Holden secures $200m subsidy

[MNM96]

$200mil equates to roughly 12 weeks of Commodore sales. Not a lot really is it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by MNM96

$200mil equates to roughly 12 weeks of Commodore sales. Not a lot really is it.

Around 6,000 cars at $34,000 each + ORC

[jpd80]

A high profile commentator over on gminsidenews who has very good contacts with GM has said this yesterday:

Originally Posted by nsap

As of today that is the plan. I have seen said plan with my own eyes.

Holden will never again have to chance to develop its own program. The mothership has already told them this.

Now, when a very prominent and well connected GM commentator says that, a few heads are going to snap back......

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A high profile commentator over on gminsidenews who has very good contacts with GM has said this yesterday:


Now, when a very prominent and well connected GM commentator says that, a few heads are going to snap back......

damn.

as much as i prefer ford to holden, the end of rwd commos can only be bad for australia.

[jpd80]

Waiting with interest to see the death stories from Drive, bet they have an entirely different spin...

[nstg8a]

be hard to spin massive job losses, even for drivel.

even if they assemble ckd cars here, the work force required would be dramatically reduced wouldnt it?

[Whitey-AMG]

Personally i dont think the buying public care enough anymore and any parochial sense towards our local ford and holden products has been dead for years. When you see the number of cheap Hyundai and Kia and Ssanyong and Great Wall branded cars on the roads..... It makes it very clear that the majority of the buying public dont give $!!:7 about driving dynamics or local engineering input. Cheap purchase price....long warranty and cheap running costs in the short term are at the forefront. Having a global FWD platform from Holden is not going to kill their sales and most people wont even tell the difference....

Investing in Holden now to save them from exiting altogether will be cheaper cor all involved in the long run. It takes more than 200mill to set up an operation when you have nothing at all and at least with a local op you still get some chance of limited local input. We need Holden to stay. The long term spin off will more than pay for the 200 mill investment.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Waiting with interest to see the death stories from Drive, bet they have an entirely different spin...

"Holden to work with international team to design new world-beating Commo."...rather then "Holden to use simple "cut and paste" icons from Autocad 2015 for new Commo"

[uranium_death]

This is a good news.
On top of the employees of Holden, you have a plethora of suppliers who are almost dependent on Australian car manufacturing to stay alive.

I think it's inevitable that Australian-only models will disappear, but car manufacturing is damn-well important.

The short term cost of Centrelink providing people with their primary source of income will be horrendous and long term, some may also struggle to find work.

$200,000,000 is really quite cheap given the range of people that are affected if manufacturing dies.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Next you will be telling us that holden will actually be investing $1 billion dollars to get their hands on the government money.

And that is a bad thing becuases??


Sounds good to me, governemnt puts in 275M & GM put in 1B. The government has already increased investment in this country by 1B & that is even bofore we start talking about collecting compnay tax, personal income tax, carbn tax!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

be hard to spin massive job losses, even for drivel.

even if they assemble ckd cars here, the work force required would be dramatically reduced wouldnt it?

No As i understand it, the cars won't be CKD, panels will be staped here
so they need the same work force as for Commodore and current Cruze..

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

No he didn't.. Mike Devereux has very clearly said "not telling you" when questioned about any details for this vehicle..

read from this, form your own view's..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZqkZ05PCg

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by burnz

read from this, form your own view's..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZqkZ05PCg

Thankyou, you proved my point exactly!!!

He did not & has not comfimred RWD. What he did say was a large seden was coming, but nothing about RWD!!

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Thankyou, you proved my point exactly!!!

He did not & has not comfimred RWD. What he did say was a large seden was coming, but nothing about RWD!!

ok then..

[borough]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Waiting with interest to see the death stories from Drive, bet they have an entirely different spin...

Already started with the following article

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...322-1vmb4.html

Commodore dead ... or is it?

Top secret Commodore future is still under wraps.
The Australian Commodore is dead, but there will likely be Holden's fingerprints on the car that replaces it - which could be called Commodore.
Confused? Good, that's what Holden wants - for now, at least - so its competitors don't get a whiff of the crucial new model that will form the basis for the company's local operations out to at least 2022.
Yesterday's announcement that General Motors Holden will commit at least $1 billion to its local operations - on top of a generous $275 million government subsidy - prompted a barrage of questions to chairman and managing director Mike Devereux about what it means for the iconic large car.
Advertisement: Story continues below
It's understandable for a car with such a rich heritage. The Commodore has been produced locally since 1978, replacing a nameplate just as iconic - Kingswood. Until last year it was the best seller for 15 straight years.
And it's been sold in countries as diverse as the United States, the Middle East, China and Brazil. Everyone in Australia has heard of the Commodore.
Devereux batted down every question, giving few clues as to what the next all new car (due about 2018) may look - or feel - like, and, indeed, whether there will be a future Commodore.
"What the car looks like [has not] even been finalised, nor will it be for a couple of years," he said.
All he is saying is that Holden has committed to developing "well in excess of" $1 billion into two next generation models that will be produced alongside each other at the company's Elizabeth production line in South Australia.
He has all but confirmed that one of those cars will be the next generation Cruze small car and confirmed Holden's "extremely talented" design and engineering team "have been doing a lot of work on the next generation [small car architecture] Delta in our Port Melbourne studios."
As for the Commodore? That's another question, and Devereux is far more guarded about giving clues to what the replacement for the large car will be called, which almost certainly will the second architecture that will be built in Australia - among other countries.
"I'm not going to tell you," was the response when pushed on the Commodore's future, pointing to the secrecy within electronics giant Apple, even among its employees. "We're not going to talk ... about things that are commercially sensitive."
However, he reaffirmed his commitment to large cars, giving the strongest hint yet that a sizeable sedan of some sort will long term continue to be produced in Australia.
"I wouldn't be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in the [2013 VF] Commodore if I didn't believe in the large car segment," said Devereux. "I absolutely believe in it. Having the number two [selling] car in the country is a good thing."
However, there were also clues that the next generation Commodore could shrink; since 1978 every new generation Commodore has grown in size.
"Do I think there's a market for cars bigger than Cruzes and Corollas? Absolutely. Figuring out what vehicles larger than Cruze or Corolla or Mazda3 for Australia is is part of the magic of the car industry."
When pressed if that meant the locally-produced car could be a medium car, he said: "I'm not going to go down that path".
Another big unknown is whether the Commodore replacement - assuming that's the car that will be produced here - will drive the rear wheels, as most Australian-made large sedans have. Rear-wheel-drive is seen as a must for high-powered performance cars, including the V8-powered Commodores that in many ways define the Commodore brand and these days account for about one in four sales.
But the world has been trending to front-drive cars for decades, largely thanks to advantages with packaging (leading to more interior space) and reduced weight, which reduces fuel use.
Devereux wouldn't answer a specific question about front- or rear-wheel-drive, although he has previously said that rear-drive is a crucial part of the Commodore's DNA.
"I think [rear-wheel-drive] it's absolutely critical," Devereux told Drive last year. "It's a critical part of the DNA."
Devereux also said the new architectures would potentially use alternative fuels, including - possibly - diesel or even partially electric or hybrid drivetrains.
"We definitely have some ideas around all sorts of different powertrains, be they diesel powertrains ... or e-assist [partially electric] that are pretty popular. We haven't made decisions on those sorts of things."
As for the Australian-ness of the Commodore - a car initially spawned from a European Opel - it's likely to be further diluted. Although, again, there were few clues.
While he didn't repeat the words of one reporter asking if "the Australian Holden ... is dead?", he didn't disagree with the notion.
"Those are your words," he said.

[Rockape]

There not saying much about this over at LS1.

[jpd80]

Those people saying Australian manufacturing is dead take head:
1) one month ago Holden says we need $300 million or we're pulling out
2) Last week, the government agrees to $275 million funding and Holden agrees to stay for ten years and will in vest over $1 billion

That absolutely punches holes in the logic that we need to spend huge to keep manufacturing here.
If that's all it takes then hurry up and give Ford a similar deal and let's get on with making cars...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

When using a global or shared platform, the biggest savings come from sharing the development cost
and setting up common supplier networks and contracts, not so much from where it gets built.
The actual cost of labor in building a car is nowhere near as much as it was decades ago in the
days of manual body and paint shops. Automation has off set a lot of those labor costs.
and with a three to one government tip in on projects, you can bet the sums are right for local production.

Your missing one of the key elements though, production and sales volumes, which is what is Fords problem.

If they can't get the numbers up to decent levels they will continue to be seriously up against it.

[FPV8U]

They were openly talking about the Commodore being used as the NASCAR model for Chevy next year in the sprint cup, i'd say that goes a long way to confirming they will re-release of the production Models over there under the Chevy brand.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Your missing one of the key elements though, production and sales volumes, which is what is Fords problem.

If they can't get the numbers up to decent levels they will continue to be seriously up against it.

give it time mate, Ford has just crawled out of the fox hole and discovered that they actually have something called an advertising budget...
At the moment Ford seem to be testing the theory that if you tell people about your great products, they might start buying them..

We have to get past the doom and gloom of January and February and start talking with more confidence here and forget about death spirals...
It looks like the suits are throwing serious cash behind advertising, they want Falcon to work because, there is no plan B - people need to get that.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Waiting with interest to see the death stories from Drive, bet they have an entirely different spin...

Oh yes.

That douchebag Hagon has totally blocked my comments on their site for the past few days. Talk about censorship.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Waiting with interest to see the death stories from Drive, bet they have an entirely different spin...

Yep, i can see it now,

How holden were able to reduce fuel consumption by 50% in their new Large FWD Vehicle. Designed and built here in Australia....... for Australian's!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Oh yes.

That douchebag Hagon..............

Let the battle cry go out through the land.....

Perhaps the 2016 Falcon stays RWD with Ecoboost I-4, a v6 diesel and a 420 hp 5.0 V8 for all the ex SS Commodore buyers....

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Sorry, I didn't mean getting you in trouble, let's be frank it's tax minimization, avoidance, "legalized" cheating, etc, etc I don't like it as it hurt's one country, usually Aust. and favours another. Actually can't think of a situation where Aust ever gets a benefit in such global dealings, even with FTA's. This is where a global unified tax approach is needed but will never, ever happen. Hell, we have state vs state here in Oz trying to win (played by) corporate favour, imagine international interests, lol.

And I'm staggered at the lack of motoring media using the Commo could be dead tag. I guess the reason is Holden has pushed they line that they will be manufactuing her until 2022 while Ford gets hung up on what the next Falcon might be and can't offically say yet what it will be, where it will be sourced etc,..

Why is it that every country that has a lower tax regime than Australia is immediately labelled a “tax haven.”

Maybe if the Labour party could finally ditch their 19th century views, and actually promote business investment in Australia instead of trying to tax it to death,
We would have more jobs, a larger tax base, and less incentive for companies to push revenue offshore.

Australia SHOULD be one of the leading producers of Steel in the world. WE have the iron ore, the coal, and the gas, and it would be far cheaper to ship Steel around the world than the raw products. Plus it is a capital and technology intensive business rather than labour, so our higher labour costs would be more than offset.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Why is it that every country that has a lower tax regime than Australia is immediately labelled a “tax haven.”

Due to their huge losses in recent years Ford and Gm have a lot of tax credits they can use in USA
so it stands to reason that it's better to keep the profit there than transfer it to Australia where
it liable to 30% tax. Other places in Asia treat tax on export part sales differently to domestic retail.

Maybe if the Labor party could finally ditch their 19th century views, and actually promote business investment in Australia instead of trying to tax it to death,
We would have more jobs, a larger tax base, and less incentive for companies to push revenue offshore.

Two changes:
1) Lower the tax rate to 25% to encourage compliance and disuade negative gearing.
2) Allow decent claims on capitol expenditure so that companies can buy new
equipment instead band aiding maintenance regimes that attract deductions.

Australia SHOULD be one of the leading producers of Steel in the world. WE have the iron ore, the coal, and the gas, and it would be far cheaper to ship Steel around the world than the raw products. Plus it is a capital and technology intensive business rather than labour, so our higher labour costs would be more than offset.

Protection is rife in Korea, Japan, China, India and the USA.
Australian steel exports face a very unbalanced playing field..

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Let the battle cry go out through the land.....

Perhaps the 2016 Falcon stays RWD with Ecoboost I-4, a v6 diesel and a 420 hp 5.0 V8 for all the ex SS Commodore buyers....

It's a pity this forum blocks most profane words, because I could certainly use a few more to describe that person and his "articles".

I saw a current model Mondeo Titanium today. Looked hot. I liked the size of it too, and I was thinking, if the next gen Falcon was that size, RWD with a choice of EBI4T, 3.5 V6 and 3.5 EB and 5.0 for FPV's, it would surely be a winner. But it would have to be a global vehicle and have the requisite levels of equipment and fit and finish.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

They were openly talking about the Commodore being used as the NASCAR model for Chevy next year in the sprint cup, i'd say that goes a long way to confirming they will re-release of the production Models over there under the Chevy brand.

I laughed when I read that, would Chevy seriously use a niche foreign made vehicle as their Nascar.

Surely the redneck patriotic Chevy Nascar fans would go mental?

I'll believe it when I see it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I laughed when I read that, would Chevy seriously use a niche foreign made vehicle as their Nascar.

Surely the redneck patriotic Chevy Nascar fans would go mental?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Heck, it could be as simple as Malibu or Impala, NASCAR doesn't require the original car to be RWD.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Heck, it could be as simple as Malibu or Impala, NASCAR doesn't require the original car to be RWD.

Exactly, the Impala has been their Nascar for a while now hasn't it, and its FWD.

Just because they may release it in the US, which I find highly doubtful, does not mean it will be their Nascar as it is a RWD V8. They based their assumptions that the Commodore will be exported there because of that Nascar rumour too. And all they said was that a new Chevrolet model will form the basis of their Nascar.

It could be anything. As always with these journos its take 1+1 and get 50.

[jpd80]

Geelong is currently set up as an I-6 engine production line, what changes would be needed
to adapt it to I-4 Ecoboost or I-4 diesel and could it be done effectively without costing the earth?