Crypto $$$

[aussiblue]

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitco...-12/?r=AU&IR=T

Reminds me of the exotic banking financial instruments that were a significant factor the last (2007-2009) financial crisis in the US

Bitcoin could trigger the next financial crisis
Cryptocurrencies could trigger the next financial crisis if they become a systemic risk to the financial system, according to one cryptocurrency expert.
Although cryptocurrencies do not yet pose this risk to the system, if they become more widely embraced they could be destabilising.
The lack of reliable investment advice about cryptocurrencies could also cause many investors to "get hurt."

LONDON — Cryptocurrencies could trigger the next financial crisis if they become a systemic risk to the financial system, a cryptocurrency expert has said.

A growing range of financial institutions are expressing interest in cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin and ethereum. But in what is a fast moving situation, they could become "systemically important" to the point of posing a "systemic risk," according to Garrick Hileman, an economic historian at the University of Cambridge told Business Insider.

To date, said Hileman, "there haven't been enough people who hold them [cryptocurrencies] or institutions that own them, or enough credit or leverage used. Having said that, I can imagine scenarios — although I'm not predicting this — where they do become systemically important," he said.

Bitcoin has soared in value this year, rising over 1,000% against the dollar so far. This has prompted both increased interest and concern from investors and financial executives. EU and UK authorities are planning to crack down on bitcoin as concerns grow that cryptocurrencies are being used to facilitate financial crimes and launder money.

Were there to be another crash, said Hileman, it's possible there would be an even greater backlash against traditional banks than after 2008 — in the wake of which bitcoin was first developed — and cryptocurrencies could be even more widely embraced.

But, as a growing range of financial institutions enter the space, cryptocurrencies could also "trigger" the next crisis. Indicative of change, said Hileman, "we're seeing more hedge funds come into the space," and new investments such as a bitcoin futures market emerge.

A survey published on Tuesday by the Centre for Macroeconomics found the predominant view among economists is cryptocurrencies do not yet pose such a risk, because they are "too small and too detached from other financial markets."

But integration with more traditional financial markets is "starting to happen," said Hileman, and things are "moving very quickly."

Not only could cryptocurrencies threaten stability, said Hileman, they could also "exacerbate" the next crisis.

"You can now exit [traditional banking systems] relatively easily into something that is disconnected, and that could exacerbate a crisis," he said.

One crucial problem, said Hileman, is the lack of reliable information about the value of cryptocurrencies. The existence of "pump and dump" scams, where traders artificially inflate prices at investors' expense, is problematic, and this is compounded by the fact that valuation models "are still being developed."

"There's a fear of missing out — who can you trust is a difficult question," he said. This is an area that needs significant attention, said Hileman, or "a lot of people are going to get hurt."

[Trendseeker]

The Long Island Iced Tea Company changed its name to Long Blockchain and their share price jumped 289% in a day. The company has nothing to do with block chain or bitcoin, but the punters rushed in anyway.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/marke...21-p4yxz8.html

[PHATAL]

It is low again now. Bah should have waited!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Sioso]

Originally Posted by PHATAL

It is low again now. Bah should have waited!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I know waiting for money to clear is a pain.
I sent a Bpay payment a few days ago and it still isn't in there, I wanted to put in a low offer on XRP over the Christmas break and hopefully get some more at a good price.

[mr smith]

Can hear it deflating...are you people really that gullible? This will never be mainstream, it is fighting the house and in all gambling the house always wins.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Can hear it deflating...are you people really that gullible? This will never be mainstream, it is fighting the house and in all gambling the house always wins.

Deflating? Its gone up by $2,260 in the last 12 hours. Thats bitcoin, but I agree that BTC has probably had its day. How much have you researched crypto's?

[Lunch]

Gullible has nothing to do with it, ask yourself this, what if something ends up being worth $100 and you had the opportunity to get a handful when they were $1? Turning $10 into $1000 for doing nothing, that’s $10 I’m prepared to risk, imagine this, the guy standing next to you spent that $10 and you didn’t.

[PHATAL]

So I have been watching the price fluctuate over the last week. From what I have seen it looks like the price peaks around noonish and then the lowest is around 1 to 2 am (SA time).

So blokes what is your thoughts on this? Would it be a reasonable plan to say wait until the equity has increased by 20% then sell that additional 20%. Then wait until 1 am and then buy again at a lower price.

Would that then increase your total XRP thus creating more equity?

Obviously this would only work if the unstable trend keeps happening. Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Lunch]

I have thought about that as I’ve noticed that same pattern but for me to do it, I’d have to be confident I could buy back in close to or lower than my initial price, which I’m not, plus every buy/sell costs a % to conduct so you would have to be sure that the margin covers fee’s or you’ll be going backwards..
Another question I’ve yet to figure out is, for example, if you do sell high ( A ) and buy back in low ( B ) but not as low as the initial buy in ( C ) slightly increasing your holdings, is it better?

A: $1.60
B: $1.30
C: $1.10

Is 1.2 @ $1.30 better than 1 @ $1.10

To make 100% on $1.10 you only need $2.20 but on $1.30 you need $2.60 and so on...

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Lunch

I have thought about that as I’ve noticed that same pattern but for me to do it, I’d have to be confident I could buy back in close to or lower than my initial price, which I’m not, plus every buy/sell costs a % to conduct so you would have to be sure that the margin covers fee’s or you’ll be going backwards..
Another question I’ve yet to figure out is, for example, if you do sell high ( A ) and buy back in low ( B ) but not as low as the initial buy in ( C ) slightly increasing your holdings, is it better?

A: $1.60
B: $1.30
C: $1.10

Is 1.2 @ $1.30 better than 1 @ $1.10

To make 100% on $1.10 you only need $2.20 but on $1.30 you need $2.60 and so on...

Thats called trading. There are people that make a living from it. Its risky but can be very profitable. You really need to know what you are doing as well. Its too hard for me. I plan to just buy and sit. Its a five year plan.

[mr smith]

This stuff is worthless.
I have 20 painted rocks and that is all that will ever be made, can you give me $10000 for them?

Good work scamming the new players if you got in early but pyramid schemes have existed since the beginning of money.

[PHATAL]

Originally Posted by mr smith

This stuff is worthless.
I have 20 painted rocks and that is all that will ever be made, can you give me $10000 for them?

Good work scamming the new players if you got in early but pyramid schemes have existed since the beginning of money.

Could be right. Could be wrong. Either way this gives me something to play with for a little while.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by mr smith

This stuff is worthless.
I have 20 painted rocks and that is all that will ever be made, can you give me $10000 for them?

Good work scamming the new players if you got in early but pyramid schemes have existed since the beginning of money.

worthless, tell that to people that have cashed out and made a mint. I personally know someone who cashed out yesterday from alts at 350k from 7k invested a year ago. Now he waits for BTC to go back up and wallah, 220k after tax when BTC goes back up to 20k aussie, all for 7k. Gotta be in it to win it mate, no rich person ever became rich from not taking risks, but they all have a diverse portfolio. Spend what you can afford to lose and have fun.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by mr smith

This stuff is worthless.
I have 20 painted rocks and that is all that will ever be made, can you give me $10000 for them?

Good work scamming the new players if you got in early but pyramid schemes have existed since the beginning of money.

How much crypto research have you done?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

How much crypto research have you done?

It isn't that people have an issue with the technology behind the blockchain and crypto currencies, it is the extremely speculative nature of trade in altcoins that has people working themselves into a tizzy, on both sides of the fence. No amount of research will be able to bring sanity to the market, only a wipeout can do that.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Trump

It isn't that people have an issue with the technology behind the blockchain and crypto currencies, it is the extremely speculative nature of trade in altcoins that has people working themselves into a tizzy, on both sides of the fence. No amount of research will be able to bring sanity to the market, only a wipeout can do that.

Thats true. I have never invested in crypto coins before ripple. I have always gone down the property route. But if anyone spent just half an hour reading the facts about ripple they would see that it is probably the safest crypto to invest in. And its a bit of fun, espaecially now that I have taken all my initial money out. I have nothing to loose and everything to gain. I hope that everyone here can eventually do the same.

[Mercury Bullet]

Ripple down 7% in the last 24 hours.

176 billion lost in all crypto in the last 24 hours.
Bitcoin dropped from over $20,000 high to under $10,000 before rebounding slightly.

Korean exchange has been shut down for good after being hacked again.


It reeks of a pyramid scheme to me. Some might be lucky and get out in time.

[Trump]

I'm hearing a lot of stories of people that have been wiped out as a result of the recent BTC falls. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for them.

[Lunch]

I’m still seeing bitcoin above $19k

[Mercury Bullet]

Coinbase has suspended trading.

Blamed on Bitcoins dramatic loss of value (their words)

As at 11:35 (us time) the company is still monitoring the problem.

Says Bitcoin is now trading at 12,874 with some exchanges as low as 11,000.

[Lunch]

Ouch, feel sorry for the people that bought in high
i use btcmarkets they have it at $19,560 aud and up 6.3% today

[CJR09]

I use EToro and have it at 14500 approx

[GO FURTHER]

My thoughts on Ripple... And why it can only grow so much and won't see the same gains as Bitcoin.

The main problem with Ripple is that there will be too many "coins" in circulation.

Let's say there are around 35 Billion released out of a total of 100 Billion to be eventually released. (Some are being held back out, so its hard to estimate the exact figure out there already).

In contrast, Bitcoin is capped at a total of a mere 21 Million ever to be released.

Let's think about that for a moment...

If Ripple hit $220 that would make it worth $7.7 Trillion market cap.

Do you realize that the total value of all the world's coins and banknotes for all fiat currencies only totals $7.6 Trillion?

Similarly, all the world's above-ground gold reserves are estimated at 187,000 tonnes by the World Gold Council. That puts the total value at around $7.7 Trillion.

How could something overtake the value of almost all the fiat currencies or the even the all the gold reserves on the face of the Earth?

Let's go further...(No pun intended )

If Ripple at $1 was to one day hit $1,000, even at the current 35 Billion released, that would mean it would have a market capitalization of $35 Trillion!

The national US debt currently stands at $20 Trillion by comparison.

Does anyone really believe that Ripple would be worth nearly twice the current US debt level?

Some say that $1,000 is absurd and Ripple would never go that high....

But remember Bitcoin first traded in 2010 for $1 and went to over $20,000.... So why can't Ripple or any other Altcoin do the same?

Remember ALL Ripple has been "pre-mined" unlike Bitcoin.

Ripple has locked 55 billion (55% of the total possible supply) into a series of escrows. These escrows are on the ledger itself and the ledger mechanics, enforced by consensus, control the release of the XRP.

It will be released at one billion Ripple each month over the next 55 months.
So that's less than 5 years.

Let's say Ripple hit $1,000 on the total 100 Billion to be released....

That would give it a total market value of $100 Trillion!

$100 Trillion is more than the entirety of all the nominal value in earth's economy... This is simply not going to happen guys!

And don't forget, we have not yet taken into consideration the other 100 or so Cryptocurrencies and their total market capitalization into the equation based on growth.

The gains we are currently seeing with Altcoins is not physically possible nor sustainable in the future.

I'll admit I've made money investing in Altcoins, but I realize this unsustainable pyramid scheme cannot go on forever.

My advice is to make money while you can in the short term because it is not a long-term investment by any means.

If in the future the bulk of Cryptocurrencies crash leaving a few still standing, you will see a GFC a magnitude of times bigger than the Great Depression of 1929 - 1939 and will make grown men who drive Ford GT's cry and wish they were never born... Life will be so tough

[Trump]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

My thoughts on Ripple... And why it can only grow so much and won't see the same gains as Bitcoin.

The main problem with Ripple is that there will be too many "coins" in circulation.

Let's say there are around 35 Billion released out of a total of 100 Billion to be eventually released. (Some are being held back out, so its hard to estimate the exact figure out there already).

In contrast, Bitcoin is capped at a total of a mere 21 Million ever to be released.

Let's think about that for a moment...

If Ripple hit $220 that would make it worth $7.7 Trillion market cap.

Do you realize that the total value of all the world's coins and banknotes for all fiat currencies only totals $7.6 Trillion?

Similarly, all the world's above-ground gold reserves are estimated at 187,000 tonnes by the World Gold Council. That puts the total value at around $7.7 Trillion.

How could something overtake the value of almost all the fiat currencies or the even the all the gold reserves on the face of the Earth?

Let's go further...(No pun intended )

If Ripple at $1 was to one day hit $1,000, even at the current 35 Billion released, that would mean it would have a market capitalization of $35 Trillion!

The national US debt currently stands at $20 Trillion by comparison.

Does anyone really believe that Ripple would be worth nearly twice the current US debt level?

Some say that $1,000 is absurd and Ripple would never go that high....

But remember Bitcoin first traded in 2010 for $1 and went to over $20,000.... So why can't Ripple or any other Altcoin do the same?

Remember ALL Ripple has been "pre-mined" unlike Bitcoin.

Ripple has locked 55 billion (55% of the total possible supply) into a series of escrows. These escrows are on the ledger itself and the ledger mechanics, enforced by consensus, control the release of the XRP.

It will be released at one billion Ripple each month over the next 55 months.
So that's less than 5 years.

Let's say Ripple hit $1,000 on the total 100 Billion to be released....

That would give it a total market value of $100 Trillion!

$100 Trillion is more than the entirety of all the nominal value in earth's economy... This is simply not going to happen guys!

And don't forget, we have not yet taken into consideration the other 100 or so Cryptocurrencies and their total market capitalization into the equation based on growth.

The gains we are currently seeing with Altcoins is not physically possible nor sustainable in the future.

I'll admit I've made money investing in Altcoins, but I realize this unsustainable pyramid scheme cannot go on forever.

My advice is to make money while you can in the short term because it is not a long-term investment by any means.

If in the future the bulk of Cryptocurrencies crash leaving a few still standing, you will see a GFC a magnitude of times bigger than the Great Depression of 1929 - 1939 and will make grown men who drive Ford GT's cry and wish they were never born... Life will be so tough

You have just explained why any form of currency that isn't backed by anything tangible will revert to its intrinsic value, ZERO.

There are only two types of backing that will ensure a currency has real value and all of the other characteristics required of money:

- one that is backed by gold, silver or both.
- one that is backed by the value-added economic output of a country

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by Trump

You have just explained why any form of currency that isn't backed by anything tangible will revert to its intrinsic value, ZERO.

There are only two types of backing that will ensure a currency has real value and all of the other characteristics required of money:

- one that is backed by gold, silver or both.
- one that is backed by the value-added economic output of a country

No current currency is backed by gold any more. fractional reserve banking wouldn't work requiring actual gold (or insert shiny object here) per $ in the economy.

As for value added economic output, how is the work done by you or me digging **** outta the ground or turning an apple in to a pie (adding value) any different to the work input required to keep the blockchain networks running - this requires actual effort, electricity etc. Sure it's not as tangible, but many things we pay real money for aren't tangible these days, how many here have paid for music and didn't get a LP/tape/CD?, and even money isn't tangible anymore, with tap-n-go/paywave etc. your money is just a computer transfer of numbers - just like blockchain currencies?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by data_mine

No current currency is backed by gold any more. fractional reserve banking wouldn't work requiring actual gold (or insert shiny object here) per $ in the economy.

You are correct, there is no currency backed by a precious metal. The advent of fractional reserve banking put an end to it. The banks will sing the virtues of it but it is the single most destructive financial instrument the world has ever seen.

Originally Posted by data_mine

As for value added economic output, how is the work done by you or me digging **** outta the ground or turning an apple in to a pie (adding value) any different to the work input required to keep the blockchain networks running - this requires actual effort, electricity etc. Sure it's not as tangible, but many things we pay real money for aren't tangible these days, how many here have paid for music and didn't get a LP/tape/CD?, and even money isn't tangible anymore, with tap-n-go/paywave etc. your money is just a computer transfer of numbers - just like blockchain currencies?

There is a massive difference between algorithmically rearranging electrons and adding tangible value by turning a raw material into something of usefulness via the input of intellectual or creative forces. In a nutshell, turning the intangible into something tangible is the only way to create true wealth and value.

I might sound like a Luddite, but the balance between tangible and intangible needs to be restored.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

My thoughts on Ripple... And why it can only grow so much and won't see the same gains as Bitcoin.

The main problem with Ripple is that there will be too many "coins" in circulation.

Let's say there are around 35 Billion released out of a total of 100 Billion to be eventually released. (Some are being held back out, so its hard to estimate the exact figure out there already).

In contrast, Bitcoin is capped at a total of a mere 21 Million ever to be released.

Let's think about that for a moment...

If Ripple hit $220 that would make it worth $7.7 Trillion market cap.

Do you realize that the total value of all the world's coins and banknotes for all fiat currencies only totals $7.6 Trillion?

Similarly, all the world's above-ground gold reserves are estimated at 187,000 tonnes by the World Gold Council. That puts the total value at around $7.7 Trillion.

How could something overtake the value of almost all the fiat currencies or the even the all the gold reserves on the face of the Earth?

Let's go further...(No pun intended )

If Ripple at $1 was to one day hit $1,000, even at the current 35 Billion released, that would mean it would have a market capitalization of $35 Trillion!

The national US debt currently stands at $20 Trillion by comparison.

Does anyone really believe that Ripple would be worth nearly twice the current US debt level?

Some say that $1,000 is absurd and Ripple would never go that high....

But remember Bitcoin first traded in 2010 for $1 and went to over $20,000.... So why can't Ripple or any other Altcoin do the same?

Remember ALL Ripple has been "pre-mined" unlike Bitcoin.

Ripple has locked 55 billion (55% of the total possible supply) into a series of escrows. These escrows are on the ledger itself and the ledger mechanics, enforced by consensus, control the release of the XRP.

It will be released at one billion Ripple each month over the next 55 months.
So that's less than 5 years.

Let's say Ripple hit $1,000 on the total 100 Billion to be released....

That would give it a total market value of $100 Trillion!

$100 Trillion is more than the entirety of all the nominal value in earth's economy... This is simply not going to happen guys!

And don't forget, we have not yet taken into consideration the other 100 or so Cryptocurrencies and their total market capitalization into the equation based on growth.

The gains we are currently seeing with Altcoins is not physically possible nor sustainable in the future.

I'll admit I've made money investing in Altcoins, but I realize this unsustainable pyramid scheme cannot go on forever.

My advice is to make money while you can in the short term because it is not a long-term investment by any means.

If in the future the bulk of Cryptocurrencies crash leaving a few still standing, you will see a GFC a magnitude of times bigger than the Great Depression of 1929 - 1939 and will make grown men who drive Ford GT's cry and wish they were never born... Life will be so tough

[Trump]

More exchanges have halted BTC trading.

[Lukeyson]

Its xmas time. People are cashing in to buy presents to keep up appearances lol. New year will see a few cryptos breakaway and skyrocket

[aussiblue]

No current currency is backed by gold any more. fractional reserve banking wouldn't work requiring actual gold (or insert shiny object here) per $ in the economy.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/a...by-gold-2012-3

Lebanon is an exception. According to Banque du Liban statistics, the value of Lebanon’s gold holdings is equivalent to nearly 50% of the country’s money supply. To boot, Lebanese banks tend to have very high liquidity ratios and are willing to open accounts for most nationalities.

The problem with Lebanon is that the country is deep in debt– well over 100% of GDP.