Are We Being Too Harsh And Critial Of Ford Australia

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'm betting the XT will be gone come FGII. G6 will become the new base model.

My thoughts too.

G6 is a perfect base car as there's really no point in having the XT around anymore. Waste of money.

Most fleets choose G6 or XR6 anyway and even more taxis are resprayed G6s these days.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Bobman

My thoughts too.

G6 is a perfect base car as there's really no point in having the XT around anymore. Waste of money.

Most fleets choose G6 or XR6 anyway and even more taxis are resprayed G6s these days.

Without XT they can make higher trim levels. And increase the image of the marque. And by not having to start the design with XT, they can make Falcon a better car from the get go.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Without XT they can make higher trim levels. And increase the image of the marque. And by not having to start the design with XT, they can make Falcon a better car from the get go.

Mutton dressed as Lamb, the XT/Forte have been the main model. IMO it would be a stupid idea to ditch the XT, if they did the 'higher' spec (Insert name here) it will therefore most likely have a higher price tag, putting another question as to why a new car buyer might not buy one.
If FoA could do it for a similar price then it might work

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Mutton dressed as Lamb, the XT/Forte have been the main model. IMO it would be a stupid idea to ditch the XT, if they did the 'higher' spec (Insert name here) it will therefore most likely have a higher price tag, putting another question as to why a new car buyer might not buy one.
If FoA could do it for a similar price then it might work

Not that you care what happens to Falcon anyway.... but XR6 is the most popular trim.

XT is really only for fleets. And it's not like they'd have to do away with it. But not offer it to customers, but just to fleets, and they wouldn't even have to badge it XT in that case.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Not that you care what happens to Falcon anyway.... but XR6 is the most popular trim.

XT is really only for fleets. And it's not like they'd have to do away with it. But not offer it to customers, but just to fleets, and they wouldn't even have to badge it XT in that case.

Mate ive had more Falcons then you have had cooked dinners, so dont patronise me.
Really i dont to be honest (Well for the people that make them i do).
I doubt they would produce it for just fleet sales and not regular consumers.
Im sure i know where they (Customers) would go when told, its only for fleet buyers particularly if the 'up spec base model' ends up being more expensive.

[SteveJH]

Maybe, but currently the xr6 is the main model. One way they could possibly make more money though, would be to go offer upgrade "kits" that can be purchased for installation at ford dealers. These kits would for example 'convert' a car from FG to FG2 standard, or factory approved performance parts.

The performance shops wouldn't like it, but because you got to keep your warranty they could charge a premium. For example you could tick the box for the Harrop Brakes, or a performance exhaust system, or an intercooler, or upgraded Tein or Biltein adjustable coilovers with 3 or four factory settings (Comfort, Normal, Sports & Race). Basically stuff that is too expensive to into every car to meet a price point, but which is fairly simple and straight forward to fit and could possibly even have a beneficial impact on the cars durability.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Mate ive had more Falcons then you have had cooked dinners, so dont patronise me.
Really i dont to be honest (Well for the people that make them i do).
I doubt they would produce it for just fleet sales and not regular consumers.
Im sure i know where they (Customers) would go when told, its only for fleet buyers particularly if the 'up spec base model' ends up being more expensive.

Well... whatever.

But most new car buying Australians are in a position to spill that bit extra and go for an XR6. Anything below that range, you'd be looking at a base spec mondeo, and then below that a camry. And if you can get a camry, may as well get a second hand XR6. XT would have to start at the 28-30k range in order to not warrant getting the much better XR6.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Well... whatever.

But most new car buying Australians are in a position to spill that bit extra and go for an XR6. Anything below that range, you'd be looking at a base spec mondeo, and then below that a camry. And if you can get a camry, may as well get a second hand XR6. XT would have to start at the 28-30k range in order to not warrant getting the much better XR6.

Exactly my point, if something a long the same spec as the XR6 became the 'baseline' product i think it would turn buyers away.
Much better XR6? Its the bloody same as an XT but with a body kit.

Marketing is the issue here, has been for a long time now. Product is there or there abouts it just isnt marketed properly. That and the is still too many issue's with build quality. Problems that are 'within normal tolerances' so they say, that coupled with some dealers after sales service of said issues creates a problem too.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Exactly my point, if something a long the same spec as the XR6 became the 'baseline' product i think it would turn buyers away.
Much better XR6? Its the bloody same as an XT but with a body kit.

Marketing is the issue here, has been for a long time now. Product is there or there abouts it just isnt marketed properly. That and the is still too many issue's with build quality. Problems that are 'within normal tolerances' so they say, that coupled with some dealers after sales service of said issues creates a problem too.

But XT looks crap. It really does. XR look the business, and for 34'990 or whatever the sale is now. It's a steal.

It's also in competition with the not so small Mondeo. So Falcon needs to find that more premium and sporty space above Mondeo.

This is where they need to focus the direction with FGII. More tech, more options. More more.

[jpd80]

XR6 is now a fleet queen and has become the new XT,
That's why so many are lined up unsold at Broadmeadows...


No one in their right mind buys the XT, it's just blech and poor resale
yet Ford keeps building them for stock and pushing them onto dealers....

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No one in their right mind buys the XT, it's just blech and poor resale
yet Ford keeps building them for stock and pushing them onto dealers....

Spot on. Considering the XT has slightly different tail lights compared to G6, no lights in the bumper bar (covers instead), it's amazing that Ford waste money on those little things, like when they removed the lockable fuel flap when FGs came out just to save 5 cents per car (that was a bad move), but they waste $5 per car on building the XT with all the small differences. Defies belief.

There's also more difference between the XT and XR6 besides the body kit as another poster above mentioned. XR6 with better seats and steering wheel ticks all the right boxes.

Make G6 the base model and be done with it. Simple really.

[Road_Warrior]

XR6 LPi

Reverse camera

Curtain airbags

18in rims

$39,990

Promote it on the basis of its running costs and kit and if people still choose Mazda 3's over it, I'll go heave.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

But XT looks crap. It really does. XR look the business, and for 34'990 or whatever the sale is now. It's a steal.

This is where they need to focus the direction with FGII. More tech, more options. More more.

More tech, more options, more more more.

I like that.

But $34,990 for the XR6 is a rip-off considering what you get at the moment is pretty average.

[marcuss]

They lost me when they killed the XR8. Went to upgrade my BF ute and was told I needed to fork out $53k for an uglier version of what I have now. $30-35k changeover, yeah right

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Well... whatever.

But most new car buying Australians are in a position to spill that bit extra and go for an XR6. Anything below that range, you'd be looking at a base spec mondeo, and then below that a camry. And if you can get a camry, may as well get a second hand XR6. XT would have to start at the 28-30k range in order to not warrant getting the much better XR6.

I don't know that I'd say most...unless you're saying 'most' people can't afford to pay cash for a brand new car, but I don't think you are.

Each vehicle appeals to a specific demographic, they're floating about all over the place, and to be honest, they aren't fleet cars, not the ones I've seen anyway...

To some people, that extra money, is a lot of money...particularly when you have to borrow to buy...

but at the end of the day - the decision is up to the Ford management to figure out...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Spot on. Considering the XT has slightly different tail lights compared to G6, no lights in the bumper bar (covers instead), it's amazing that Ford waste money on those little things, like when they removed the lockable fuel flap when FGs came out just to save 5 cents per car (that was a bad move), but they waste $5 per car on building the XT with all the small differences. Defies belief.

There's also more difference between the XT and XR6 besides the body kit as another poster above mentioned. XR6 with better seats and steering wheel ticks all the right boxes.

Make G6 the base model and be done with it. Simple really.

In my opinion, the money Ford spent money trying to elevate the original
steel wheeled FG XT to a poor version of the G6 wasn't really worth it.

G Series:
1) G6 = leather and technology and safety pack standard
2) G6T = Turbo version of G6 with power train and suspension upgrades
3) G8 = V8 version of G6 with power train and suspension upgrades

Titanium Pack available for all models = Ultimate in luxury and every option conceivable.

XR Series:
1) XR6 = Sports suspension, more powerful engine, body kit
2) XRT = Turbo version of XR6 with power train and suspension upgrades
3) XR8 = V8 version of XR6 with power train and suspension upgrades

Titanium Pack available for all models = Ultimate in luxury and every option conceivable.

I think a spread of G and XR Models that covers both luxury buyers and fleet buyers
is an infinity better strategy, a modest V8 is all that's needed - maybe the 280 KW F150 version.

[Gomez]

I purchased a six speed auto XR50 last week for under $35K driveaway.

It's a great value car and $12K under the cost of a new auto EF XR8 (my last Falcon). Add sixteen years of inflation and the new Falcon (with all the bells and whistles over the EF) seems like a $15K purchase!!

Get one before they're all gone.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Gomez

I purchased a six speed auto XR50 last week for under $35K driveaway.

It's a great value car and $12K under the cost of a new auto EF XR8 (my last Falcon). Add sixteen years of inflation and the new Falcon (with all the bells and whistles over the EF) seems like a $15K purchase!!

Get one before they're all gone.

Incredible value!

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In my opinion, the money Ford spent money trying to elevate the original
steel wheeled FG XT to a poor version of the G6 wasn't really worth it.

G Series:
1) G6 = leather and technology and safety pack standard
2) G6T = Turbo version of G6 with power train and suspension upgrades
3) G8 = V8 version of G6 with power train and suspension upgrades

Titanium Pack available for all models = Ultimate in luxury and every option conceivable.

XR Series:
1) XR6 = Sports suspension, more powerful engine, body kit
2) XRT = Turbo version of XR6 with power train and suspension upgrades
3) XR8 = V8 version of XR6 with power train and suspension upgrades

Titanium Pack available for all models = Ultimate in luxury and every option conceivable.

I think a spread of G and XR Models that covers both luxury buyers and fleet buyers
is an infinity better strategy, a modest V8 is all that's needed - maybe the 280 KW F150 version.

Nah. You're blurring the lines too much. Titanium packs as you put it would just be confusing.

It should be:

G4 (EcoBoost)
G4E (EcoBoost)
G6: With Turbo or EcoLPi.
G6E: With Turbo or EcoLPi.
G8
G8E

XR4
XR6
XR6T
XR8

All models available with the return of the good old S pack. Which comes with bigger rims, electronically adjustable sports suspension, bigger brakes, and some S decals.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

More tech, more options, more more more.

I like that.

But $34,990 for the XR6 is a rip-off considering what you get at the moment is pretty average.

XR6 is awesome. It has everything you'd need. Don't be a tool Damo.

Besides, Ford is busy working on tech at the mome... so we just have to wait till it can be all thrown into the stuff we make here.

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I don't know that I'd say most...unless you're saying 'most' people can't afford to pay cash for a brand new car, but I don't think you are.

Each vehicle appeals to a specific demographic, they're floating about all over the place, and to be honest, they aren't fleet cars, not the ones I've seen anyway...

To some people, that extra money, is a lot of money...particularly when you have to borrow to buy...

but at the end of the day - the decision is up to the Ford management to figure out...

Basically my point was. Any Australian buying a new car these days, and were considering an XT... would be stable enough financially, or could stretch to an XR6.... and why the bloody hell wouldn't you?

[SteveJH]

And you think having a titanium option would be expensive??

XT
Zetec (G6 spec equiv, either I4t or I6).
Titanium (G6E spec equiv, either I4t, I6 or I6t)

Offer S (sports) pack with the above which would give XR side skirts & spoiler with the normal front for the model.

XR6 (with the turbo only)
XR8 (N/A Coyote)

XT &/or Zetec with the S pack would replace the N/A XR6.

[Buntz]

Maybe.

G4
G6

XR4
XR6/T
XR8

E4
E6/T
E8

Clear and concise. The letters stand for a defined trim level, and the number gives you the cylinder/power levels. So the customer knows where their car sits on the level immediately. I thought I would stick with Ford's defined 'E' for luxury. It also has the benefit of not needing a G8... which has been a Holden on holiday... and we don't want that. All models available with sprint(sport) packs, tech packs, or accessory packs. Or customise what you'd like installed.

I'm actually quite chuffed with myself. The good idea's just flowing.

[SteveJH]

Why have 8 trim levels when you can have 5 though? Reducing the number of badges would give increased 'badge' recognition IMO, plus its much simpler.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Why have 8 trim levels when you can have 5 though? Reducing the number of badges would give increased 'badge' recognition IMO, plus its much simpler.

Because basically you're just introducing more trim levels... but adding words to one already there.

This would be 8 static trim levels. Okay... yes. I did mention the S pack. But the packs don't have to added to the name. Unfortunately 'Titanium' does/is used throughout the Ford brand.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Because basically you're just introducing more trim levels... but adding words to one already there.

What am I adding? it would be bringing the falcon into line with the other vehicles with the other vehicles in the Ford Australia catalogue.

This would be 8 static trim levels. Okay... yes. I did mention the S pack. But the packs don't have to added to the name. Unfortunately 'Titanium' does/is used throughout the Ford brand.

I wouldn't say 'unfortunately', i'd say the opposite, 'fortunately'. If the same trim names are used in every model, anyone who has purchased any ford, even if its not a falcon will know, 'oh, titanium, it must be the top spec one'. Now its, 'G6, what the hell does that mean?'.

But then, thats just my opinion.

[FPV GTHO]

I think Ford have been burnt enough with unrecognised value packs doing nothing for resale. If FG2 has any boxes you can tick that will set the car apart, be it economy related with LPG or spec related with however Titanium spec might be integrated, i'll bet you'll see it on the boot.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

And you think having a titanium option would be expensive??

XT
Zetec (G6 spec equiv, either I4t or I6).
Titanium (G6E spec equiv, either I4t, I6 or I6t)

Offer S (sports) pack with the above which would give XR side skirts & spoiler with the normal front for the model.

XR6 (with the turbo only)
XR8 (N/A Coyote)

XT &/or Zetec with the S pack would replace the N/A XR6.

I agree with most of this, except for the replacing the NA XR6. Definitely not. It accounts for 70% of sales and IMO the XR is the strongest brand name after GT. The Zetec and Titanium models are gaining momentum in the other model lines. Alot of people now know Zetec as the sporty Ford and Titanium as top of the range Ford. Using them adds to consistency.

These 3 models could have a sub badge of 2.0T / 4.0 / EcoLPi
XT
Zetec
Titanium

These 3 models could have a sub badge of EcoLPi only.
XR6
XR6T
XR8

[SteveJH]

I'd pay that.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

What am I adding? it would be bringing the falcon into line with the other vehicles with the other vehicles in the Ford Australia catalogue.



I wouldn't say 'unfortunately', i'd say the opposite, 'fortunately'. If the same trim names are used in every model, anyone who has purchased any ford, even if its not a falcon will know, 'oh, titanium, it must be the top spec one'. Now its, 'G6, what the hell does that mean?'.

But then, thats just my opinion.

"Wow. Whataya got there mate?" "I have a G6E Turbo Titantium... or is it Titanium Turbo?", "What, it is has a titanium turbo?". "No it's a Titanium Turbo", "But it's not Titanium?", "No it's Titanium... but the Turbo isn't made of titanium, the trim level is titanium.". "So it has titanium on the inside? Like as opposed to brushed aluminium or something stylish?", "No they just call the top spec trim titanium, and coz I bought the turbo version.. I have a Ford Falcon G6E Turbo Titanium". "Mate... what you have there is a mouthful."

Sorry . But I hate Zetec and Titanium and all that other crap. Ghia was fine, as it was only one, and it's short and sweet.

But having a letter class like Audi and Mercedes. All that matter is what class it's in.

Now it goes like this. "Hey mate, what ya got there?", "An E6T". "What's that?", "A Ford Falcon E6T.". "She looks sharp", "yeah, E is the highest spec trim.". "Ahh... okay, powerful?", "Yeah, this is the turbo 6 model... which is what '6T' stands for.". "Ahh gotcha... awesome car mate.", "Cheers".

[SteveJH]

Err, not what I'm saying.

Trims will be:

Ford Falcon XT
Ford Falcon Zetec
Ford Falcon Titanium
Ford Falcon XR6
Ford Falcon XR8

The G6, G6E etc names are gone, consigned to the history books.

Like with the Mondeo though, within each trim option there might be various engine choices. Either they can go with just the trim badge, or under that you could add an "ecoboost", "ecoLPI" or "turbo" badge. Name the car for the trim level, not for the engine.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Err, not what I'm saying.

Trims will be:

Ford Falcon XT
Ford Falcon Zetec
Ford Falcon Titanium
Ford Falcon XR6
Ford Falcon XR8

The G6, G6E etc names are gone, consigned to the history books.

Like with the Mondeo though, within each trim option there might be various engine choices. Either they can go with just the trim badge, or under that you could add an "ecoboost", "ecoLPI" or "turbo" badge. Name the car for the trim level, not for the engine.

Ahh... I see.

However I don't think those name plates will gel with the Falcon. Especially Zetec. Which sounds ****y and weak.

And remember, you also have to add more badge names with things like Turbo, EcoBoost, and EcoLPi. Which would fit under a three digit name easier.

So instead of I have the Falcon Titanium EcoBoost (or what happens when Ford make a turbo LiLPG... Falcon Titanium Turbo EcoLPi?), it'd be the Falcon E4. Instead of Falcon Zetec Turbo.. you'd have Falcon G6T.

When Ford decided that these marketing terms needed to be slapped on cars. They knew that big names like Fairmont and Fairlane had to go.