car they drive. These people probably view the Falcadore as just too old fashioned. It was the car their parents drove, so they'll want something they percieve to be better, more unique, or whatever it may be. Of course the irony is they pass up the more uniquely engineered and capable aussie car for what is often a run-of-the-mill korean s***box.

BA-XT · 16-01-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Another theory that popped into my head recently was that so many people - probably most people, know and care little about cars, yet they'll want to project an image with the car they drive. These people probably view the Falcadore as just too old fashioned. It was the car their parents drove, so they'll want something they percieve to be better, more unique, or whatever it may be. Of course the irony is they pass up the more uniquely engineered and capable aussie car for what is often a run-of-the-mill korean s***box.

YES!! That is absolutley perfect. I work in the Docklands in Melbourne, and the type of mainstay Australian has changed. The "Y" generation (of which I am unfortuantly part of) has in my view, become softer and more "socially / envornmentally aware".

The funny thing is that most peoples arguments for not buying a larger car is the perception of more fuel usage. My argument would be that you can put your Ford on gas and actually decrease your fuel bill.

As stated above, my generations parents would have possibly had a Ford / Holden growing up and we don't want to drive the same car. The social demographic has become a bunch of latte sipping yuppies driving around in their Kia's and Hyandias. Yet, they will be first to jump up and down as more Aussie companies move overseas or shut down.

I'm getting tired of seeing so many Korean S*** Boxes on our roads.

Wretched · 16-01-2012, 02:38 PM

What's stopping people from buying the Falcon?
What are the reasons people should buy it?

The Territory is proof enough within the Ford camp that the market is shifting away from large sedans, actually the whole Ford range is proof of it. There are so many other cars out there that cater to the different needs of buyers. I think it is a good thing that we have such a variety of vehicles to choose from and even just within Ford.

Brazen · 16-01-2012, 03:21 PM

Petrol consumption is WAY overblown. Otherwise people wouldnt be shifting into SUVs.

Purchase price and lifestyle wants/needs appear to drive the purchasing decisions now. Falcons and Commodores are great cars, but there are a lot of other great cars out there too.

I drove a new model Kia Rio with the 103kw 1.6 direct injected engine and 6 speed manual. It had iPhone syncing, phone bluetooth, 6 airbags, alloys, leather steering wheel, cruise, power everything etc etc for about 20 grand. It drive and handles really well too and averaged about 5.6l/100km. Sure it wont tow and handle a family of five but its a decent car.

In the past you had to spend Falcon money to get something decent, nowadays you can walk into a showroom for 20 grand and get something decent. Shoppers are just responding to that.

vztrt · 16-01-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Petrol consumption is WAY overblown. Otherwise people wouldnt be shifting into SUVs.

Seeing as half the SUV's bought are diesels then fuel consumption is looked at (even if the premium pretty much makes the savings quite minimal).

Joe5619 · 16-01-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Petrol consumption is WAY overblown. Otherwise people wouldnt be shifting into SUVs.

Purchase price and lifestyle wants/needs appear to drive the purchasing decisions now. Falcons and Commodores are great cars, but there are a lot of other great cars out there too.

I drove a new model Kia Rio with the 103kw 1.6 direct injected engine and 6 speed manual. It had iPhone syncing, phone bluetooth, 6 airbags, alloys, leather steering wheel, cruise, power everything etc etc for about 20 grand. It drive and handles really well too and averaged about 5.6l/100km. Sure it wont tow and handle a family of five but its a decent car.

In the past you had to spend Falcon money to get something decent, nowadays you can walk into a showroom for 20 grand and get something decent. Shoppers are just responding to that.

hehehe... I do have to laugh at this post... You say fuel consumption is overblown and then go on to use fuel consumption as a positive for a Kia Rio!!!

Brazen · 17-01-2012, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

hehehe... I do have to laugh at this post... You say fuel consumption is overblown and then go on to use fuel consumption as a positive for a Kia Rio!!!

Petrol consumption is a bonus of the little kia, but to think petrol consumption is the main reason people are trading out of their 40 grand Falcons into small cars is wrong. It's the purchase price and quality of the market that's doing it. Look at Hybrid Camry, it has a Falcon price and small car economy... It's selling half of expectations

Joe5619 · 17-01-2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Petrol consumption is a bonus of the little kia, but to think petrol consumption is the main reason people are trading out of their 40 grand Falcons into small cars is wrong. It's the purchase price and quality of the market that's doing it. Look at Hybrid Camry, it has a Falcon price and small car economy... It's selling half of expectations

Yet, Camry now outsells Falcon!!!

Who would have EVER thought that 10 years ago!!

Road_Warrior · 16-01-2012, 06:27 PM

Perhaps it could be, that people are prepared to suffer a bit more fuel consumption in a vehicle that offers more utility and user-friendliness (an SUV) than in a large sedan which, for all intents and purposes, has limited uses compared with an SUV.

Falc'man · 17-01-2012, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

I would have thought declining Falc/Commo sales would be enough fact and/or substance for you...?

Has it ever occurred to you that it's not what you say, but it's how you say it?
You're quite active in offending most of members on this forum with your usual negative and derogatory tone. If you "aim to please", then why do you need to be so offensive?

Mackspower · 17-01-2012, 07:47 AM

Quote:

"Joshua Dowling is that you?"

. . . love it

kevino · 17-01-2012, 09:12 AM

Camry=fleets, Falcon ecoboost 4=fleets.

banarcus · 17-01-2012, 09:57 AM

If Ford had a XR8 or a base sports V8 in its line up, we may well of bought one not too long ago. We couldn't go for the GS as it was out of the price range and Holden were doing a great deal at the time. I guess from a personal perspective, that's what stopped us from buying a Falcon.

Brazen · 17-01-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banarcus

If Ford had a XR8 or a base sports V8 in its line up, we may well of bought one not too long ago. We couldn't go for the GS as it was out of the price range and Holden were doing a great deal at the time. I guess from a personal perspective, that's what stopped us from buying a Falcon.

And that is why focusing on fuel economy might be the downfall of the Falcon. Large cars are only 7% of the market, its a niche. People have other options which probably make better sense than a large sedan.. so what do you do? Go for the heart, make cars people want to buy rather than being a 'smart choice'. If you are trying to go after people's heads, you are never going to succeed with a 1.8 tonne 40 grand car family sedan.

aussie muscle · 18-01-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

And that is why focusing on fuel economy might be the downfall of the Falcon. Large cars are only 7% of the market, its a niche. People have other options which probably make better sense than a large sedan.. so what do you do? Go for the heart, make cars people want to buy rather than being a 'smart choice'. If you are trying to go after people's heads, you are never going to succeed with a 1.8 tonne 40 grand car family sedan.

so what you are saying is, since falcon sells in niche numbers, they ought to start selling it as a niche product? (yeah, sounds kinda obvious). i kinda doubt falcon will ever go back to being a mainstream product like it was in 1986.

prydey · 18-01-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

And that is why focusing on fuel economy might be the downfall of the Falcon. Large cars are only 7% of the market, its a niche. People have other options which probably make better sense than a large sedan.. so what do you do? Go for the heart, make cars people want to buy rather than being a 'smart choice'. If you are trying to go after people's heads, you are never going to succeed with a 1.8 tonne 40 grand car family sedan.

you can't expect them to make money by catering to minority groups. this is why a range of models are no longer available. they may have upset a handful of 'potential' customers but they are saving themselves development and production costs and it isn't really costing them major sales.

Buntz · 18-01-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

you can't expect them to make money by catering to minority groups. this is why a range of models are no longer available. they may have upset a handful of 'potential' customers but they are saving themselves development and production costs and it isn't really costing them major sales.

Which is why the LPG falcon needs to be advertised as a petrol car replacement.

b0son · 18-01-2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Which is why the LPG falcon needs to be advertised as a petrol car replacement.

there already is a petrol replacement. its called diesel.

Bossxr8 · 17-01-2012, 06:34 PM

If the DSG was so great you wouldn't have to change your driving style to suit it. Thats a sign it isn't doing what its supposed too.

The problem is, other manufacturers DSG's don't have these problems, they work the way they are supposed to. VW's doesn't. Its not the DSG itself that is to blame, but VW's tuning of it.

F6E · 17-01-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The problem is, other manufacturers DSG's don't have these problems, they work the way they are supposed to.

Yep, had a DSG M3 for a day as a loaner. It worked flawlessly at 10 tenths in "manual" mode or just crawling around the 'burbs in "auto". M5's SMGIII was a whore-with-a-sore in comparison.

We have slipped the Euro ZF into our local Fords, why not source a DSG as well ? Then we can all have "flappy paddles"...
Although, the edited ZF shifts as quick as a DSG (thats a POV not a fact, so easy.)