Future of Ford and Holden Could be Revealed in Detroit this week

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'd suggest that all Ford fans take a step back and realise these articles for what they are,
the press drilling for an emotional response from staunch blue oval supporters, they do this every year.

Search your minds and look at the Falcons you admire at the moment, the people who designed those
vehicles are asking you the fans to trust them, that whatever design they decide is best will be best.

This is why they are taking an eternity to decide and put up the best possible case going forward,
they know what vehicles you like and will be designing vehicles with similar or better characteristics.

I would suggest for our own mental hygene to trust that Ford Austraila has the buyer's best
interests at heart and will develop a vehicle that Holden will struggle to counter, that's a fact.

Well said, and it certainly helps put the current media maelstrom into perspective.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Danny

Look Jimbob, I tried to draft a reply, but my staunch anti Americanism would have seen me banned and sent to share a cell with Julian Assange....

I asked you have you driven one. You haven't answered the question. But don't worry, I already know what the answer is. I won't even bother asking if you have even been to America. If you were that anti-American, you wouldn't like Ford or Holden. Ah, don't you hate that one? ;)

[Franco Cozzo]

Im sick of this anti-Americanism crap, it must be the "cool, in thing" to "hate" America these days. You musn't like Ford then, its an American company, the Falcon originated from America. They came to our aid in WW2, etc.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Im sick of this anti-Americanism crap, it must be the "cool, in thing" to "hate" America these days. You musn't like Ford then, its an American company, the Falcon originated from America. They came to our aid in WW2, etc.

I'd be more concerned about the hating of Australian products rather than any anti-Americanisms. Seems "cool" to bag out a superior local product.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I asked you have you driven one. You haven't answered the question. But don't worry, I already know what the answer is. I won't even bother asking if you have even been to America. If you were that anti-American, you wouldn't like Ford or Holden. Ah, don't you hate that one? ;)

Haha yeah Bud got me there, nah never been to Murka myself, and don't plan to (although have done a Royal Carribean cruise which is American).

And I have driven a mid 90's explorer if that counts, and dad had Bronco's and F150s for a while, but no you got me there... I haven't driven any of the new stuff coming from the US like the Eagle Talon, the Lincoln Towncar, The Chevy Nova . I do not like Holden, and my interest in Ford is the fact I can ignore FordUS and Focus (so to speak) on Ford UK which is doing very well Chevypower, you're a good sport I like how you can still be jovial when faced with an a-hole like me .

Big Damo, I asked you a question which you never answered, so quit whining. I could list many reasons why I have a revulsion toward (most of) our US of A cousins, but this is not ever the place for it. Some people don't like China, Russia, Japan, Afghani.. well you get me. I do not like the Evangelical Replublic of Murka. My decision mate.

[jpd80]

well I can say that I have ridden in a '11 Taurus and I was mighty impressed and I got a lot
of seat time in a Ford Edge, 5,000 km all over California and parts of Nevada and Arizona.
I can say without doubt that US Ford have come a long way compared to the early 1990s,
these vehicles are worth a serious look and even though Falcon is No.1 choice, Taurus isn't far behind..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

I'd be more concerned about the hating of Australian products rather than any anti-Americanisms. Seems "cool" to bag out a superior local product.

The Falcon isnt anything special, sure it has a good engine, but thats about it, the interior is average, acres of plastic, the stereo sucks, comes with a space saver spare (all Kia cars have full sized spares), the seating position is weird, and it has minor fit and finish issues. My WS Fiesta which is a base model came with Continental tyres, the dash is covered in a soft feel material, the seating position is great, stereo came with mids and tweeters separate, unfortunately it has a space saver, heated side mirrors, auto up/down drivers side window. This is in an $18000 car, compared to mid $30k for the Falcon. Not too long ago, the XR6 came with only front power windows

At least the USA Fords have all that techo-wizzardry. I also quite like the whole American car look.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The Falcon isnt anything special, sure it has a good engine, but thats about it, the interior is average, acres of plastic, the stereo sucks, comes with a space saver spare (all Kia cars have full sized spares), the seating position is weird, and it has minor fit and finish issues. My WS Fiesta which is a base model came with Continental tyres, the dash is covered in a soft feel material, the seating position is great, stereo came with mids and tweeters separate, unfortunately it has a space saver, heated side mirrors, auto up/down drivers side window. This is in an $18000 car, compared to mid $30k for the Falcon. Not too long ago, the XR6 came with only front power windows

At least the USA Fords have all that techo-wizzardry. I also quite like the whole American car look.

^^^

Your comparing a car built in 2002 to one built in 08-09, current falcon has all power windows and automatic climate control as well as ZF 6-speed standard.

My 2002 falcon, has

Full size spare, soft touch dash, no fit and finish issues @ 190 000ks, auto down drivers window.
Seating position is a personal thing, for me its fine. Stereo is also fine, i might be 24 but i don't do doof doof.

I test drove a WS fiesta for the missus, found it small, gutless (auto though) with hard plastics and wasn't all that impressed. Having said that i would buy a manual zetec diesel if i could.

As for the looks of American cars, i find slabs of chrome to be a bit meh, there big, bulky, awkward and in your face. Some like that, some dont. I dont.

My comment wasn't in regard to the falcon, it was in regard to journalists sticking the boot into a local products that are world class despite lacking in development dollars due to market size. Seems the last few years have been about deriding the Local product because its fun.

sorry

[Franco Cozzo]

I was comparing my WS to an FG, I mentioned the BA/F lack of power windows for the sake of it. Of course the Fiesta is "gutless", its 1.6L 4 cyl, but hey it uses a lot less fuel and still keeps up with traffic. I dont need to race everyone from the lights or do burnouts.

I was at a Ford dealership earler on last year, went to open the bonnet on an FG and the latch broke off from the dash.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I was comparing my WS to an FG, I mentioned the BA/F lack of power windows for the sake of it. Of course the Fiesta is "gutless", its 1.6L 4 cyl, but hey it uses a lot less fuel and still keeps up with traffic. I dont need to race everyone from the lights or do burnouts.

I was at a Ford dealership earler on last year, went to open the bonnet on an FG and the latch broke off from the dash.

Neither do i. I just need to be able to overtake B-doubles in less than 5 mins.

And Ferrari's catch fire, commodores have electrical faults, toyota accelerators stick, Its a mass produced item, there are always going to be faults with some.

[madmelon]

This really is pathetic. If people haven't realised by now that the Falcon has only one destination (Taurus) they won't until the day it is officially revealed. Ford US is not interested in pandering to a small group of noisy Australians who are ******ing about RWD...or for that matter, the Australian market in general. They will do what is best for the bottom line, not what is best for enthusiasts in this (or any) country. Sometimes (rarely) those two interests align (ie Coyote V8 in Mustang) but while other manufactures out sell them with dynamically inferior vehicles those two paths aren't going to cross.

It's all well and good to speculate about Mustang or Lincoln but those vehicles serve the needs of their customer base well enough already and it's pretty unlikely Ford would spend a billion bucks to include the Falcon in either of those for the sake of us (Enthusiasts/Australians/).

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by madmelon

This really is pathetic. If people haven't realised by now that the Falcon has only one destination (Taurus) they won't until the day it is officially revealed. Ford US is not interested in pandering to a small group of noisy Australians who are ******ing about RWD...or for that matter, the Australian market in general. They will do what is best for the bottom line, not what is best for enthusiasts in this (or any) country. Sometimes (rarely) those two interests align (ie Coyote V8 in Mustang) but while other manufactures out sell them with dynamically inferior vehicles those two paths aren't going to cross.

It's all well and good to speculate about Mustang or Lincoln but those vehicles serve the needs of their customer base well enough already and it's pretty unlikely Ford would spend a billion bucks to include the Falcon in either of those for the sake of us (Enthusiasts/Australians/).

Forever the optimist aye

[Dave R]

Jeez, people will get over it when it happens, and there's a very high chance that it will.. when we are all alot older. I wouldn't give a rats *** if Falcon goes FWD, just as long as they execute One Ford properly and send the Mustang over.

I really don't know why the media bothers to report such rubbish, it's half a decade away and nothing is certain.

[Pistonbroke]

Just hope I get the chance to own my very own BRAND NEW GT before they're gone.

For me this is why I want Falcon to to be RWD.

For the every day traveller I don't care it it FWD, RWD or AWD.

I just want Ford AU to have a major say in the way the car looks. I just don't like the look of many American cars. Even the Mustang falls short. Personally, the last good looking Stang was the '70 Boss.

We all have our own opinions and tastes, and whatever Ford decide to do we will have no say in it. For me I want a large 4 door, that is made here. It would be a tragedy if we lost the manufacturing base. Once its gone it will never come back.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think it was quite strange for Jay Mays to speak about plans going forward when a
decision was still pending, why would he do that when everyone else is so tight lipped?

He sits on and reviews the projects at several stages, his saying "If they decide on AWD"
almost sounded like an after thought, maybe he was counting on the Aussie press missing it...

I go with JPFR1's catch of the day, the press just got played by Ford........

Although I am not a fisher (snapper or whiting at best) a red herring or two would go down well at the moment (just in case some didn't get JPFS1's post.)

[Xr6couple]

Well if awd comes for falcon/Taurus then hsv will stand no chance. If it looks like a Taurus then we can count on fpv to make it look good again. And if herrod/ipv get there act together maybe there could be a buisness in rwd conversion packs for falcons haha? Though in my opinion awd is bloody awesome. I had a legacy before my falcon and although it broke Down more often then anything I've ever owned it handled bloody well.
At the end of the day one ford will make money and possibly open doors for exported fpv's?

[Franco Cozzo]

If it was one of those electronically controlled AWD systems, im sure with some playing around with software you could make it send more power to the rear or 50/50 split.

[Rastas]

Im kinda excited how this next 'One Ford' Falcon mite look !
If its looks are anything like the 2012 Mondeo/Fusion then expect a radically diffrent look to current model (in a good way, not an AU way), also it will look nothing like the current taurus.
With all the latest Ford gadgets available as its a world car, id'e expect it to be very competative against anything in its class worldwide regardless if it is fwd/rwd/awd.
Expect this One Ford Falcon to be a ripper.

[Chilliman]

I think we should all remember that IF this (FWD/AWD) is happening, it won't be happening for another 5 years.

In that time these are the things that are happening for sure:

1. Mondeo, Fusion and Lincoln MKZ will all be merged onto the CD4 platform which is designed to combine the best features of the current EUCD and CD3 platforms
2. Mustang's platform will be totally revamped with inclusion of IRS (it could even be Falcon's Control Blade IRS)
3. Taurus will also share the CD4 platform, albeit a 'streched' version - this is where Falcon would most likely get its next platform from if it does indeed go the FWD/AWD route.....on a positive note this platform would certainly make for a lighter car than the current D3 based Taurus.
4. Lincoln have said that RWD is not in their new platform plans (another blow for GRWD and RWD Falcon) as they seek to further differentiate their cars from Ford's. While the platform underpinnings may be the same, Lincolns will use higher spec chassis components such as active suspension and a different AWD system (Ford Aus maybe able to mix and match some of these components for Falcon as Lincoln have stated that there are no plans for the brand to go global for now). 'Top hats' (body) will also be totally diiferent (no more simple 'nose & tail' jobs) - this gives hope for Ford Aus to have a unique Falcon top hat. Of course Lincoln interiors and features will be more luxurious/higher spec.

[jpd80]

And lets not kid ourselves, whether FWD or RWD/AWD the platform will be
shared so development costs will be less and updates occurr much sooner.

The good part about Ford AUS being plugged into a shared platform is that
we get all the neat stuff like Diesels, hybrids and Ecoboost, MyFord...ect,

I'm thinking that Holden will have to do the same with Commodore otherwise
the costs of a unique platform and technology barriers will really inhibit them.

[Dave4118]

IF the falcon was to go FWD/AWD we would need a 40/60 or 30/70 power split (don't know how possible this is with the current ford FWD/AWD platform). Now if it's possible (within limits i.e. costs) im sure ford AU would alter the platform for that power split.

Now the negative with AWD is the extra weight over RWD. How much weight would we gain if we got AWD but replaced the cast iron I6 for the duratec 37?. Are we talking a gain of 150kgs? more? Plus Chilliman said above that the stretched CD4 platform would be lighter than the current Taurus platform (D3).

Next negative is east - west engine config.

So what needs to happen is

- Ford AU wins the design contract (over ford US/EU)
- 40/60 or 30/70 power split (RWD biased)
- v8 Miami + ecoboost v6 fit under the bonnet
- Ford AU makes AWD work better than the current RWD set-up

Im probably wrong on every point but its my 2c.

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by Pistonbroke

I just want Ford AU to have a major say in the way the car looks.

This is not being helped by changing CEOs every 2 years.

[mrbaxr6t]

I really hope the falcon stays locally manufactured, it (the falcon) has evolved and matured with Australia yes it had its roots in the USA being a kindof mustang "thing" designed for the then forming ford australia, sorry but its the way it is because of where its built, build it anywhere else and it just won't be the same imho

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by Rastas

Im kinda excited how this next 'One Ford' Falcon mite look!

If the 'One Ford' Falcon is anything like the new global Ford Focus, it should be a very good car and a bloody good looker too.

But I'm worried Ford US might loose the direction that European Ford's have been taking for some time now. No matter the car, Ford in Europe is known for delivering an affordable, stylish and driver focused car. The latest MK7 Fiesta lost some of this focus in regards to driver dynamics, which I'm sure had something to do with Ford US. The latest Ka too is bettered by its predessor when it comes to on-road prowess. Reviews of the latest Focus see this trend continue.

Now I'm fully aware electric steering can't, at this time, match the 'claws on the road' feel of a hydraulic or electro-hydraulic setup. New Ford's are less focused, and are made for a larger market, they are trying to please everyone. But is the 'One Ford' philosopy coming at the expense of driver feel, will pleasing everyone make Ford the new Toyota? Maybe I'm over-reacting?

Prove me wrong Ford. Fingers crossed for a ground breaking new Mustang.

[kpcart]

When Falcon goes FWD, or AWD, you should all be happy that at least it still exists. and modern FWD and AWD systems work great, all you doubters will be pleasantly surprised with how well they drive. the only thing you will miss is doing pathetic illegal bogan-brain damage induced burnouts and donuts.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Danny

And I have driven a mid 90's explorer if that counts, and dad had Bronco's and F150s for a while, but no you got me there... .

Ohhh, I see... Don't worry, the cars they produce today are exactly the same

[glavas]

All I know is if they go fwd/awd I'm buying a f6 and a gtp of the last rwd model and putting them away for a long time.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dave4118

IF the falcon was to go FWD/AWD we would need a 40/60 or 30/70 power split (don't know how possible this is with the current ford FWD/AWD platform). Now if it's possible (within limits i.e. costs) im sure ford AU would alter the platform for that power split.

Now the negative with AWD is the extra weight over RWD. How much weight would we gain if we got AWD but replaced the cast iron I6 for the duratec 37?. Are we talking a gain of 150kgs? more? Plus Chilliman said above that the stretched CD4 platform would be lighter than the current Taurus platform (D3).

Next negative is east - west engine config.

So what needs to happen is

- Ford AU wins the design contract (over ford US/EU)
- 40/60 or 30/70 power split (RWD biased)
- v8 Miami + ecoboost v6 fit under the bonnet
- Ford AU makes AWD work better than the current RWD set-up

Im probably wrong on every point but its my 2c.

Food for thought, the CD3 based Fusion SEL V6 AWD is 3638 lbs or about 53 Kg lighter than an FG XT.
Externally, the vehicle is slightly shorter and narrower than our Falcon and similarly, the internal
hip/shoulder and rear leg room are approximately 50mm less than our Falcon, very close to Mondeo.
Similarly, a RWD Falcon that uses corporate engines and has no I-6 could be shortened by 100 mm
making it much closer to a wide large mid sized car......Hmmmm this gets interesting.

I'm beginning to think that a suitable replacement for our Falcon is possible by looking at what
Ford is offering one level below Taurus and if that is so, then perhaps the lines blurr a little.

Perhaps we should be ask ourselves, how many products can be covered by a new platform
and that, more than which wheels do the driving will govern how effective future products will be.

With small cars becoming baby mid sized vehicles, perhaps there's a case for Ford to steal
some sales away from the competitive small car market by offering a product that is superior,
gives great fuel economy and can also be expanded as a second car to cover the Falcon.

And what of the small and mid sized SUV vehicles, could they be built locally
for domestic and regional export...

There's a lot of product decisions to consider, more than just RWD or FWD/AWD.
As one poster said, Toyota is the real competition not Holden so maybe we have to keep
on Toyota's case and really push Camry hard with a new product that covers it as well as a Falcon.
Combining those two vehicles on one platform is much more appropriate than the old Falcon/Fairlane combo.

[Joe5619]

The only think I know is that my Dec 2009 built Falcon is very very very far behind in Tech compared to the rest.. If one Ford brings Falcon into the model era with tech, then bring it on!! Some of the stuff in Taurus/ Modno needed to be in Falcon years ago..

All this stuff is waaayy more important then what wheel the engine is linked too.. As long as it handles well (same or better than what we have now) who cares??

[Road_Warrior]

Agree on the tech and feature content. Hopefully some of the stuff slated originally for the FG but cut due to cost reasons will make it to FGII (FH?)