The rising price (and associated costs) of Oil / Petrol Discussion Thread.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by SeXC

and if you had of read my previous posts before jumping on the whiney express, you would read that i said remote areas were an exception.

And if it was close enough that you could warrant catching a taxi, you could ride a bike or walk. I have done it in times when i couldnt afford to fix my car (45minute bike ride to the train station)

AND you completely ignored the part where i said if fuel was a problem then buy a scooter and only pay 10 bucks per week.

No one has an excuse to complain until they have ABSOLUTELY no other option.

Unfortunately its not just remote areas, I live in the suburbs and public transport is pretty much useless for my wife. It takes her approx. 45 minutes to get to and from work, the same trip via public transport would be over 2 hours.

Some people can take advantage of public transport some people cant - the people that cant are going to complain about higher fuel costs - because they dont have any other option.

[Fev]

We'll the good thing is saudi arabia have increase oil production to help with the rising prices, although i cant imagine the fuel companies putting the prices down any time soon, bastards.

[SeXC]

This is the final time i am going to post in this thread, because ive decided that while the general Australian wants to be seen as "The Great Aussie Battler" hard done by with fuel prices and his "need" to have a big aussie uneconomical six all the majority are is the "Great Aussie Whinger".

If you dont want to drive 100ks, move closer.

If you dont WANT to spend 2 hours on and you cant afford to move closer, buy a cheaper car to run.

If you dont want to have your office clothes wet or slightly crinkled (waa) then buy a waterproof bag and fold your clothes neatly. And on that, i ride motorbikes and i used to work in the cbd in a suit for two years with nothing but a motorbike, rain hail or shine and my shirt never got wrinkled.

Long story shirt,

Have a big jug of concrete and harden the fudge up Australia.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by SeXC

This is the final time i am going to post in this thread, because ive decided that while the general Australian wants to be seen as "The Great Aussie Battler" hard done by with fuel prices and his "need" to have a big aussie uneconomical six all the majority are is the "Great Aussie Whinger".

If you dont want to drive 100ks, move closer.

If you dont WANT to spend 2 hours on and you cant afford to move closer, buy a cheaper car to run.

If you dont want to have your office clothes wet or slightly crinkled (waa) then buy a waterproof bag and fold your clothes neatly. And on that, i ride motorbikes and i used to work in the cbd in a suit for two years with nothing but a motorbike, rain hail or shine and my shirt never got wrinkled.

Long story shirt,

Have a big jug of concrete and harden the fudge up Australia.

Well Australias response by commenting on a forum is better than other countries rioting over fuels cost - wouldnt you agree?

Your commenting on your situation, however you have failed to comprehend that other people live in different circumstances than you and your so called answers are not practical for these people.

By the way I am not complaining about fuel cost I am suggesting that it is an issue that effects a great many people globally and hopefully there will be some answers. I do feel for people that are struggling with rising fuel and associated living costs and I hope things ease up for them but I doubt it

For the record my wife lives about 30K's from work and drives a Corolla

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Fev

We'll the good thing is saudi arabia have increase oil production to help with the rising prices, although i cant imagine the fuel companies putting the prices down any time soon, bastards.

The Saudi's Opening up the TAPS and Rudd pleading them to do so is not a fix... its like giving a drug addict another 'hit'. it's a short term solution (possibly). The long term solution is for the global economy to put an end to the reliance on OIL... Can that happen??? not anytime soon imho...

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Fev

We'll the good thing is saudi arabia have increase oil production to help with the rising prices, although i cant imagine the fuel companies putting the prices down any time soon, bastards.

We all know that oil is a finite resource but it's not the Saudi's fault for the price of oil.

It was stated a couple of months ago that it's people playing the stock market that has caused the most headaches and i'm sure big oil companys are giving investers false infomation in the hope the price keeps rising.

One thing that has really stuffed every market up is by aligning there currency verse the US $. If we'd all kept our currency alligned with Gold, i believe there wouldn't be such a big impact on the price at the bowser. If you have watched the markets, gold always rises with the price of crude. I know theres more to it than that, but every little bit helps.

[omn1potent]

Petrol prices spike in NSW, Vic, SA

Wed Jun 18 2008

Petrol prices continue to climb.
By Jamie Duncan

Petrol prices hit record highs of almost $1.72 a litre in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide on Wednesday, with one expert predicting further pain at the bowser for struggling motorists.

Prices at some service stations in the three cities reached 171.9 cents per litre on Wednesday afternoon.

The price spike came a day early in Adelaide, where motorists normally expect a rise on Thursday.

In Sydney, the spike meant a price jump of up to 20 cents a litre at some outlets since Wednesday morning.

Melbourne prices have already settled back to just below $1.70 a litre.

Chris Kable, the managing director of independent fuel monitoring service FuelTrac, said he was not surprised by the records.

"The Queen's Birthday long weekend a couple of weeks ago, on the Friday there was a $US11 spike in refined (oil) products and that basically has now flowed through to the Australian market," Mr Kable said.

"It's normal for that flow-on affect to take between 10 days and two weeks to reach consumers in Australia.

"But, (oil prices have) come down a lot since then so hopefully next week we may not see the same weekly high as we have seen this week."

Last week, economists predicted Sydney drivers would be hit with $1.75 a litre unleaded within a fortnight.

Mr Kable did not rule out a further price hike.

RACV government and corporate relations manager David Cumming said the price hike was "totally and utterly unacceptable".

"It was well out of the normal range of increases," he said.

Mr Cumming said the new record in Melbourne was forced by a 1.5 cent-per-litre increase in the wholesale fuel price, with further rises expected in the next two weeks.

"Don't be surprised if it goes much higher. We are having wholesale price increases every week, so we are seeing new records every week," he said.

"Once prices hit their peak, hopefully they will start to go back (down) but that could be several weeks away."

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by SeXC

This is the final time i am going to post in this thread, because ive decided that while the general Australian wants to be seen as "The Great Aussie Battler" hard done by with fuel prices and his "need" to have a big aussie uneconomical six all the majority are is the "Great Aussie Whinger".

If you dont want to drive 100ks, move closer.

If you dont WANT to spend 2 hours on and you cant afford to move closer, buy a cheaper car to run.

If you dont want to have your office clothes wet or slightly crinkled (waa) then buy a waterproof bag and fold your clothes neatly. And on that, i ride motorbikes and i used to work in the cbd in a suit for two years with nothing but a motorbike, rain hail or shine and my shirt never got wrinkled.

Long story shirt,

Have a big jug of concrete and harden the fudge up Australia.

Mate, sorry but you are a tool.

1. Tradies. How the hell are they supposed to get all of their gear to and from work on a motorbike/scooter/train/bus?

2. More than one working person in the house. I work in Wollongong, my finacee works in Bankstown. One of us has to drive, and for the record my car is on gas. But it isn't cheap to transfer over, some people would have trouble raising the capital. It also isn't as simple as getting a new job.

3. Public transport is useless across the majority of the country. I'm sorry but it is. It takes longer (1.5 hours vs 20 minutes) and costs more for my fiancee to get public transport to work. And that is to a local hospital from a typical southern sydney suburb for Gods sake! It was quicker for me to drive to uni and not much more expensive either. To get to work on public transport, by the time I factor in the extra time I spend on trains I am significanlty worse off. So why should we disadvantage ourselves? If public transport was cheaper and not twice as long to get anywhere I would take it.

4. It can be expensive to buy a new/different car. All the government expenses makes it hard. Many people can't afford to change over, as dealers won't give them enough, they cant afford to be without a car in the transition, or they can't afford to have 2 cars while the other is selling. That is reality.

Also, please take not that I am not "whinging". Petrol prices were hurting me, yes, but I was fortunate enough to be able to do something about it. Many people can't. Try opening your eyes to people who are in very different situations to your own.

I'm sorry if you cannot understand that some families really are struggling. It seems that Australia is becoming a country of "I'm ok, stuff the rest of you". Sad.

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by SeXC

This is the final time i am going to post in this thread, because ive decided that while the general Australian wants to be seen as "The Great Aussie Battler" hard done by with fuel prices and his "need" to have a big aussie uneconomical six all the majority are is the "Great Aussie Whinger".

If you dont want to drive 100ks, move closer.

If you dont WANT to spend 2 hours on and you cant afford to move closer, buy a cheaper car to run.

If you dont want to have your office clothes wet or slightly crinkled (waa) then buy a waterproof bag and fold your clothes neatly. And on that, i ride motorbikes and i used to work in the cbd in a suit for two years with nothing but a motorbike, rain hail or shine and my shirt never got wrinkled.

Long story shirt,

Have a big jug of concrete and harden the fudge up Australia.

i like how u think

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

At least you've got a Taxi service.

It will be regional areas that will suffer the most from fuel prices. See how the government reacts when a loaf of bread is $30

And all this time I thought that Wagga was a regional area!

Originally Posted by SeXC

and if you had of read my previous posts before jumping on the whiney express, you would read that i said remote areas were an exception.

And if it was close enough that you could warrant catching a taxi, you could ride a bike or walk. I have done it in times when i couldnt afford to fix my car (45minute bike ride to the train station)

AND you completely ignored the part where i said if fuel was a problem then buy a scooter and only pay 10 bucks per week.

No one has an excuse to complain until they have ABSOLUTELY no other option.

Not "Jumping on the whiney express" at all. Just pointing a few things out. Like you stating that I could walk or ride instead of the Taxi option...yeah right. I can see me on a pushbike with my overnight bag, esky, and tool box (these are the things I have to take every time I go to work). Of course with a scooter I could always get a trailer.

[kempster1]

Originally Posted by omn1potent

Petrol prices spike in NSW, Vic, SA

Wed Jun 18 2008

Petrol prices continue to climb.
By Jamie Duncan

Petrol prices hit record highs of almost $1.72 a litre in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide on Wednesday, with one expert predicting further pain at the bowser for struggling motorists.

Prices at some service stations in the three cities reached 171.9 cents per litre on Wednesday afternoon.

The price spike came a day early in Adelaide, where motorists normally expect a rise on Thursday.

In Sydney, the spike meant a price jump of up to 20 cents a litre at some outlets since Wednesday morning.

Melbourne prices have already settled back to just below $1.70 a litre.

Chris Kable, the managing director of independent fuel monitoring service FuelTrac, said he was not surprised by the records.

"The Queen's Birthday long weekend a couple of weeks ago, on the Friday there was a $US11 spike in refined (oil) products and that basically has now flowed through to the Australian market," Mr Kable said.

"It's normal for that flow-on affect to take between 10 days and two weeks to reach consumers in Australia.

"But, (oil prices have) come down a lot since then so hopefully next week we may not see the same weekly high as we have seen this week."

Last week, economists predicted Sydney drivers would be hit with $1.75 a litre unleaded within a fortnight.

Mr Kable did not rule out a further price hike.

RACV government and corporate relations manager David Cumming said the price hike was "totally and utterly unacceptable".

"It was well out of the normal range of increases," he said.

Mr Cumming said the new record in Melbourne was forced by a 1.5 cent-per-litre increase in the wholesale fuel price, with further rises expected in the next two weeks.

"Don't be surprised if it goes much higher. We are having wholesale price increases every week, so we are seeing new records every week," he said.

"Once prices hit their peak, hopefully they will start to go back (down) but that could be several weeks away."

I dream about fuel that cheap :

We have paid more than that for over a year..

[Yellow_Festiva]

Flicking through my travel pics, specifically Cologne, Germany and this is what I found:



Ok, the date is correct, so that was 2 years ago.

Regular Diesel:_______1.149 EUR = 1.88292 AUD

Regular Unleaded:____1.349 EUR = 2.20967 AUD

Super Unleaded:_____1.369 EUR = 2.24283 AUD

V-Power:___________1.459 EUR = 2.39028 AUD

V-Power Diesel:______1.249 EUR = 2.04590 AUD

Hmmm just posted it seeing as it was a topic of discussion. May be interesting to some ppl.

Jason

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

3. Public transport is useless across the majority of the country. I'm sorry but it is. It takes longer (1.5 hours vs 20 minutes) and costs more for my fiancee to get public transport to work.

Agree 100%

Public transport for me to get to work:

200metre walk to Bus 1
Bus 1 = $4.80
1km walk to bus 2 (this could be replaced by bus 1a, but walking is quicker)
Bus 2 = $4.80
200metre walk to bus 3
Bus 3 = $4.00
800metre walk to office

This entire process takes almost 2.5 hours
and it is a 40 minute(max) drive (cruise control - few lights)

Driving was at least 3hrs a day quicker (return trip) and about half the cost (petrol only)


Please dont anyone say public transport ever again, or I'll come around a rip your blo*dy arms off.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Link
Approx one quarter of the Australian mainland would need to be covered in and growing Soy Beans to supply the US of A with one years supply of diesel. Kinda puts it into perspective.

Nice stat, but largely irrelevant.

We are actually more interested in producing fuel for Au in Au.

If we were looking at initial setup of an oil industry to provide all Australia's needs from Crude oil, it too would seem impossible.

The Oil industry grew over time (many decades) and improved in efficiency.

The only workable solution is to create an environment where this can happen with either Bio-Diesel, or Alcohol fuel (or both)

This is where the government, if it was really concerned about the environment, and the price of power, could actually step in.

By laying out a progressive plan, over say 15 years, of moving to say 80% Bio- diesel in our diesel, and 80% ethanol in our ULP/PULP, the industry would grow, and improve in effeciency.

This could be applied with a rule that there should be no more increase in cost than the CPI increase.
It could be applied to either the vehicles sold in Au, or the Fuel supplied, or both
It could also be mandated that the natural resource input needs to be 80% Australian sourced.

Any comments ?

Greg

[King Nothing]

I've just come back from a conference, some people presenting were world experts on global fuels. The general consensus was that we will be dependant on fossil fuels for at least the next 50 years.

Yes, traditional oil sources may be drying up but really it's only the tip of the iceberg. To date, the world has used ~1 trillion barrels of oil. In the Canadian oil sands alone, there is 1.7 trillon barrels. The value of that alone at todays prices is hundreds of trillions of dollars!

North america has an estimated 2 trillion barrels of shale oil. North Queensland reserves, which have not been explored to their full potential, is about 16 billion barrels.

Frankly there is just too much money sitting there to be ignored. And I haven't even touched on coal-to-liquid technology. So while the cost of oil will probably never drop back to previous levels, some people indicated that the market was undergoing a correction and may settle between $90-100/barrel.

At the very least expect to be driving diesel for some time to come. Most likely we will still have petrol cars. Ethanol will hang around but will never be a baseline resource. Electricity cars will probably become popular but the sheer value of oil and the availability of it will mean it will be used in some way, shape or form for decades.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Flicking through my travel pics, specifically Cologne, Germany and this is what I found:

Ok, the date is correct, so that was 2 years ago.
Regular Diesel:_______1.149 EUR = 1.88292 AUD
Regular Unleaded:____1.349 EUR = 2.20967 AUD
Super Unleaded:_____1.369 EUR = 2.24283 AUD
V-Power:___________1.459 EUR = 2.39028 AUD
V-Power Diesel:______1.249 EUR = 2.04590 AUD

Hmmm just posted it seeing as it was a topic of discussion. May be interesting to some ppl.

Jason

Not quite a valid comparison, espically when you consider 40% of costs associated with petrol is tax. Considering Australia is one of the few countries to have both crippling Income tax and GST why we pay so much excise on other goods is questionable. But I'm going off on a tangent.

To compare the results you need to factor in the average wage of the good German folk, tax, other costs of living etc.

Sorry, but this is the usual spin doctoring the oil companies spew out to deflect any negative attention from themselves. I'm just curious as to how they justify the prices in Europe etc.

Shell Germany "Look on the bright side, in Australia they have almost no rail network, a handful of airports and some people have to drive 600k just to visit the dentist"

[SB076]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Nice stat, but largely irrelevant.

We are actually more interested in producing fuel for Au in Au.

If we were looking at initial setup of an oil industry to provide all Australia's needs from Crude oil, it too would seem impossible.

The Oil industry grew over time (many decades) and improved in efficiency.

The only workable solution is to create an environment where this can happen with either Bio-Diesel, or Alcohol fuel (or both)

This is where the government, if it was really concerned about the environment, and the price of power, could actually step in.

By laying out a progressive plan, over say 15 years, of moving to say 80% Bio- diesel in our diesel, and 80% ethanol in our ULP/PULP, the industry would grow, and improve in effeciency.

This could be applied with a rule that there should be no more increase in cost than the CPI increase.
It could be applied to either the vehicles sold in Au, or the Fuel supplied, or both
It could also be mandated that the natural resource input needs to be 80% Australian sourced.

Any comments ?

Greg

I personally beleive its not really an option. Australia does have the land mass to provide the crops required to generate fuel - however most of that land mass is arid and is not capable of growing crops. I think given the current climate and the dificulties a lot of farmers are having producing crops (with little rain in some areas of Aus) I dont see how we could grow enough crops to support both the fuel and food industry and if crops fail one year what do you stop food or fuel?

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by SB076

I personally beleive its not really an option. Australia does have the land mass to provide the crops required to generate fuel - however most of that land mass is arid and is not capable of growing crops. I think given the current climate and the dificulties a lot of farmers are having producing crops (with little rain in some areas of Aus) I dont see how we could grow enough crops to support both the fuel and food industry and if crops fail one year what do you stop food or fuel?

Yes, that is according to how things look to us at the moment.

It could be that my 80% is too aggressive, or my 15 years.

But my angle is that there are many unknowns, and once big business is involved, with a Government mandate, there will be only one way for them to make profit. Innovation will be directed at yield rates - that is using arable land mass effectively to supply as much as possible.
Who knows what is out there that we have not considered (as Oil is so profitable)
- Fermenting garbage in the desert.
- Planting/Harvesting seaweed and fermenting that (or extracting Oil from it)
- Squashing used mobile phones to extract the sebum

My point is that there is currently no incentive for business to innovate to provide alternate combustible fuels.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Agree 100%

Public transport for me to get to work:

200metre walk to Bus 1
Bus 1 = $4.80
1km walk to bus 2 (this could be replaced by bus 1a, but walking is quicker)
Bus 2 = $4.80
200metre walk to bus 3
Bus 3 = $4.00
800metre walk to office

This entire process takes almost 2.5 hours
and it is a 40 minute(max) drive (cruise control - few lights)

Driving was at least 3hrs a day quicker (return trip) and about half the cost (petrol only)


Please dont anyone say public transport ever again, or I'll come around a rip your blo*dy arms off.

I found the same. I looked into getting public transport from home (Ingleburn) to work (Lakemba).

One of the suggested routes was 5 steps! I almost fell off my seat.

Even if it was free I wouldn't bother. Train, Train, walk, bus, bus, walk. And if even ONE of those links is behind or not running your stuffed.

What a joke. It is FAR CHEAPER to drive, and a trip of 1hr+ with public transport is 45 minutes in the car.

[marty__mofoco]

when my father was my age (20) to fill up your car it cost a quater of your wage, in 2008 the average weekly wage is 1100 a week, so if you think about it like that id rather pay 1.70 a litre compared the equivalent of about 5$ a litre.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by marty__mofoco

when my father was my age (20) to fill up your car it cost a quater of your wage, in 2008 the average weekly wage is 1100 a week, so if you think about it like that id rather pay 1.70 a litre compared the equivalent of about 5$ a litre.

Dunno too many 20 year olds that makee 1100 a week net. Was your old man earning average wage when he was 20?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Any comments ?

Greg

I don't think logic comes into it... well not if you follow what this guy is saying:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...98272&q=&hl=en

It's a long video (about 75mins) but its very thought provoking. In summary, we are paying high oil prices because we are paying off America's debt (i.e. by buying oil in USD).

I wonder why people haven't rallied on the streets in protest at the high oil prices (in similar vein to the truckies, today). Surely it would put some downward pressure on oil prices if the powers that be incurred the wrath from angry people?

[rodderz]

SSbaby....havent seen you around in a while!

This guy from OPEC says that oil prices are high because they think that oil demand will drop over the next few years, meaning they wont commit to developing the facilities to produce more barrels per day
http://www.news.com.au/business/stor...39-462,00.html

I dont think oil demand will drop for a while yet

[snappy]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Dunno too many 20 year olds that makee 1100 a week net. Was your old man earning average wage when he was 20?

My old man had the same job as me .Was making what i am now 15 years ago

[Vile Merchant]

Originally Posted by rodderz

I dont think oil demand will drop for a while yet

Nope, with China and India looking to develop into modern economies oil demand can't possibly drop. We will soon get to the point where the amount of barrels per day needed by the world will exceed the amount of barrels per day we are physically able to pump out of the ground. That's when we'll see some real interesting petrol prices, ie/ we're screwed.

[omn1potent]

Petrol hits record $1.75, tips recession.

09:37 AEST Thu Jul 10 2008

The price of petrol has jumped 17 cents overnight.

The federal government has ordered an investigation into reports some petrol stations have been caught red-handed holding back fuel at the cheapest time of the week.

The price of petrol skyrocketed to a record high overnight, stoking fears that the Australian economy could be lurching towards recession.

The latest surge in prices comes amid ongoing reports some service stations are discouraging motorists from filling up at the cheapest time of the week, often on Tuesdays, by placing "not in use" signs on bowsers.

Some service stations in Sydney were on Thursday morning selling unleaded fuel for $1.75 a litre - more than 17 cents higher than Wednesday's average price of $1.58 listed by the NRMA.

Melbourne and Adelaide also recorded record highs prices of $1.75 for unleaded fuel.

The federal government has asked Petrol Commissioner Pat Walker to investigate claims petrol retailers are misleading motorists as to the availability of cheaper fuel.

Some motorists have reported being able to fill up their cars at bowsers that displayed "out of use" signs.

"There may be a legitimate reason for this," federal Assistant Treasurer Chris Bowen told ABC Radio.

"Often service stations keep a very small amount of petrol in a tank, not enough to keep cars serviced but they keep petrol in there because it's not good practice for them to let the tank run completely dry," he said.

"But it is concerning that this is happening several weeks in a row."

The latest surge in petrol prices have also boosted fears the Australian economy could be sliding towards recession.

"It's starting to push us into very dangerous territory," NRMA president Alan Evans said.

"We're already seeing people cutting back on discretionary expenditure quite significantly because they don't have many alternatives to using their car," he said.

"I'm really concerned it might have such a significant effect that it pushes us towards recession."

He said price jumps like Thursday's could not be excused as part of the weekly price cycle.

"The sort of jumps we're seeing - you just can't shrug your shoulders and say this is part of the weekly cycle - it really is going to badly effect the economy," he said.

If prices continued rising at this rate we might see petrol at $2 a litre before Christmas, he said.

"Hopefully we might see at least a plateau for a while, but if the trend continues, if there are any upsets in the Middle East, then I'm really fearful of what the consequences might be," he said.

[XR06T]

all we ever hear is how the higher oil price causes the price of petrol to increase..

in the last 3 days hasn't it fallen like $10/barrel? and petrol price skyrockets? whats the excuse this time?

[sgt_doofey]

Petrol hits record $1.75

Big deal. I've been paying over $1.80 a litre for diesel for a while now. Paid $1.859 this morning. Cost $99.88 for just under 54 litres. I've seen it for over $1.90 around the place as well.
I've also noticed that LPG has crept up over 70c/L as well. Grrrrrr.

[Vile Merchant]

Originally Posted by XR06T

all we ever hear is how the higher oil price causes the price of petrol to increase..

in the last 3 days hasn't it fallen like $10/barrel? and petrol price skyrockets? whats the excuse this time?

Petrol goes up EVERY Wednesday night/Thursday? It's no surprise, you can set your watch to it.

[exrtnz]

I worked out in the middle east for 18 months, lately and there prices have never moved at all, 20c US a litre in Kuwait and around 10c a litre in Dubai dunno about Saudi. But also the saudi,s are onto there last massive oilfield after thats gone dry they still have some smaller ones but not a hellova lot.
But Iraq on the other hand has approximately 90-110yrs of oil supply if pumped out at the current rate but all the major oil companies are looking at moving in and setting up there in the next 18months.